Move to ban wilding in Devon

[barryd]

I have to agree with Barryd , I’ve never felt safer than driving in France it all seems so effortless with quieter roads.

One things for sure, its certainly safer out on the Scooter. The French seem more bike aware and of course where we go there is generally less traffic. Even in the towns and cities it seems safer. Germany not so much, they drive like us. Way too fast and in a hurry, plus its busier. People say Italians are reckless but thats not my experience but then we tend to be in Northern Italy usually in the mountains and everyone is on holiday.

 

[Tezza33]

I know how she feels I hate the left hand seat when being driven on the right hand side feels like every thing coming towards you is about to hit you.

Ours is LHD so Maggy has that problem in the UK

Its an absolute doddle over there until you return to England and hit the M20, M25 and M1 carnage.

I find that after driving in Europe for several months that I go around the Tesco exit roundabout on our return to Dover the wrong way, it is the angle of the junction that throws me because it appears to go right, I am OK if somebody is already on the roundabout

 

[st3v3]

I do plenty of convoy trips and I never stress about people keeping up.

Every year, years ago, used to lead a convoy from Bristol to Santa Pod ( Past Northampton.) Started off Swindon, Oxford, Bicester, MK, Newport Pagnel.

A sensible route, that went in the back way with less queues.

However, the fcukwits that couldn't keep up drove me nuts so we changed to 55mph M5, M42, M6, M1. Sooo much longer, but at least the dumbasses could actually get there the same day as the rest of us.....

 

[Fisherman]

You are regular visitors to Arran I seem to remember. Their roads are rubbish and the String road and Ross road can be a bit hairy. If you have survived them you have nothing to fear in most of Western Europe. Rural traffic in much of France is probably similar if not less to Arran. Mountain roads in the Alps and Pyrenees are excellent. You wont encounter much steeper than the "String" just longer. Its an absolute doddle over there until you return to England and hit the M20, M25 and M1 carnage.

Thanks Barry but as I said, it’s not me that’s the problem it’s my better half. I have driven worse roads than Arran. The Loch Lomond road past Tarbert is one of the worse. It’s narrow with sharp bends, busy, and you get a lot of HGVs and buses on it. I actually enjoy the challenge. I have driven to Applecross, that was probably the most challenging. Lots of single track roads etc.

 

[Robmac]

Every year, years ago, used to lead a convoy from Bristol to Santa Pod ( Past Northampton.) Started off Swindon, Oxford, Bicester, MK, Newport Pagnel.

A sensible route, that went in the back way with less queues.

However, the fcukwits that couldn't keep up drove me nuts so we changed to 55mph M5, M42, M6, M1. Sooo much longer, but at least the dumbasses could actually get there the same day as the rest of us.....

I still always use the first route between Bristol and home Steve it's a nice drive up the 420 from Swindon up to the M1 via Bicester, but then I am not in convoy.

The problem with using the M5, M42 etc. or even the M4, M25, M1 come to that is if you do hit problems it can delay you for a long, long time. Best done at night but quite busy even then.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

About 2-3(?) years ago we drove down to just north of London to view a van.
It was about 15 years since I'd last visited darn sarf, or anywhere near the Smoke.

The time gap was very revealing. I seem to remember posting about it on here?
@Trotter will probably remember because he commented on it at the time....

The M1 had been horrible going down.
Came back up the A14 for the van view location and it was exactly like Chris Rea's Road to Hell.
Major roadworks and mostly artics, vans, lorries, the odd car... nose to tail in a jam at least 7 miles (probably a lot longer than that, but I dived off onto a side route as soon as able).

TBH I was truly shocked, but not at all surprised.
All it told me was to carry on avoiding the South East of England & anywhere near London like the plague, if you excuse the tasteless pun!

Yup, this congested, septic isle...

It's over 20 years since I went anywhere overseas.
But right now I can't wait for a chance to be able to get across the Channel again, Schengen or no Schengen.

I don't care about any new rules and regulations, just be nice to escape the increasing UK congestion for a while and access some warmth and proper outdoor space!

 

[Trotter]

About 2-3(?) years ago we drove down to just north of London to view a van.
It was about 15 years since I'd last visited darn sarf, or anywhere near the Smoke.

The time gap was very revealing. I seem to remember posting about it on here?
@Trotter will probably remember because he commented on it at the time....

The M1 had been horrible going down.
Came back up the A14 for the van view location and it was exactly like Chris Rea's Road to Hell.
Major roadworks and mostly artics, vans, lorries, the odd car... nose to tail in a jam at least 7 miles (probably a lot longer than that, but I dived off onto a side route as soon as able).

TBH I was truly shocked, but not at all surprised.
All it told me was to carry on avoiding the South East of England & anywhere near London like the plague, if you excuse the tasteless pun!

Yup, this congested, septic isle...

It's over 20 years since I went anywhere overseas.
But right now I can't wait for a chance to be able to get across the Channel again, Schengen or no Schengen.

I don't care about any new rules and regulations, just be nice to escape the increasing UK congestion for a while and access some warmth and proper outdoor space!

Could say something about you going to play in your own street. But I'm to much of a gentleman.
Plus, I want to get away and be able to play in your street. Or somewhere close by. At least until we can get over the Channel again.

Anywhere within a 45 mile radius of London should be avoided. Don't know about south of the river. But on the north side, The A14 should be avoided east of the A1, to the west of Cambridge.
Anyone visiting London should be aware the LEZ reaches out to the North Circular Road A406. Costs me £15 to visit my sister, unless we park in Basing Way,and walk down to The Five Bells.
How I long to get back to rural France or Portugal. I'd even add Spain to that. Somewhere with a bit of space. And no traffic.

 

[barryd]

Thanks Barry but as I said, it’s not me that’s the problem it’s my better half. I have driven worse roads than Arran. The Loch Lomond road past Tarbert is one of the worse. It’s narrow with sharp bends, busy, and you get a lot of HGVs and buses on it. I actually enjoy the challenge. I have driven to Applecross, that was probably the most challenging. Lots of single track roads etc.

Yes, I meant to say your wife has nothing to fear if you have tackled those roads. Show her this thread!! Some of the roads, passes and hills in the UK are far hairier than anything you will find in France. Some of our passes have sections up to 25% gradient. Rarely found in Europe. 10% is usually the worse you will find but some of them go on for ever. Some say they are not keen on being the passenger on the left but Mrs D has never complained.

 

[clewless]

Its just some fuss kicked up by some parish council but does it reflect the views of many councils across the land? Hopefully not but it just raises more concerns that further clampdowns on wilding are likely no doubt using the new legislation supposedly to deter "travellers" to prevent us parking up and overnighting. They are even citing the pandemic as a reason to ban us, like we are somehow safer and the public are safer if we are herded onto campsites. Two things I want to do. Get a new van and bugger off back to Europe for as long as possible.

Calls for 'wild camping' ban on camper vans and motorhomes

"We do want to welcome visitors, but we want to do it safely.”

www.devonlive.com

I tried to raise this issue of wild camping being band a year ago, but was very disappointed by the response from members. Of course we all have differing views, but the overriding issue is the possibility of us all being caught up in the "Blunderbuss" legislation aimed at Travelers & Gypsy encampments. Our concern should be that the law may be so wide ranging that it will criminalise all wild camping. This should be a real concern to all members and going off on tangents just does not help the situation. If we (members of Wildcamping) can't or won't try to do anything, then lets pray that other groups are better organised and defeat this legislation on our behalf!

The full report by Cycling UK can be viewed at https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/criminalising-camping . If cyclists, ramblers, canoeists etc. are concerned about this, then we should be doubly so.

 

[Fisherman]

I tried to raise this issue of wild camping being band a year ago, but was very disappointed by the response from members. Of course we all have differing views, but the overriding issue is the possibility of us all being caught up in the "Blunderbuss" legislation aimed at Travelers & Gypsy encampments. Our concern should be that the law may be so wide ranging that it will criminalise all wild camping. This should be a real concern to all members and going off on tangents just does not help the situation. If we (members of Wildcamping) can't or won't try to do anything, then lets pray that other groups are better organised and defeat this legislation on our behalf!

The full report by British Cycling can be viewed at https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/criminalising-camping . If cyclists, ramblers, canoeists etc. are concerned about this, then we should be doubly so.

I would be astounded if the government ever went down the road of a National England wide ban. But I completely agree with your point regarding disunity over this amongst ourselves. There seems to be a mixed picture nationwide, particularly up here in Scotland were policy and attitudes vary from region to region.
But fundamentally what has to change is how we are viewed by others, and our behaviour has to be more considerate at times also. Just look at the video at the start of this thread, it clearly highlights selfishness from those who feel it’s ok to flood an area with Motorhomes for overnight stays. I fully understand the frustration of the people living there feeling angry and frustrated at such utter selfishness. If I turned up there to park and seen so many vans I would go elsewhere. But there reaction to call for a nationwide ban, is preposterous.
Whats required is a National strategy towards wild camping, because currently there is none. What we have are small groups of narrow minded individuals being led by NIMBYS creating problems not only for us, but for other areas outwith their there own. When one town bans Motorhomes they head elsewhere, possibly creating problems that would not have developed had a National strategy been put in place.
I hope that CAMpRA manage to improve things, and I am hopeful that they will.

 

[antiquesam]

I've never had a problem on European roads, never tried to drive on the wrong side of the road, but I have tried to go around a roundabouts the wrong way when I got back to the UK on the overnight ferry. Probably tiredness because it couldn't possibly have been the drop of wine I had the night before.

 

[antiquesam]

It's amazing how much animosity a motorhome can induce in the public. I used to live in Worthing and decided to stop for a trip down memory lane a couple of years ago and parked up on the seafront while we were passing through. Having had a stroll we were enjoying a drink before setting off home when some bloke came clambering over the grass mound to check my parking receipt in the windscreen before berating me for having the temerity to park there and was encouraged by a gaggle of oldies passing by. Strange.

 

[alcam]

I would be astounded if the government ever went down the road of a National England wide ban. But I completely agree with your point regarding disunity over this amongst ourselves. There seems to be a mixed picture nationwide, particularly up here in Scotland were policy and attitudes vary from region to region.
But fundamentally what has to change is how we are viewed by others, and our behaviour has to be more considerate at times also. Just look at the video at the start of this thread, it clearly highlights selfishness from those who feel it’s ok to flood an area with Motorhomes for overnight stays. I fully understand the frustration of the people living there feeling angry and frustrated at such utter selfishness. If I turned up there to park and seen so many vans I would go elsewhere. But there reaction to call for a nationwide ban, is preposterous.
Whats required is a National strategy towards wild camping, because currently there is none. What we have are small groups of narrow minded individuals being led by NIMBYS creating problems not only for us, but for other areas outwith their there own. When one town bans Motorhomes they head elsewhere, possibly creating problems that would not have developed had a National strategy been put in place.
I hope that CAMpRA manage to improve things, and I am hopeful that they will.

Couldn't agree more . Would like to think the majority on here would also agree but it is certainly not unanimous
Fisherrow was a good example of this . Not saying the height barriers etc were a solution but we are not blameless
There are some signs of councils looking at working with us not against us . Campra will , I think , be part of the overall solution

 

[Fisherman]

Couldn't agree more . Would like to think the majority on here would also agree but it is certainly not unanimous
Fisherrow was a good example of this . Not saying the height barriers etc were a solution but we are not blameless
There are some signs of councils looking at working with us not against us . Campra will , I think , be part of the overall solution

I won’t repeat what I have posted about fisherrow. Suffice to say there were problems there, and we were part of the problems there, but not the main problem. But to date they have only dealt with one problem. If you read the comments from the SNP councillor there, it pretty well summed what faces us, ignorance and belligerence.

 

[alcam]

I won’t repeat what I have posted about fisherrow. Suffice to say there were problems there, and we were part of the problems there, but not the main problem. But to date they have only dealt with one problem. If you read the comments from the SNP councillor there, it pretty well summed what faces us, ignorance and belligerence.

I do , vaguely , remember thread . Not sure what you thought main problem was , maybe just the local councillor ? Basically he appeared to be an erse
But parking in turning points , front of flats , tables and chairs , loads of vans etc etc does not help
Probably harder to defeat the undoubted 'ignorance and belligerence' if we don't behave responsibly .
I think , reluctantly , spots like Fisherrow have to be policed very strictly . Break the rules and you get fined
We , rightly , laud France etc for the provision of aires but , where there are restrictions , they can be pretty draconian

 

[clewless]

I would be astounded if the government ever went down the road of a National England wide ban. But I completely agree with your point regarding disunity over this amongst ourselves. There seems to be a mixed picture nationwide, particularly up here in Scotland were policy and attitudes vary from region to region.
But fundamentally what has to change is how we are viewed by others, and our behaviour has to be more considerate at times also. Just look at the video at the start of this thread, it clearly highlights selfishness from those who feel it’s ok to flood an area with Motorhomes for overnight stays. I fully understand the frustration of the people living there feeling angry and frustrated at such utter selfishness. If I turned up there to park and seen so many vans I would go elsewhere. But there reaction to call for a nationwide ban, is preposterous.
Whats required is a National strategy towards wild camping, because currently there is none. What we have are small groups of narrow minded individuals being led by NIMBYS creating problems not only for us, but for other areas outwith their there own. When one town bans Motorhomes they head elsewhere, possibly creating problems that would not have developed had a National strategy been put in place.
I hope that CAMpRA manage to improve things, and I am hopeful that they will.

Surprised or not; this is a very real possibility. It not individual towns implementing a wild camping ban, but our elected government that seriously considering a nation wide ban and making it a criminal offence. Fall foul of local bylaws and you will get a fine. Fall foul of the proposed legislation and you will get a criminal record.

 

[Fisherman]

Surprised or not; this is a very real possibility. It not individual towns implementing a wild camping ban, but our elected government that seriously considering a nation wide ban and making it a criminal offence. Fall foul of local bylaws and you will get a fine. Fall foul of the proposed legislation and you will get a criminal record.

I have spent a fair bit of time looking at the proposed act, and they could not have made clearer were this is targeted at. They even mention by name travellers in the proposals. I posted extensively on this and don’t wish to cover the salient points again. I am aware of such a ban in Portugal, but Portugal has an existing Aire type infrastructure in place which we don’t.
The C&MC had an independent report carried out only last year which showed the benefits to the U.K. economy from our pastime. Approx 120,000 people are employed, and the U.K. economy benefits approx by £9 billion a year.
I am not ruling out the possibility of an England wide ban, I just don’t think it will happen. I do agree that sadly we lack unity of purpose within our ranks, something that surprises me. But like you I think CAMpRA will play a role in shaping what I think will be a better future.

 

[clewless]

I have spent a fair bit of time looking at the proposed act, and they could not have made clearer were this is targeted at. They even mention by name travellers in the proposals. I posted extensively on this and don’t wish to cover the salient points again. I am aware of such a ban in Portugal, but Portugal has an existing Aire type infrastructure in place which we don’t.
The C&MC had an independent report carried out only last year which showed the benefits to the U.K. economy from our pastime. Approx 120,000 people are employed, and the U.K. economy benefits approx by £9 billion a year.
I am not ruling out the possibility of an England wide ban, I just don’t think it will happen. I do agree that sadly we lack unity of purpose within our ranks, something that surprises me. But like you I think CAMpRA will play a role in shaping what I think will be a better future.

I hope you are right and we will not be caught in the net to ban "travelers", but a year ago, the proposal concerned 18 different national groups (including the Ramblers Ass, Cycling UK, British Canoe Union etc, etc). So much that the CEO's, Chair Persons etc, wrote a joint letter to the Rt Hon Priti Patel, MP, Home Secretary, to voice their collective concerns. I don't know how many member there are in Wildcamping, but with a name like this, surly we all need to contact our MPs and let them know how we feel about the relative freedom we presently enjoy before it is lost for good. I am sure that within our membership, there must be those capable of drafting a suitable letter template we all could all use to write to our own MP.

 

[Fisherman]

I hope you are right and we will not be caught in the net to ban "travelers", but a year ago, the proposal concerned 18 different national groups (including the Ramblers Ass, Cycling UK, British Canoe Union etc, etc). So much that the CEO's, Chair Persons etc, wrote a joint letter to the Rt Hon Priti Patel, MP, Home Secretary, to voice their collective concerns. I don't know how many member there are in Wildcamping, but with a name like this, surly we all need to contact our MPs and let them know how we feel about the relative freedom we presently enjoy before it is lost for good. I am sure that within our membership, there must be those capable of drafting a suitable letter template we all could all use to write to our own MP.

If I lived in England I would consider contacting my MP. But things are generally speaking much better in Scotland than in England. There are no such proposals up here from our Scottish government. But if you look closely at the proposals many of the terms used, and the criteria for police intervention do not apply to someone parked in a car park for a night or two. If you wish to read the thread on here on this subject here is the link. https://wildcamping.co.uk/threads/new-law-for-travellers.85835/