Man fined for penkife in car

[mildred]

... officer of the law, he will ... ask ''why are you carrying a knife''. The intent of the question is designed for self implication

Spot on - and any evasive or incongruous answers will result in further "investigation". I suspect this is where the chap with the SAK in the glovebox came amiss. If the knife is technically a folding one, is of legal length, the carrier is not using or displaying it inappropriately and one quietly and firmly uses Samson's incantation there is no reason for the matter to be pursued.

The line of questioning can be subtle though ... "That's an impressive knife, etc etc" and as soon as the respondent says anything about protecting yourself with it you're done for!

But you don't even get to the questioning stage if it's not a legit folder and is under the current length limit (which by the way is merely set by regulation - a new Act would not be required to drop it to say 50mm.)

Mild Red

 

[Boxerman]

Make sure it's not a half-brick (AKA Brick-bat) - there's laws about them too ... (Following the Peterloo Riots).

Mild Red

Peterloo wan't a riot it was a peaceful political meeting until the militia and dragoons charged. I've always known it as the Peterloo massacre not riot.

This subject (carrying knives) is often discussed on sea fishing forums as an "essential" part of your tackle is a filleting knife which have fixed blades which are usually longer than 3".
The general consensus seems to be that if it is packed away in your fishing bag/box and you're not carrying it on your person, then you are unlikely to run foul of the law.

Frank

 

[derekfaeberwick]

Peterloo wan't a riot it was a peaceful political meeting until the militia and dragoons charged. I've always known it as the Peterloo massacre not riot.

This subject (carrying knives) is often discussed on sea fishing forums as an "essential" part of your tackle is a filleting knife which have fixed blades which are usually longer than 3".
The general consensus seems to be that if it is packed away in your fishing bag/box and you're not carrying it on your person, then you are unlikely to run foul of the law.

Frank

Unlikely is not really good enough though, is it. It does really seem to be that if the Polis doesn't like you then you are going to be done.

This should not be the case, they should be upholding the law, not making it.

 

[Boxerman]

Unlikely is not really good enough though, is it. It does really seem to be that if the Polis doesn't like you then you are going to be done.

This should not be the case, they should be upholding the law, not making it.

Technically, carrying a very sharp fixed blade knife with a pointed blade of around 6" long is breaking the law.

Fortunately I believe that most police officers would accept that it is not being carried to be used as an offensive weapon. I agree that there are those who only see in black and white, like the "officer" who booked someone for sneezing while driving.

One question I posed on a sea fishing forum was "why would a policeman have reason to search a law abiding angler merely pursuing his sport?" The only answers I received were all based conjecture as despite all the ifs & buts no-one had actually been "done".

When all is said and done - we have to ask ourselves why these laws are needed? They are to help protect the general public from those individuals who would seek to kill or maim others. I can remember when many boys, myself included, walked around openly with a sheath knife on their belt, there were very few stabbings though, unlike today - a sign of the times, sadly.

Frank

 

[defitzi]

incredible-disgusting

Disabled caravanner given criminal record for penknife in car
A disabled man who kept a Swiss Army penknife in his car to cut up fruit on picnics, has been landed with criminal record for possessing an offensive weapon.

Any thoughts on this because I bet that lots of us have something similar

http://http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7593039/Disabled-caravanner-given-criminal-record-for-penknife-in-car.html

defitzi: Whatever is Britain coming to? Police get more and more Fascist daily and we've allowed this govenment (who must not be reelected without supervision from the LIB-Dems, Scots Nats, Cymru abd the NI parties( anymore than the Tories either).
But as it did happen- how did it get past a magistratye? Or are our Magistrates just apparachiks-little Stalinists?
It is incredible -it is indeed a dark day when such infringments of human rights are not only permitted but6 comitted by the so called guardians of law and order.
In the light of another recent report of an onslaught on senior citizens , convictions for dozens of minor mainly bureaucratic offences, all with the aim of increason figures, it is apparent there is now a move to elm iinate serious are "too" costly to be worth keeping.
Link this to the cries for euthanasia and...
Stinks to heaven of a Pol Pot-resurection-doesn'it?
I herby give notice to every jackbooted plod, grey-suited Gauleiter, bent Chief Constable in search of targets, and their Home Office ilk, that I have in my motorhome a drawer full of assorted extremely sharp knives and may the devil take them and their increasing corruption. It in increasingly clear that they are but nasty, bigoted, brutish, baton wielding, murdering thugs in uniform with a licence to behave as they do.

 

[defitzi]

might depend on the location of the boat-afloat .its equipement.
On shore? Well.....
yet anothert Stalinist result of rushing through laws in knee jerks manipulated by Rupert
Murdoch and Co.

 

[defitzi]

so-let's punish the innocent to get at the guilty.....
Is that what's called the rights of man perhaps?

 

[Samson]

There are provisions in the Act for persons carrying fix blade knives on their person, including anglers, people camping etc. though they would not usually be doing so in a strictly 'public place'. A fisherman with a knife in his box or someone camping in the woods with a knife would not be prosecuted if they can demonstrate the obvious reasons for the harmless purpose of the knife.
I carry and use a fixed blade knife every working day as it is essential for the purpose of my work as I am a flooring contractor, and often this is on my person in a public place. If a policeman took exception to me and tried to 'test' the law, I have no doubt that his case would not stand up in a court of law. The police are not the law, they merely enforce it, and often dont absolutely fully understand it in all of it's detail. I once read a very lengthy debate on a police forum about the legality of an officer carrying a folding knife on his person. Some said that it could be argued that it could be invaluable for say, cutting a person free from a seat belt in an emergency. Another made the point that it is not part of official kit and so is illegal. And yet another commented that he always carries one, and that if he was in a situation where the s### hit the fan, he would use it to save his life because he would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6! And the discussion didn't reach any conclusion.
The problem is that a lot of citizens if charged wrongly for an offence, will plead guilty and are afraid of challenging the police.
The best way to deal with any policeman who approaches you is to show him the greatest amount of respect and humility, regardless of how you feel, both in your manner and in your facial expressions. They appreciate this as they often get the reverse, and will be more likely to treat you in a reasonable manner.

 

[defitzi]

samson

yes u have it about right- intheory. In olden(golden) days when our polis wus not corrupt; hell bent on filling quotas and when police inspectors decided whah to prosecut or not-what was a good case or not worth pursuing one could respect the police force and the way the law was adminsitered.
Sadly no longer: It's mostly now a Stalinist society with Fascist police, who think it is they who interpret and decide the law.
Personally, I despise a policeing society in which officers pick on the elderley because so many of us don't know how to fight back. They do so to make target figures. To me, that is the real ending of decency and democracy.
I have lost respect for the police years back -they do not deserve it. Fortunately with a (considerable) knowledge of common law, and jurisprudence, I am (thankfuly) in a position a) to challenge these Fascist interpretations and B) show my disdain without fear of heavy handed, unjust, retribution, which is not always the case for other's less fortunate tha I am in this regard!
I believe the root cause of our legal; and policing problems is the increasing adoption of foreign legal systems- a combination of American (written Constitution) and European (Roman) legal systems.

 

[biggirafe]

The link to the article does does not work but another one here does
Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Man with penknife in his car is handed a criminal record

You should be able to publicise stupid things like this so that the police force in question are not allowed to forget how daft they made themselves look. If I lived in Torbay I would be asking the chief constable and local MP why this was allowed to go to court, what a waste of public money.

 

[Boxerman]

Thanks for this working link I hadn't read the "details" before so didn't comment.

Reading between the lines:

The knife in the photo cannot be the one in question as that was confiscated. Looking at it, and after reading the various posts here, mainly referring to Samson's and Mildred's, it appears to be a folding blade knife with a blade of less than 3 inches and therefore quite legal.

If this is so, why did his defence advise him to plead guilty? - I notice that there is no hue and cry about wrongful legal advice. Perhaps the one in the photo wasn't like the knife in question, perhaps his knife was much different - he paid £30 for it, would you pay £30 for a knife like the one he is holding - "just to peel fruit"?

Targeting the elderly? he's younger than I am and I don't feel targeted.

Registered disabled - what's that got to do with anything? there are various degrees of disability, I used to work with a guy who was registered disabled, he had lost the little finger on one hand, didn't seem to limit him much! The guy in question manages to get to the pub OK and he's a caravanner so he isn't a cripple (pardon the expression).

Walks with a cane - I use a walking pole when my back's troubling me but it doesn't mean I'm an invalid - I remember when I was a kid there was an old bloke (probably younger than I am now) down our street who used to walk with a stick. A real nasty ******* he was, forever swiping at kids, dogs, cats and sometimes adults with it - he would have been banged up nowadays and rightly so!. Walking with a cane does not make you a nice old man or woman.

Many people on this forum say they don't trust the police (many don't appear to trust anybody) I don't trust the media, particularly "newspapers", they manipulate stories such as these and only tell half the tale - the more sensational the better - blowing things up beyond all proportion.

There are two sides to every story - I think there's more to this tale than has been told.

Frank

 

[Chrissy]

I don't trust the media, particularly "newspapers", they manipulate stories such as these and only tell half the tale - the more sensational the better - blowing things up beyond all proportion.

There are two sides to every story - I think there's more to this tale than has been told.

Frank

Too true - I don't buy newspapers and the news on tele is as bad with conflicting reports on the same station, never mind between stations especially with regard to "facts" and statistics

 

[biggirafe]

Thanks for this working link I hadn't read the "details" before so didn't comment.

Reading between the lines:

The knife in the photo cannot be the one in question as that was confiscated. Looking at it, and after reading the various posts here, mainly referring to Samson's and Mildred's, it appears to be a folding blade knife with a blade of less than 3 inches and therefore quite legal.

If this is so, why did his defence advise him to plead guilty? - I notice that there is no hue and cry about wrongful legal advice. Perhaps the one in the photo wasn't like the knife in question, perhaps his knife was much different - he paid £30 for it, would you pay £30 for a knife like the one he is holding - "just to peel fruit"?

Targeting the elderly? he's younger than I am and I don't feel targeted.

Registered disabled - what's that got to do with anything? there are various degrees of disability, I used to work with a guy who was registered disabled, he had lost the little finger on one hand, didn't seem to limit him much! The guy in question manages to get to the pub OK and he's a caravanner so he isn't a cripple (pardon the expression).

Walks with a cane - I use a walking pole when my back's troubling me but it doesn't mean I'm an invalid - I remember when I was a kid there was an old bloke (probably younger than I am now) down our street who used to walk with a stick. A real nasty ******* he was, forever swiping at kids, dogs, cats and sometimes adults with it - he would have been banged up nowadays and rightly so!. Walking with a cane does not make you a nice old man or woman.

Many people on this forum say they don't trust the police (many don't appear to trust anybody) I don't trust the media, particularly "newspapers", they manipulate stories such as these and only tell half the tale - the more sensational the better - blowing things up beyond all proportion.

There are two sides to every story - I think there's more to this tale than has been told.

Frank

Thats very true, The press will normally only provide what they feel makes the story better reading (in their opinion).

I still have to wonder what this chap could have done to require a court case costing us all several thousands of pounds, even if he was a beligerant old git and made a fuss about being stopped and then his car searched you would have thought that someone in the police station would have seen sense and maybe cautioned him.

I'm not usually one to knock the lads but unless he stabbed or threatened to stab someone I really can think of any reason why this should have been brought before the courts

 

[Boxerman]

I'm not usually one to knock the lads but unless he stabbed or threatened to stab someone I really can think of any reason why this should have been brought before the courts

Exactly my point - there's more to this than the papers would like us to believe.

Frank

 

[biggirafe]

Exactly my point - there's more to this than the papers would like us to believe.

Frank

Maybe, but if he had stabbed someone or gone berserk I expect the papers would have run that story as it would be much better reading.

'Drunken Disabled Pensioner goes mad in Torbay with Swiss Army knife, Join our campaign to ban the Knife, The Swiss and Pensioners'

Perhaps your dislike of the newspapers Frank is colouring your view in the same way others have instantly jumped on the anti police and authority bandwagon.

Truth is we will probably never know.

Has anyone ever used the tool for removing stones from horses hooves, this is what i wanna know
Mark

 

[Boxerman]

Maybe, but if he had stabbed someone or gone berserk I expect the papers would have run that story as it would be much better reading.

'Drunken Disabled Pensioner goes mad in Torbay with Swiss Army knife, Join our campaign to ban the Knife, The Swiss and Pensioners'

Perhaps your dislike of the newspapers Frank is colouring your view in the same way others have instantly jumped on the anti police and authority bandwagon.

Truth is we will probably never know.

Has anyone ever used the tool for removing stones from horses hooves, this is what i wanna know
Mark

Actually Mark I don't really care one way or the other - he may have been victimised and he may not. I was just trying to get people to look at it from another angle instead of assuming that everything the papers say is gospel.

As Barry Sheene said of the Motor Cycle News "never let the truth stand in the way of a good story"

I have never attempted to remove a stone from a horses hoof. I believe that horses hooves and stones should be kept as far apart as possible - especially if the stones in question belong to me.

Rgds
Frank

 

[kenjones]

I have a Swiss army knife and by the time I work out which bit to open it is anything but an offensive weapon.
On a more serious note I carry a 6" kitchen knife in my camper for food preparation. If it were on my person then yes it would be an offensive weapon.
How do we stand having an innocent utensil when on the road?

 

[biggirafe]

I have a Swiss army knife and by the time I work out which bit to open it is anything but an offensive weapon.
On a more serious note I carry a 6" kitchen knife in my camper for food preparation. If it were on my person then yes it would be an offensive weapon.
How do we stand having an innocent utensil when on the road?

Should be in a tool box or in a utensil draw. Not in the dashboard or under the drivers seat

 

[G4GMO]

So should I not carry a 9 inch sharp pointed bread knife and a similar meat knife in my mh kept in the cutlery drawer? Jeez better become a vegetarian and just carry a peeler.

 

[Samson]

So should I not carry a 9 inch sharp pointed bread knife and a similar meat knife in my mh kept in the cutlery drawer? Jeez better become a vegetarian and just carry a peeler.

I carry several brand new ( razor sharp ) long knives in my camper, to cut vegetables, meat and fish of course. I wouldn't even worry about it.