NO MORE OVERNIGHT STAYS IN SCARBOROUGH

[Fazerloz]

Oi, enough with the facts already Chris!

Ok I've done.

 

[Fisherman]

I'd agree with the council is (or SHOULD) be there to serve it's constituents and tax payers ...

Issue for me is IF I lived in Scarborough ...would I want MY taxes spent on providing facilities for visiting motorhomes, that even as a motorhome owner I can see that they possibly don't spend a great deal locally .
I can also see that a great line of them around the marine drive is detrimental to the locality .
And beleive me I've driven past both in the motorhome and car and it looks like something from the NEC when the motorhome show is on ...
Some with BBQs going and even the odd fire pit ablaze,awnings out and chairs etc deployed .
Perhaps IF folks could be trusted to just park AND do so in small numbers we wouldn't face barrages of complaints ...sadly 'some' folks cannot manage to act in a civilised manner .

Whichever way you look at it a small number of folks has now been swelled by the promotion of "wild camping" in the media and on the Internet ...to the point of us being viewed as a epidemic in certain honeypot areas ....
And councils don't want to OR can't afford to deal with that in a manner that suits us ...
However they will deal with it in a cost effective way to their complaining constuents by just putting barriers up etc.

It's a shame BUT when you get actions like at one of my fave low key spots at the back of RAF valley on Anglesey that was enjoyed by locals and visitors for years ...

The armed RAF guards from Valley used to drive around the perimeter every now and again
and we're always happy and often would chat and share a brew and a biscuit ...

Until one weekend some entitled mouth breathing knob parked accross the emergency access gate to the airfield and refused to move even when asked nicely ...

So now there's a huge steel gate accross the access to the whole area stopping even the locals driving down to the area to walk their dogs .
And to be honest I can't blame them .

And most if not all of what you report could have been avoided by putting in place the appropriate measures.
I know we have idiots amongst us, I have seen them lots of times.
We no longer go to certain places in the warmer months because of them.
We used to love a night in Elie in the warmer months, but we only go from November to March now.
And we apply the same rule to other locations.
Every group of people have the same idiots, we are not alone there.

With regards to costs, policing these new limitations will involve some expense.

And credit to Scarborough they at least still allow daytime parking.

But lets agree to disagree, I fully respect your views.

 

[Rolyan57]

Usually when these accusations and claims have been made in the past by councils when a freedom of information request for a list of complaints has been made there are usually none or only 1 or 2 and councils are simply lying about the number of complaints. It has been discussed many times in the past here.

Again you state "They’ve looked at the cost of that and decided it’s not worth it for the small percentage income we’ll bring" as fact, Just because you state something as fact doesn't make it so, when it is just an assumption. Your post #61 in reply to my suggestion says "I agree, but I suspect the council have looked at the cost of introducing"
In reality it would seem you simply do not know.

My post #42 would address most of that.

Correct, it’s my assumption. To the best of my knowledge no one in this group is on Scarborough Council, so we are all making assumptions based on knowledge, experience, logic etc. You, me, everyone. You have no knowledge, the same as everyone. You’re not in possession of all the facts. We’re just stating our opinions, our beliefs. That’s often how debates work.

It’s easy to dismiss all stories of complaints, anti social behaviour and concerns by the emergency services as fabrications and lies, or gross exaggerations. That’s one opinion, but not one I share. In fact I think it gets in the way of progress if that is one’s starting position.

Based on the above, I can understand why the council has decided to stop this. They are doing what they think is best for the local taxpayers and community. Obviously those who think it’s a conspiracy will have a different opinion, and that’s fine. I’m interested in your opinion, I just disagree with it and have a different one.

 

[Fisherman]

Ok I've done.

Yer no gettin aff that easy

 

[Rolyan57]

I'd agree with the council is (or SHOULD) be there to serve it's constituents and tax payers ...

Issue for me is IF I lived in Scarborough ...would I want MY taxes spent on providing facilities for visiting motorhomes, that even as a motorhome owner I can see that they possibly don't spend a great deal locally .
I can also see that a great line of them around the marine drive is detrimental to the locality .
And beleive me I've driven past both in the motorhome and car and it looks like something from the NEC when the motorhome show is on ...
Some with BBQs going and even the odd fire pit ablaze,awnings out and chairs etc deployed .
Perhaps IF folks could be trusted to just park AND do so in small numbers we wouldn't face barrages of complaints ...sadly 'some' folks cannot manage to act in a civilised manner .

Whichever way you look at it a small number of folks has now been swelled by the promotion of "wild camping" in the media and on the Internet ...to the point of us being viewed as a epidemic in certain honeypot areas ....
And councils don't want to OR can't afford to deal with that in a manner that suits us ...
However they will deal with it in a cost effective way to their complaining constuents by just putting barriers up etc.

It's a shame BUT when you get actions like at one of my fave low key spots at the back of RAF valley on Anglesey that was enjoyed by locals and visitors for years ...

The armed RAF guards from Valley used to drive around the perimeter every now and again
and we're always happy and often would chat and share a brew and a biscuit ...

Until one weekend some entitled mouth breathing knob parked accross the emergency access gate to the airfield and refused to move even when asked nicely ...

So now there's a huge steel gate accross the access to the whole area stopping even the locals driving down to the area to walk their dogs .
And to be honest I can't blame them .

Exactly. We’ve seen it happen lots of times and I’m afraid there’s more to come.

Look at Helmsley, a perfect stopover, lost to idiots. I think Skipton will go the same way eventually, with the council saying that we can’t be trusted to follow the rules, so it will just be banned. I can see the same happening at Boroughbridge.

All these councils are doing what they think is right for the local taxpayers, but it doesn’t suit us.

 

[mistericeman]

Usually when these accusations and claims have been made in the past by councils when a freedom of information request for a list of complaints has been made there are usually none or only 1 or 2 and councils are simply lying about the number of complaints. It has been discussed many times in the past here.

Again you state "They’ve looked at the cost of that and decided it’s not worth it for the small percentage income we’ll bring" as fact, Just because you state something as fact doesn't make it so, when it is just an assumption. Your post #61 in reply to my suggestion says "I agree, but I suspect the council have looked at the cost of introducing"
In reality it would seem you simply do not know.

My post #42 would address most of that.

I'd agree with that ....as I said earlier a small regulated number of well behaved motorhomers/campers would likely not have a negative impact ....

Sadly though unless enforcement was strictly applied folks WILL take the mick .

Bbqs blazing/fire pits lit/awnings etc all around (yes I've seen all the above at Scarborough)

Some folks will just spoil it and the council don't want to spend on enforcing and regulating the rules for the small returns ....it's easier and cheaper to just ban it or barrier it ...
Thus solving local residents issues at a low cost .

And Again I'm afraid I can't for a second blame them for doing it .

 

[alcam]

Correct, it’s my assumption. To the best of my knowledge no one in this group is on Scarborough Council, so we are all making assumptions based on knowledge, experience, logic etc. You, me, everyone. You have no knowledge, the same as everyone. You’re not in possession of all the facts. We’re just stating our opinions, our beliefs. That’s often how debates work.

It’s easy to dismiss all stories of complaints, anti social behaviour and concerns by the emergency services as fabrications and lies, or gross exaggerations. That’s one opinion, but not one I share. In fact I think it gets in the way of progress if that is one’s starting position.

Based on the above, I can understand why the council has decided to stop this. They are doing what they think is best for the local taxpayers and community. Obviously those who think it’s a conspiracy will have a different opinion, and that’s fine. I’m interested in your opinion, I just disagree with it and have a different one.

Yea lots of this bad behaviour , rule breaking could be easily (and profitably) policed short term . Long term word would get round .

 

[barryd]

Exactly. We’ve seen it happen lots of times and I’m afraid there’s more to come.

Look at Helmsley, a perfect stopover, lost to idiots. I think Skipton will go the same way eventually, with the council saying that we can’t be trusted to follow the rules, so it will just be banned. I can see the same happening at Boroughbridge.

All these councils are doing what they think is right for the local taxpayers, but it doesn’t suit us.

Helmsley was a crying shame. I remember being surprised in the first place that they did it and impressed considering how popular and how busy it gets. We ruined that for ourselves (present company accepted). We are only as good as our lowest common denominator sadly.

It's not just here of course. I've seen it happen in France on Aires. The Aire is full but they will still come and cram in rather than just accept it's full and move on. Same applies to wild spots. Most of us on here I would like to think would move along if a spot was over subscribed but many actually see it as a good thing and will cram in.

I've all but given up in the UK and just use CL sites apart from some select places in Scotland and the lakes.

 

[Rolyan57]

Yea lots of this bad behaviour , rule breaking could be easily (and profitably) policed short term . Long term word would get round .

I suspect the council thinks that when the monitoring and enforcement stopped the behaviour would return. I tend to agree with them. We do seem to be particularly bad at voluntarily following rules and regs.

So they then think that it will require continuous monitoring and enforcement, which is simply not worth it to them.

 

[mistericeman]

Helmsley was a crying shame. I remember being surprised in the first place that they did it and impressed considering how popular and how busy it gets. We ruined that for ourselves (present company accepted). We are only as good as our lowest common denominator sadly.

It's not just here of course. I've seen it happen in France on Aires. The Aire is full but they will still come and cram in rather than just accept it's full and move on. Same applies to wild spots. Most of us on here I would like to think would move along if a spot was over subscribed but many actually see it as a good thing and will cram in.

I've all but given up in the UK and just use CL sites apart from some select places in Scotland and the lakes.

Same here ....
We have a long list of fave CL spots and small sites where we are often the only ones there ...
I used to love finding quiet spots in out of the way places where we were miles from anywhere ...AND anyone .

Sadly that's become harder and harder to do now with stuff plastered all over the net ...
And frankly I'd rather pay for somewhere I'm happy to stay with facilities and no chance of someone knocking on the door/parking right next to me and being able to fully relax and enjoy myself ....

The thought of parking in a council carpark with 20 other vans just leaves me cold

even at £5 a night .

 

[Rolyan57]

Same here ....
We have a long list of fave CL spots and small sites where we are often the only ones there ...
I used to love finding quiet spots in out of the way places where we were miles from anywhere ...AND anyone .

Sadly that's become harder and harder to do now with stuff plastered all over the net ...
And frankly I'd rather pay for somewhere I'm happy to stay with facilities and no chance of someone knocking on the door/parking right next to me and being able to fully relax and enjoy myself ....

The thought of parking in a council carpark with 20 other vans just leaves me cold

even at £5 a night .

Same here. I’ve a few favourites, and they all follow the same style. Out of the way, quiet, often no other vans, a bit of hardstanding, EHU if I want it, £15. My cheapest CL is £7, or £5 Aires.

People have been sold on this ‘dream’ of car parks etc crammed in like sardines and I can’t think of much worse.

 

[mistericeman]

Same here. I’ve a few favourites, and they all follow the same style. Out of the way, quiet, often no other vans, a bit of hardstanding, EHU if I want it, £15. My cheapest CL is £7, or £5 Aires.

People have been sold on this ‘dream’ of car parks etc crammed in like sardines and I can’t think of much worse.

May BANK holiday weekend ....we had this place to ourselves

£10 per night ....

 

[Rolyan57]

I feel sorry for all those newbies who believed the salesman’s hype about how campsites are really expensive and how they can stay anywhere.

Here’s one of my favourites, £7…

 

[Robmac]

The thought of parking in a council carpark with 20 other vans just leaves me cold

even at £5 a night .

Same here. I’ve a few favourites, and they all follow the same style. Out of the way, quiet, often no other vans, a bit of hardstanding, EHU if I want it, £15. My cheapest CL is £7, or £5 Aires.

People have been sold on this ‘dream’ of car parks etc crammed in like sardines and I can’t think of much worse.

I'll agree with you both on that and for that very reason I would love to see more car parks and Aires available to those who enjoy such places, it would free up some of the places I prefer.

What I don't agree with is a group being vilified for the actions of an admittedly growing minority. Unfortunately those that be in charge seem to always punish the majority in many walks of lives whether it be to do with camping or car theft or burglaries when in fact a few really draconian measures could put a stop to a lot of it overnight, it really is that simple.

Burgle a house - 6 months in solitary confinement, no TV, phone, games machine or any other privileges, Fly Tipping - confiscation of vehicle and £10,000 fine each for everyone in the vehicle, Joy riding - 5 year driving ban, (same for using a mobile whilst driving), Awning out in a car park - castration and £1000 fine. Etc. Etc. Etc.

But No! we just pussyfoot around these issues and let it carry on. Of course it will always be so.

 

[Fisherman]

I'll agree with you both on that and for that very reason I would love to see more car parks and Aires available to those who enjoy such places, it would free up some of the places I prefer.

What I don't agree with is a group being vilified for the actions of an admittedly growing minority. Unfortunately those that be in charge seem to always punish the majority in many walks of lives whether it be to do with camping or car theft or burglaries when in fact a few really draconian measures could put a stop to a lot of it overnight, it really is that simple.

Burgle a house - 6 months in solitary confinement, no TV, phone, games machine or any other privileges, Fly Tipping - confiscation of vehicle and £10,000 fine each for everyone in the vehicle, Joy riding - 5 year driving ban, (same for using a mobile whilst driving), Awning out in a car park - castration and £1000 fine. Etc. Etc. Etc.

But No! we just pussyfoot around these issues and let it carry on. Of course it will always be so.

I was ok up to the castration bit, put my right of Swedish meatballs I was having for lunch.

 

[alcam]

I suspect the council thinks that when the monitoring and enforcement stopped the behaviour would return. I tend to agree with them. We do seem to be particularly bad at voluntarily following rules and regs.

So they then think that it will require continuous monitoring and enforcement, which is simply not worth it to them.

Think it would, like much of human behaviour , go in cycles .
Clamp down again , lots of tickets , self financing

 

[Rolyan57]

I'll agree with you both on that and for that very reason I would love to see more car parks and Aires available to those who enjoy such places, it would free up some of the places I prefer.

What I don't agree with is a group being vilified for the actions of an admittedly growing minority. Unfortunately those that be in charge seem to always punish the majority in many walks of lives whether it be to do with camping or car theft or burglaries when in fact a few really draconian measures could put a stop to a lot of it overnight, it really is that simple.

Burgle a house - 6 months in solitary confinement, no TV, phone, games machine or any other privileges, Fly Tipping - confiscation of vehicle and £10,000 fine each for everyone in the vehicle, Joy riding - 5 year driving ban, (same for using a mobile whilst driving), Awning out in a car park - castration and £1000 fine. Etc. Etc. Etc.

But No! we just pussyfoot around these issues and let it carry on. Of course it will always be so.

Yep, I agree with your feelings there. The annoying thing is, if a few acted a little more sensibly and moved on when packed out, we would see less of this.

I heard the other day that Whitby is now clamping down. That’s another one that was just waiting to happen.

 

[Robmac]

Yep, I agree with your feelings there. The annoying thing is, if a few acted a little more sensibly and moved on when packed out, we would see less of this.

I heard the other day that Whitby is now clamping down. That’s another one that was just waiting to happen.

Another place I wouldn't go to to be honest. But for those that do, good luck...

 

[Rolyan57]

Think it would, like much of human behaviour , go in cycles .
Clamp down again , lots of tickets , self financing

Very possibly. It’s just a shame that we’re seen as bringing in so little value (financial or otherwise) that it’s simply not worth the hassle.

 

[Rolyan57]

Another place I wouldn't go to to be honest. But for those that do, good luck...

The annoying thing is when motorhomers deliberately and knowingly break the rules, resulting in daytime parking being stopped as well. I enjoy visiting that coast (e.g. I’ll still be visiting Scarborough) but it’s not helped when barriers and other enforcement actions stop daytime parking, simply because some ignored the no overnighting rules.