New Highway Code rules.

I think we need to be aware of the idiocy out there, we all use the roads and all that is needed is common sense and the knowledge that some people are not aware of others, and have different levels of competency or sense of danger.
There are idiots everywhere, but you must have noticed all the other cyclists not behaving like that Dork.
If he tried that up here he would find himself lying in a gutter wondering what had happened to him.
Seriously though in my opinion (thats worth nout) what he was doing when a proper cycle lane was available should be illegal.
But sadly many cycle lanes are rough, and cars are parked on them.
 
Bill ive Noticed a different mind set in different parts of the country he might get away with that type of crap in London or down south but I think he would get ragged dolled off that bike if he tried that £$%^ too many times in a city like Glasgow or say Liverpool. Bikes in London have always been in conflict with other road users and they have this aggression that they have an entitlement of some kind.
I have my wife sitting next to me for such events Wully. She has a habit of "accidentally" opening the door when passing Dorks like that.
Only problem is I know what size of mortgage, shoe size, and how many kids the local bodywork repair guy has:)
 
There are the other new rules coming into force too which might make the cyclist/pedestrian ones seem sensible.

Take the yellow box rules in our town centre there is a huge one which I'm sure flouts the rules, the picture is out of date as the boxes extend more now, which is fair enough but there are two sets of lights to get through and usually a large volume of traffic the lights are not in sync so you move forward and if there is anything large in front of you you cannot see the lights at all, so you have to either wait and get beeped at or follow the vehicle in front you then end up in the yellow box as the lights change out of sight, this is probably not the only town where this happens, part of the issue is the bus station exit is right in the centre of the town on this road.

North%20street%20boxes.JPG
 
I agree H. I'm actually quite a calm driver these days. I do worry about this 'automatically culpable' thing that is being hinted at though, surely every accident should be judged on evidence.

I have a dash cam, may buy one for the rear of the car now as well though.
I think you’ll find that’s pretty much the case in Holland. It doesn’t, however, mean you will be automatically to blame. You just need to prove you aren’t. I worked in motor claims, in Amsterdam, for a British ins company some 40 years ago.

Of all the cases involving a motorist and a cyclist (or pedestrian) I dealt with, I don’t recall a single one where the burden of proof was shifted to them.

It not far removed from the position where you run into the rear of the vehicle in front of you it is?
 
Weird innit that in Europe cyclists, pedestrians and vehicles mix vey readily, even in major cities, yet we in the UK seem always to be at war with each other?

Cheers

H
Absolutely. It’s almost as though the British motorist thinks they have some special rights to the public highway.
 
I think you’ll find that’s pretty much the case in Holland. It doesn’t, however, mean you will be automatically to blame. You just need to prove you aren’t. I worked in motor claims, in Amsterdam, for a British ins company some 40 years ago.

Of all the cases involving a motorist and a cyclist (or pedestrian) I dealt with, I don’t recall a single one where the burden of proof was shifted to them.

It not far removed from the position where you run into the rear of the vehicle in front of you it is?
There's long been a campaign for UK to mirror the "Strict Liability" law of the Netherlands. Over there, in any collision between parties the least vulnerable is presumed 100% at fault unless it can be proved that the more vulnerable was to blame. The 'hierarchy of road users' is one step towards that and I foresee an increase in "crash for cash" incidents, such as the clips on the 'net showing cyclists and motorcyclists throwing their steed backwards into the front of a car and then jumping on the bonnet. Also consider how the incident below reported in 2018 would now be viewed in the absence of third party dashcam footage even though the cyclist jumped a red light and ran into the car rather than the car running into the cyclist.

 
There's long been a campaign for UK to mirror the "Strict Liability" law of the Netherlands. Over there, in any collision between parties the least vulnerable is presumed 100% at fault unless it can be proved that the more vulnerable was to blame. The 'hierarchy of road users' is one step towards that and I foresee an increase in "crash for cash" incidents, such as the clips on the 'net showing cyclists and motorcyclists throwing their steed backwards into the front of a car and then jumping on the bonnet. Also consider how the incident below reported in 2018 would now be viewed in the absence of third party dashcam footage even though the cyclist jumped a red light and ran into the car rather than the car running into the cyclist.

Yes - as the driver of a large vehicle, I’d advise you to be very aware of lots of motorists attempting to scam you. Meanwhile, im a bit short of cash so i think I’ll go and do a ‘crash for cash’ with my bike. Or perhaps walk into the side of a car. Meanwhile, in the real world, yeh, get your dash cam.

Suppose the cyclist in your scenario was a car? How would you view that same scenario?

Funnily enough, we never had one single real or suspected’crash for cash’ in the 3 years I worked in motor claims in Holland. I especially liked the one where the Brit motorist said they were stationary. On the tram line. And were hit by a tram.
 
10 years + ago, we had a local chap who rode his bike holding a stick as a spacer in his right hand.
Don't have a problem with any road user provided they use a bit of common sense and aren't on a crusade. One thing that does worry me is if a pedestrian walks into the road using their mobile. I have seen it happen on a crossing, young woman with a pushchair and a walking tot....never lifted her eyes off her phone.
 
10 years + ago, we had a local chap who rode his bike holding a stick as a spacer in his right hand.
Don't have a problem with any road user provided they use a bit of common sense and aren't on a crusade. One thing that does worry me is if a pedestrian walks into the road using their mobile. I have seen it happen on a crossing, young woman with a pushchair and a walking tot....never lifted her eyes off her phone.
You lot are far to nice in Yorkshire, up here he would have developed a tail, and he would not be wagging it, and sitting on his bike would be impossible.:D
 
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Yes - as the driver of a large vehicle, I’d advise you to be very aware of lots of motorists attempting to scam you. Meanwhile, im a bit short of cash so i think I’ll go and do a ‘crash for cash’ with my bike. Or perhaps walk into the side of a car. Meanwhile, in the real world, yeh, get your dash cam.
Unless it was side-facing, the a dash cam in the car the cyclist hit would not have helped -- and you can bet your last quid that the cyclist would have claimed it was the car rather than she who jumped the lights and with strict liability and nothing to prove the driver was in the right, the motorist would have been deemed to blame.
Suppose the cyclist in your scenario was a car? How would you view that same scenario?
See above -- with nothing to prove who was at fault, I'd have viewed it as both drivers failing to exercise due care and attention. The driver of the 'bicycle' should have paid attention to their surroundings and noted the other start to move and also the driver starting to move on green should have checked for conflict. This is basic COAST. However, with evidence of the traffic light status, I'd have said the driver of the 'bicycle' was at fault.
Funnily enough, we never had one single real or suspected’crash for cash’ in the 3 years I worked in motor claims in Holland. I especially liked the on e where the Brit motorist said they were stationary. On the tram line. And were hit by a tram.
I guess that you were either lucky or the strict liability law allowed every "crash for cash" to succeed. As I wrote above, the 'net is littered with incidents, including one where a cyclist deliberately scratched the side of a stationary car, "fell over" then demanded the motorists' insurance details. I wasn't able to find that one after a few minutes searching, but here's some more to get along with that show the danger/idiocy of "strict liability":
and finally one from the Netherlands -- you'll have to click the link as embedding isn't allowed -- (index [3:15] is a potential C4C, but there's a lot more there to show that Dutch cyclists aren't perhaps as blameless as some make out)
 
I'm sorry - I can't help but laugh! How anyone could suggest the motorist in the vid you posted showing a cyclist hitting the stationary car is anything other than to blame beggars belief. Seriously? Please don't try and argue that somehow, in Holland, the strict liability laws would render the cyclist guilt free? I did outline the important distinction. And no, we weren't lucky in GA in Amsterdam - no one was stupid enough to walk into or ride into a motor vehicle as a "crash for cash".

And you know, there were always plenty of witness statements. I loved reading them.

As to the Dutch "The Best of - - " - that's highly amusing. Shall I spend the rest of the day posting the well publicized antics of motorists on our roads? 5 minutes on F/bk reveals the extraordinary level of idiocy that people think they can get away with. Anyway - I'm taking the bike out shortly to see how many motorists I can annoy. I might even see if I can one to run into me just 'cause. I like hospitals, and our local is especially nice.
 
I'm sorry - I can't help but laugh! How anyone could suggest the motorist in the vid you posted showing a cyclist hitting the stationary car is anything other than to blame beggars belief. Seriously? Please don't try and argue that somehow, in Holland, the strict liability laws would render the cyclist guilt free? I did outline the important distinction. And no, we weren't lucky in GA in Amsterdam - no one was stupid enough to walk into or ride into a motor vehicle as a "crash for cash".

And you know, there were always plenty of witness statements. I loved reading them.

As to the Dutch "The Best of - - " - that's highly amusing. Shall I spend the rest of the day posting the well publicized antics of motorists on our roads? 5 minutes on F/bk reveals the extraordinary level of idiocy that people think they can get away with. Anyway - I'm taking the bike out shortly to see how many motorists I can annoy. I might even see if I can one to run into me just 'cause. I like hospitals, and our local is especially nice.
The facts are there for all to see. To many cyclists are killed on our roads. And no matter what the government tried to do, there would be folk lining up to find holes in it. It’s not perfect nothing can or will be, but if it saves some lives it has my support. Possibly things are different in Scotland, but I have far more issues with car drivers, than I have with cyclists. Sifting through the internet looking for dick head cyclists with chips on their shoulders behaving like muppets is utterly pointless. What this all comes down to is the laws of physics. When a large object moving faster hits a small item moving slower, we all know who suffers most. And most accidents involving cyclists are due to poor driving, sadly in some cases aggressive driving from folk who simply don’t like cyclists.
 
I'm sorry - I can't help but laugh! How anyone could suggest the motorist in the vid you posted showing a cyclist hitting the stationary car is anything other than to blame beggars belief. Seriously? Please don't try and argue that somehow, in Holland, the strict liability laws would render the cyclist guilt free? I did outline the important distinction. And no, we weren't lucky in GA in Amsterdam - no one was stupid enough to walk into or ride into a motor vehicle as a "crash for cash".

And you know, there were always plenty of witness statements. I loved reading them.

As to the Dutch "The Best of - - " - that's highly amusing. Shall I spend the rest of the day posting the well publicized antics of motorists on our roads? 5 minutes on F/bk reveals the extraordinary level of idiocy that people think they can get away with. Anyway - I'm taking the bike out shortly to see how many motorists I can annoy. I might even see if I can one to run into me just 'cause. I like hospitals, and our local is especially nice.
Sorry, but your denial that "crash for cash" is a problem is derisory. As for your comment, "How anyone could suggest the motorist in the vid you posted showing a cyclist hitting the stationary car is anything other than to blame beggars belief." -- Really? Seriously? A cyclist smashes into a parked car and it's the driver's fault? -- now that truly beggars belief. Given that the stationary car was facing oncoming traffic, its driver would have been to blame had it been moving. However, the camera footage proved that not to be the case and probably saved disingenuous claims from the cyclists. Note that I never said that strict liability would render cyclists 'guilt free'. However, in a collision between a cyclist and a motorist, the motorist is assumed at fault unless there is evidence to the contrary notwithstanding who is the guilty party.

Given that cycling has more than its share of militant, vigilante activists intent on condemning motorists, I'm sure you will have no problem finding footage of 'antics of motorists'. However, the attitude of such cyclists is exactly what gives cycling a bad name and helps turn motorists against cyclists in general IMO.
 
I don't fully understand the new rules but it looks like cyclists and pedestrians will be given priority in certain situations (such as cyclists undertaking near corners and pedestrians crossing the road).

I'm willing to be stood corrected, but it seems at first glance an ideal opportunity for a certain element of society to be looking at making a lot of money out of motorists insurance policies.
I don't fully understand the new rules but it looks like cyclists and pedestrians will be given priority in certain situations (such as cyclists undertaking near corners and pedestrians crossing the road).

I'm willing to be stood corrected, but it seems at first glance an ideal opportunity for a certain element of society to be looking at making a lot of money out of motorists insurance policies.
I've already noticed that these new changes have brought about more stupid behaviour from cyclists and pedestrians - cyclists and pedestrians using a mobile phone and crossing the road without looking, headphones in and therefore unable to hear approaching traffic, crossing the road without bothering to look - well I walk and I cycle but I sure as hell am not going to argue with a bloody juggernaut!
At sea the rules are that power gives way to sail - again are you going to argue with a tanker under way when you're sailing your dinghy? If you do, you are stupid!
 
The cynic in me sees this as just another way of pissing off the motorist which the powers that be seem to love at the moment.

Ironically, in these situations electric vehicles are probably the most dangerous due to their silence.
I drive a hybrid, all electric and hybrid vehicles are fitted with a "rumble" - but if your chatting on your phone or listening to loud music then you won't hear it!
However, I have to be honest I'm way more careful now when approaching horses etc as I am aware how quiet the car is.
 
I've already noticed that these new changes have brought about more stupid behaviour from cyclists and pedestrians - cyclists and pedestrians using a mobile phone and crossing the road without looking, headphones in and therefore unable to hear approaching traffic, crossing the road without bothering to look -
As (bad) luck would have it I've spent the last week driving into Cambridge, a city which is probably the cycling capital of UK, plus I live on a very popular cycle route, so since the rule change I've seen hundreds of cyclists, shock horror they seem unchanged, and are certainly not the evil morons described on this forum.
Just this morning I was driving towards our home, there was a group of cyclists in front of me, being just a few hundred yards from our drive I hung well back, but they still moved over in an attempt to let me past.
 
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At sea the rules are that power gives way to sail - again are you going to argue with a tanker under way when you're sailing your dinghy? If you do, you are stupid!
That's a common misconception and the rules are a lot more complex. A tanker constrained by draft is the 'stand-on' vessel in a conflict with a sailboat not so constrained and hence the sailboat must 'give-way'. For that, the rules require the 'stand-on' vessel to maintain course and speed unless it becomes apparent that the 'give-way' vessel isn't going to comply. (see https://www.i-capt.com/post/who-has-the-right-of-way)

However, it is somewhat difficult to maintain way when you have the remains of a sailboat fouling your propeller!
 
I've already noticed that these new changes have brought about more stupid behaviour from cyclists and pedestrians - cyclists and pedestrians using a mobile phone and crossing the road without looking, headphones in and therefore unable to hear approaching traffic, crossing the road without bothering to look - well I walk and I cycle but I sure as hell am not going to argue with a bloody juggernaut!
At sea the rules are that power gives way to sail - again are you going to argue with a tanker under way when you're sailing your dinghy? If you do, you are stupid!

The point I was trying to make is that certain people are willing to accept minor injuries as a way of making cash, it already happens with vehicles at the moment - this has been proven many times.

It would be fairly easy to pick a slow moving vehicle to step in front of, maybe just allowing the wing to barge you to one side and then exaggerating your injuries.
 
The point I was trying to make is that certain people are willing to accept minor injuries as a way of making cash, it already happens with vehicles at the moment - this has been proven many times.

It would be fairly easy to pick a slow moving vehicle to step in front of, maybe just allowing the wing to barge you to one side and then exaggerating your injuries.
How much could you make ?
Asking for a friend
 

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