No Gaslow or Health & Safety vigilantes.REFILLING PROPANE

[Kontiki]

I agree the refillable systems initial outlay isn't cheap, but you could always get one of the adapters off ebay for filling the the normal propane bottles. always make sure the bottle is empty then you can safely re-fill it to the specified weight. If you are worried about over filling then just put a bit less in, I work on 1 kg = 2 litres (from memory I think 1 litre = .504 kg) so on a 6 kg bottle it should be about 11.9 litres so just stick in 11 litres.

I have a Countrywide account where I have a key I can get gas from any of their LPG filling points (problem is they aren't all over the country but most are not by a shop or anything they are just self service) they have my card details & they take the cash direct from my bank. I was able to tell them I am only using it for domestic use & don't pay the fuel vat rate. It costs nothing to sign up & you get a booklet listing the filling points (if anybody's interested I have a leaflet somewhere & I think I get something if you sign up if you put my details in for referring )

 

[defitzi]

interesting and

Most interesting and betimes, very very funny was this but returning to sanity France( Belge too) and I think Germany-probably many others countries by now are fast introducing plastic gas bottles (11/50kg as opposed to the old steel 13.50). They have a guage built in so you can see just how much gas is used/left to use-maybe not the last drop but enough for a timely warning of impending empty.
There are now new 7.5 bottles (various shapes) but the best I think is th cube-fits neatly most spots. These 7.5s are interchangeable with the 13.56s- very useful.
So nowadays I carry one 13.5 connected and a cube in case it runs out before i can buy a refill-which has never hapened such is th universal availibility of gas in France.
Another quick point : it note all that expensive to fit a guage to the gaspipe!
Universal regulators which attach to all proprietory bottles, will work with either size.
for comparison,the biggest camping gaz is only 2.5 -ok for the BBQ or whatever but hugely expensive to but and lots and lots more expensive than the ordinary domestic bottles to refil.

 

[biggirafe]

If liquid gas was -45 degrees you wouldn't be able to touch the bottle, it's only when you take gas off it needs heat to vaporize that is why the liquid part of the bottle becomes cooler. Check the temperature of any bottle left standing for some time & there would no or virtually very little. Just look at a bottle connected up to one of those gas heaters & you will see ice on the side.

BTW the hole I drilled was a number 60 drill 1mm just slightly larger than the nylon cord I used, LPG is heavier than air & the bottom of the gas locker has a mesh covered drop out hole of about 1.5" x 4".

Hi Mate
Don't wanna open an old argument but I believe that Maingate is correct on this point, if you have drilled a hole in your gas locker you may have negated your insurance no matter how small the hole. Not 100% but I also believe that there are legalalities about interior gas storage and it being sealed other than a drain at the bottom.

Yes gas will drain out though the gas drain hole in the bottom but in a fire or explosive situation the heat and gas will jet out through any extra holes drilled small or otherwise and if in the top will jet into your habitation area.

Even if it was a pipe failure I can imagine that the drain holes at the bottom may not be able to evacuate the gas quick enough and gas would escape into the hab area.

With my refilable I have a top gauge which you can't easily see, I glued a 45 degree angle onto the top of the locker and then stuck a plastic mirror onto this, I can now just open the door and see the gauge

 

[lebesset]

it's funny how you read tales of doom and gloom from people who have never done something
I have decanted butane many times in africa , [propane is neither available nor necessary so I can't say ], certainly not as dangerous as taking a can of petrol and pouring it into your tank

but in spain , for more than 30 years ,taxi's legally ran on propane by putting a standard bottle on it's side in the boot and connecting it to the vapouriser under the bonnet ; I talked to an installer in barcelona years ago [ catalan speaker ] who told me that there was never an accident recorded during that time

now you will read in these forums [ or should it be fora ? ]all sorts of things

don't fill your own bottles , dangerous might be filled above 80% [ calor fill up to 87% they say ] ...agreed , for anyone who doesn't know their 2 times table

must not let the gas touch the valve , damages it ......every gas bottle filling station fills through the valve

etc

all gas equipment is designed by law to be have a defined life [ years ] when contacted by lp gasses ..provide you use the correct material and ensure bottles are connected in a leak proof manner you can do this ..the bottom bottle will part fill quickly ...thereafter it wil be painfully slow to drip through

but with bottles now so easily and cheaply available around europe it escapes me why you would want to do this ....uk gas is hugely expensive

 

[biggirafe]

don't fill your own bottles , dangerous might be filled above 80% [ calor fill up to 87% they say ] ...agreed , for anyone who doesn't know their 2 times table

Like you when I was in the forces we did all sorts of things out of nessesity and we got away with it, but only a fool would do these things if he had another safer choice, we have choices now, refillable systems that are cheap and easy to fit.

No one minds the educated sensible people who can fill their own bottles safley and correctly but when the tool can be bought by anyone on ebay without restrictions or training then I don't want to be parked by a numpty who has bought a refill valve from ebay and has no idea of how to fill a bottle corretly and safley.

I would certalinly not be happy to find out my neighbour was decanting lpg from large tanks into small ones, in fact I would report him for it.

Its not happened yet but it will if enough people buy the tools eventually someone will be killed. Sadly until such a time it will not be outlawed lets just hope they only kill themselves and not others or children.

Incoming

 

[Hussar]

We decant part cylinders of propane and butane in the military. Laying the cylinders horizontal is not generally a problem. Gravity will not have much effect. What you need is a pneumetic pump (intrinsically safe). Using a pump allows you to overcome the equalisation of pressure barrier, as the fuller of the two cylinders WILL always flow into the emptier thus equalising.

 

[Annsman]

Having been to a few fires where a LPG cylinder has exploded and had two colleages quite badly burned from the resultant fire ball from a 12KG cylinder popping, could anyone considering doing this suicidal act please publish their location so then I can stay well away.

The cost of refilling cylinders with the correct equipment is cheap enough to do without risking yourself, anyone in your van or within a 200 metre radius. You really are dicing with death here people. You will only make one mistake!

 

[Belgian]

Could all self-fillers please have their necrology and testament fillded in, so we could attend the funeral in a decent way

 

[lebesset]

so you have been to a number of fires where cylinders exploded
what has tthat got to do with the subject at hand , refilling cylinders ?

so there is a fire , and there are gas cylinders , and they explode

so?

I have seen petrol tanks explode on a car set on fire ...better not to put petrol in the tank therefore ?

 

[John H]

it's funny how you read tales of doom and gloom from people who have never done something

Let me see, now.......I've never stuck a six inch nail in my head, never jumped out of a plane without a parachute, never stuck my hand in a fire, never swallowed bleach and never shot myself in the foot. By my reckoning, lebesset you have just done one of those things. Happy travels but if you are going to muck around with gas cylinders make sure I'm not near at the time or you might experience one of the others as well!!!!!

 

[lebesset]

there's the difference
you reckon
I know ...25 years experience

 

[Annsman]

so you have been to a number of fires where cylinders exploded
what has tthat got to do with the subject at hand , refilling cylinders ?

so there is a fire , and there are gas cylinders , and they explode

so?

I have seen petrol tanks explode on a car set on fire ...better not to put petrol in the tank therefore ?

Yet in 32 years as a firefighter I've never seen a petrol tank on a car explode! Apart from on the telly. I've been to loads of car fires, most of them deliberately ignited. I've seen petrol tanks on fire through the filler cap using a burning rag stuffed in it, from a hole put in it and the petrol trail ignited, I've seen the petrol vapour cloud ignite around a leaking petrol tank, but never seen one actually explode! But I have seen LPG cylinders explode and when they do there isn't much left around it. Neither do they need to be subjected to heat. The chemical reaction of some LPG gases, including Propane and Butane, when a cylinder is dropped from only a small height can be enough to set off a reaction inside the cylinder and cause it to explode.

As I say it's a mistake you'll only make once and I'm just trying to dissuade someone from doing something incredibly stupid and unnesessary just to save a few quid now and again, so I do think it has something to do with the topic, and from the number of posts agreeing with my take on it, so do other people. But hey ho, life's too short to argue

 

[lebesset]

well .
, last word from me
I ran lpg prowered vehicles for more than 20 years
the method used to fill gas bottles is identical with that used to fill any other lpg tank , except it is a little safer because it doesn't reply on a device to stop it overfilling ...and I had 3 failures of that device during my lpg days

 

[biggirafe]

Just out of interest, to whom and for what?

Well I don't know if 'decanting' is illegal in itself without a licence but I'm confident that evironmental health would certainly take a dim view of someone carrying out anything that could be a danger to other members of the public and their neighbours around them.

No one who wasn't aleady and advocate has been convinced in this thread that its a safe practice and we would be the first to save a few quid if it was so I can't see a local goventment eo accepting its a safe thing to do

 

[derekfaeberwick]

Just filled up my 13 kg bottle again, total ripoff , £16 50 odd.

 

[vwalan]

hi, just got back from winter trip filled about 7or 8 bottles in spain and portugal at the pumps. cheaper in spain to exchange spanish bottle 11euro. some dont want spanish bottle so fill their englishbottle . been filling bottles for over 30 years,even have a hand operated lpg pump for when in distant countries. if gas can be smelt while filling then its being done wrong .the idea is to put gas into the other bottle not let it into the air. did get asked to fill several bottles with a slightly different size to the calor clip on. seems its getting a common size in france .if in doubt dont do it. with out the pump its hard to get the last few litres out so use it in the van then hand the empty back and get your deposit back if in other counties. there should be no more gas escapeing than chaging a bottle ,do it with care and its no more dangerous than filling a car with petrol. cheers alan,

 

[Deleted member 3802]

has anybody bought an adaptor off ebay for filling the propane bottles ? and want to sell it or have contact details for supplier as they are no longer on ebay
thanx

p.s. pm me please

 

[n8rbos]

this all reminds me of when i used to install domestic gas (i'm a certified plumber/htg eng. allegedly!!!!) i did the gas w/o having papers as is req'd to have now! for all different installations eg.. just coz someone qual'd to install /service fire not so for a boiler and so on.anyway as i say i had no papers, job done as taught to me, quals come in, many thousands to qualify and keep updated!! latest figures 7000 illegal fitters in scotland alone!don't mean they dangerous just not got bits of paper.i knew/know fitters who i would'nt trust on my gas!and they qualified! i/you can still go to b&q to get gas bits to do our own work!many do w/o probs. point i'm trying to make is if you respect what you messin' with illegal or not then should have no probs!! experience over paper quals anyday

me tho' i'm happy exchanging bottles

 

[lebesset]

if it is so dangerous to fill bottles without a 80% valve , how come people like calor are allowed to do it? they use a system fall less accurate than a lpg pump , and don't even screw on the fittings , just a push fit

 

[biggirafe]

if it is so dangerous to fill bottles without a 80% valve , how come people like calor are allowed to do it? they use a system fall less accurate than a lpg pump , and don't even screw on the fittings , just a push fit

They weigh the bottles and then fill em, a very accurate system.

The pump in the petrol station will continue to fill the bottle until its full, I guess thats pretty accurate 'Its 100% full'