Man fined for penkife in car

[Samson]

Should be in a tool box or in a utensil draw. Not in the dashboard or under the drivers seat

And I know an ex special forces guy who used to keep a knife under his drivers seat. Only, it was wedged in between the floor and the underside of the seat with the blade facing upwards, in case anyone tried to steal his car. I'm sure this is illegal. Ouch!

 

[mildred]

at last - the reason why

Remember the story about the caravanner pensioner who got nicked for having a Swiss Army Knife "for peeling fruit" in the glovebox?

The story is out now - it wasn't a SAK - it was a lock-blade for which he had no good reason to carry in public, and he had made threats to use it offensively.

Looks like he got off lightly - no wonder his brief advised him to plead guilty - something which I couldn't understand at the time.

Here's the update: Police: Why we arrested disabled 'fruit knife' man

and here's a review of the knife in question (as best I can identify it - the Buck Whitaker X-tract - a handy looking tool it must be said, but not one to leave in your glovebox, in case you have to peel some fruit!

multitool.org - Buck X-Tract

Be safe, be careful

Mild Red

 

[maingate]

I hope my van is never searched.

I will get more than a fine if they see what I have.

 

[barnybg]

The law ?

I think searching a person or a car,compared to a caravan or motorhome,is totally different surely !even a works vehicle or van,if in working hours,you are going to find many dangerous objects that could be said to be 'risky' but sense should prevail and as long as the driver wasn't running up the road,weilding his chainsaw,axe,pick,hammer,stanley knife,saw,level etc then ok,on the other hand someone standing at a traffic lights for instance with an open 'lock knife' or similar,is normally up to no good ??! and should be stopped,questioned and arrested ! there again it depends on where you live and what the courts dish out,for instance a man while drunk and disordely,having argued decided to run down the main shopping area of South Wales valley weilding a large machette and shouting out obseneties,was given a years probation,as he was suffering from 'stress' another similar done it with a samarai sword ,high on drugs....oh poor bugger,let him off and give him £100 a week on the sick ,the UK is in a right mess.

 

[kenjones]

Remember the story about the caravanner pensioner who got nicked for having a Swiss Army Knife "for peeling fruit" in the glovebox?

The story is out now - it wasn't a SAK - it was a lock-blade for which he had no good reason to carry in public, and he had made threats to use it offensively.

Looks like he got off lightly - no wonder his brief advised him to plead guilty - something which I couldn't understand at the time.

Here's the update: Police: Why we arrested disabled 'fruit knife' man

and here's a review of the knife in question (as best I can identify it - the Buck Whitaker X-tract - a handy looking tool it must be said, but not one to leave in your glovebox, in case you have to peel some fruit!

multitool.org - Buck X-Tract

Be safe, be careful

Mild Red

Thank you for clearing this up.
It's a shame the original report was so misleading.

 

[widu13]

Headlines sell newspapers, facts don't.

I still can't believe however, that in today's modern age people actually fully believe what they read in a newspaper and then spout off about it without knowing the facts! Incredible.

 

[Boxerman]

Remember the story about the caravanner pensioner who got nicked for having a Swiss Army Knife "for peeling fruit" in the glovebox?

The story is out now - it wasn't a SAK - it was a lock-blade for which he had no good reason to carry in public, and he had made threats to use it offensively.

Looks like he got off lightly - no wonder his brief advised him to plead guilty - something which I couldn't understand at the time.

Here's the update: Police: Why we arrested disabled 'fruit knife' man

and here's a review of the knife in question (as best I can identify it - the Buck Whitaker X-tract - a handy looking tool it must be said, but not one to leave in your glovebox, in case you have to peel some fruit!

multitool.org - Buck X-Tract

Be safe, be careful

Mild Red

Thanks for this, I was sure that there was more to this case than what was reported in the media. Is it any wonder that some people have a low opinion of the police force when newspapers twist the truth (lie even) in order to sensationalise a story and deliberately make the police look bad?

The comments underneath make interesting reading as well - it seems that the "poor old disabled chap" was a nasty piece of work really.

Rgds
Frank

 

[T4Guy]

Pen Knives

Think it's just crazy that someone could be fined for having Swiss Army knife in the car. I have a swiss Army knife and 2 Leathermans, one of which is very illegal as it has a locking blade, as a result i keep it in my kitchen gadget box in my Camper.

Interesting fact you may find amusing or make you angry. I work with Young Offenders and my work is often at the Police Station. Whilst at the Police Station i have noticed that several Officers with Leathermans on their belts.. One Rule for Us and One Rule for the others I guess...

 

[Boxerman]

Think it's just crazy that someone could be fined for having Swiss Army knife in the car.

He didn't get fined for having a Swiss Army Knife in the car! read Police: Why we arrested disabled 'fruit knife' man

The papers told porkies

Rgds
Frank

 

[Samson]

He didn't get fined for having a Swiss Army Knife in the car! read Police: Why we arrested disabled 'fruit knife' man

The papers told porkies

Rgds
Frank

This only goes to prove the comments made earlier by Mildred and myself, that you can carry a folding knife with a cutting edge of no more than 3 inches, providing there is never any indication or intent to use it in an improper manner.
Incidentally, I have never read anything (from a legal source) to indicate that if the folding knife 'locks', it then ceases to become a folding knife. Any folding knife that doesn't lock when opened, is very dangerous to use. The possibilities of slicing off your own finger with it are real indeed.

 

[Deleted member 2636]

He didn't get fined for having a Swiss Army Knife in the car! read Police: Why we arrested disabled 'fruit knife' man

The papers told porkies

The papers didn't get it wrong but the Police prosecuting Council did. It was Council who first called it a SAK. The newspapers just reported what was said in Court

 

[Boxerman]

I stand corected

Rgds
Frank

 

[Deleted member 2636]

I stand corected

Rgds
Frank

No worries Frank - I'll bet that the Rozzers had more than a few words with that Prosecuter after the trial though

 

[mildred]

Incidentally, I have never read anything (from a legal source) to indicate that if the folding knife 'locks', it then ceases to become a folding knife. Any folding knife that doesn't lock when opened, is very dangerous to use. The possibilities of slicing off your own finger with it are real indeed.

A lock knife is not a folding pocket knife (It's a "Police" source - not sure if that's what you mean by a legal source).

I'm still scarred from a knife closing up across my fingers whilst scraping the paint out of a screw holding a door lock. However - I've removed the locking mechanism from my favourite Swiss Army and shortened the blade so that I can carry it around without problem.

Mild Red

 

[Deleted member 2636]

Just as an aside to all this: If you ever go to a so-called Bushmoot, or Bushcraft meeting, everyone and I mean everyone, men, women and children will be carrying fixed blade knives

 

[Samson]

A lock knife is not a folding pocket knife (It's a "Police" source - not sure if that's what you mean by a legal source).

Mild Red

Thanks Mildred, and interesting.
Though I have to wonder why this interpretation of the law, or addition to it, isn't included in the legal 'Act'.
I have known the police to 'interpret the law' before and for this to be rejected by the courts, though your source does seem to be an official police statement. I suppose as a solicitor would view it, recent court precedents would have to be examined to determine the true answer. But now I'm not sure what to think.

 

[mildred]

I suppose as a solicitor would view it, recent court precedents would have to be examined to determine the true answer

Here you go then:

HARRIS v DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS; FEHMI v SAME

QUEEN'S BENCH DIVISION

[1993] 1 All ER 562, [1993] 1 WLR 82, 96 Cr App Rep 235, 157 JP 205

HEARING-DATES: 21 July 1992

21 July 1992

CATCHWORDS:
Crime -- Offensive weapon -- Article with blade -- Lock knife -- Capable of being folded only on pressing button to release lock -- Whether "folding pocketknife" -- Criminal Justice Act 1988 (c 33), s 139

HEADNOTE:
For the purposes of section 139 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 a "folding pocketknife" is a knife which is readily and immediately foldable at all times simply by the folding process.

Where, therefore, defendants were each convicted of an offence contrary to section 139 of having with him in a public place without good reason or lawful authority a "lock knife" which could only be refolded by the pressing of a button to release a locking mechanism, and the defendants appealed on the grounds that the knives were folding pocketknives which, being less than three inches in length, could lawfully be carried in a public place:-

Held, dismissing the appeals, that lock knives were not folding pocketknives for the purposes of section 139 and the defendants had been rightly convicted (post, p 87E-F).

Locking knives - irrespective of length - are not legal everyday carry in your pocket items. You must have good reason to have them in the context in which you possess them.

There's a bit of legal discussion here that mentions Opinels if anybody is really interested.

We can go on and on about how a lock blade is safer, but we are whistling in the wind.

Mild Red

 

[Samson]

Here you go then:



Locking knives - irrespective of length - are not legal everyday carry in your pocket items. You must have good reason to have them in the context in which you possess them.

There's a bit of legal discussion here that mentions Opinels if anybody is really interested.

We can go on and on about how a lock blade is safer, but we are whistling in the wind.

Mild Red

Well that has cleared that up nicely, and I stand corrected.
Many thanks Mildred.

 

[cebo2005]

cebo2005

why don't site administraors, look for a good solicitor for members to use to put PC PLODDERS in their place? suggestion only but what do members think?

 

[mildred]

why don't site administraors, look for a good solicitor for members to use to put PC PLODDERS in their place?

It would take more than a good solicitor to establish a rebuttal of R v. Harris. In Deegan v Regina the Judge, whilst upholding the conviction, agreed that the law regarding lock knives was not in the spirit of Section 139. Never-the-less he did not do anything to redress the balance - I suspect because it was not politically desirable to water down the main Act given the vocal public concerns about "knife crime".

This is a case of bad law, which is probably here to stay. PC Plodders has little option but to apply the test of 3 inch length and "does it close without pressing a catch, or releasing a lock". If that's OK then "On your way" (unless you're being an ar***e) - if it fails then you better have "good reason" to have the lock blade in public. If there's any doubt then get nicked and have your day in court.

<RANT MODE ON>
There's a lot of bad law on the books - almost any rights movement can give you their pet examples, but whilst we have MPs that are selected on charisma and political agenda rather than demonstrable rational thinking that's the price of democracy.
<RANT OFF>