Man fined for penkife in car

[Deleted member 2636]

Disabled caravanner given criminal record for penknife in car
A disabled man who kept a Swiss Army penknife in his car to cut up fruit on picnics, has been landed with criminal record for possessing an offensive weapon.

Any thoughts on this because I bet that lots of us have something similar

http://http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7593039/Disabled-caravanner-given-criminal-record-for-penknife-in-car.html

 

[Scotsbob]

Probably the PC brigade thought he might cut himself and did it for his own safety, and some Pc Plod bucking for promotion to Chief constable.

 

[Davesport]

Probably because he could reach it from the drivers seat

They'de lynch me. I carry a hatchet, bowsaw & a Machette

D.

 

[bigboack]

Probably because he could reach it from the drivers seat

They'de lynch me. I carry a hatchet, bowsaw & a Machette

D.

They would have a field day if they stopped Lenny and he showed them his secret compartment. I would pay good money to see that one.

 

[ALLERDALECHEF]

i took my kitchen knives to get sharpened by a guy who cuts keys etc , sharpens knives and does engraving from a van out side my local b&q .......he nearly had a fit when i handed them over as they were in an open knife rack , when he gave me them back he taped them all up with ducktape as he said the plod would knick me if they saw me carring them ! ..............i thought he was joking but it seems not ( maybe i would get away with it if i was in my chefs whites ! )

 

[barryd]

I have a flick knife that I picked up in Portugal many years ago and it was stored on my boat for god knows how long. It only has a 3" blade but it was really useful for fishing as you could be tying a knot and need to quickly cut a line with only one hand so you picked it up and flicked it out and cut the line. Much easier than a lock knife or fixed blade. I think its rusting away somewhere but is it illegal? I would never carry it around but may put it in my van tool kit.

BD

 

[nowhereman]

Dont understand why the guy would be done for having a Swiss army knife if the blade was 3 inches or under.
I was supporting a friend in court in Newcastle last year and on entry to the court was asked to empty my pockets. As always I had a Swiss army knife on me which was taken from me whilst I was in the court and handed back when I left. Considering there was plenty of plod and court security around then why was I not done for carrying the same item as the disabled motorist.

 

[maingate]

Knives are sharp and can be dangerous. That is why I carry hand grenades instead.

 

[ajs]

Knives are sharp and can be dangerous. That is why I carry hand grenades instead.

well **** don't let go.. i have the pins

regards
aj

 

[derekfaeberwick]

well **** don't let go.. i have the pins

regards
aj

Is zis zem?

 

[mildred]

I have a flick knife [...] is it illegal? BD

Yes - Flick and "Gravity" knives are illegal to possess outside your place of residence. They may not be offered for sale.
The Law. This is a compactly written summary with links to the actual Acts if you want to "plod"(*!) through them.

Mild Red

 

[mildred]

Swiss Army Knives

There are a number of genuine "Swiss Army Knives" that are illegal to carry in a public place unless you can show you have a genuine need.

Showing you have a genuine need will either cost you a lot of money in representation fees, or take up your life arguing and agonising about the craziness of the law. Example "genuine need" might be an electric linesman who needs a knife that won't fold back on his fingers. Even so that knife had better be in a toolbox, not casually in a pocket.

Quoting from the The British Knife Collectors Guild:

What You Can Carry ...

The Criminal Justice Act (1988) says that you may carry a knife with a blade length of 3.0" or less so long as it is capable of folding. That means no fixed blade knives.​

That's about as simple as can be - ANY sort of lock or permanent detent mechanism makes it into a fixed blade - Go to Jail. I've seen all sorts of clever attempts to get round that - but nobody has actually taken them to defend in court.

The three inch limit has been challenged in court - and while not setting a precedent - the choil part of the folding blade has not been included in the critical measurement. The three inches is technically interpreted as the "cutting edge". The means that a curved blade such as a pruning knife could fall foul of the law if carried publicly even if the overall length of the blade was under the limit.

Returning to Swiss Army Knifes, I believe the following would be inadvisable to carry casually in public, or possess outside one's place of residence:

Dual Pro, Forester (including Duals), Nomad Duals, Equestrian, Trailmaster, Hunter, Rescue tool, Picknicker, Outrider, Rucksack, Skipper, Tradesman and Workchamp.
These fail on the simple matter of the locking blade.

From a length of blade these could get you into trouble:
Victorinox Solo, Victorinox Farmer Alox,


I have a Workchamp which is available on my belt, in a pouch and attached to the belt by a short length of paracord. I have modified it by reducing the length of the blade, reshaping the end from a short point to a "tanto" short edge, and critically, removing the plastic locking button from the side scale. This is easy to do by slightly easing away the plastic scale on that side and just letting the button fall free when you have the clearance.

Whilst it pains me to have to muck around with a safe and useful knife in such a way - it does convert it from an instant "nick" to something I'm confident about leaving on my person - whether I'm working in town or on my own on private land.

And to be honest - the loss of less than .5 inch overall length has not really affected what I can do with it.

Another option on reshaping a long pointed blade would be to make something like this:
DoE knife - though I do think that is a spectacularly useless knife given the context. As if you're going to need a Phillips whilst doing the Ten Tors! That can opener looks less than useful too.

Take care out there -

Mild Red

 

[Deleted member 2636]

My main reason to post this was to draw everyone's attention to something that can give you a lot of stress.

The main gist of all this is that if you have a knife in the van is to make sure it is in a toolbox/cutlery drawer. I feel reasonably sure that if the man involved had not kept the in the glove compartment that he would not have got into trouble.

The Forces of Babylon are only too happy to find something: So don't give them cause

 

[Pioneer]

Better move my pruning saw for cutting overhanging branches you understand

 

[derekfaeberwick]

A disabled man who kept a Swiss Army penknife in his car to cut up fruit on picnics, has been landed with criminal record for possessing an offensive weapon.

Any thoughts on this because I bet that lots of us have something similar

http://http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7593039/Disabled-caravanner-given-criminal-record-for-penknife-in-car.html

Maybe it was the AK47 in his other hand that was the problem,, or maybe they just didn't like his car.

 

[derekfaeberwick]

Quoting from the The British Knife Collectors Guild:

What You Can Carry ...

The Criminal Justice Act (1988) says that you may carry a knife with a blade length of 3.0" or less so long as it is capable of folding. That means no fixed blade knives.​

That's about as simple as can be - ANY sort of lock or permanent detent mechanism makes it into a fixed blade - Go to Jail. Mild Red

Not that simple though, although it is 'locked' it can be unlocked and folded, therefore it is still capable of folding surely.

 

[mildred]

Not that simple though, although it is 'locked' it can be unlocked and folded, therefore it is still capable of folding surely.

No - if it is capable of being locked then it is regarded as a fixed blade. Clever things with concealed pins, rotating collars and other things will not work as a defence. What's more you've then manufactured it ...

I'm told that if you're in the wrong place, at the wrong time, then even a multi-tool that has a short blade, but because of the way the handles fold the blade cannot be returned to the handle when the blade is "out" will be regarded as a lock-blade. No defence possible.

The knife collector and outdoor world have done this one to death - and there are plenty of stories of exotic, valuable blades being confiscated after a caution.

Mild Red

 

[derekfaeberwick]

I'm told that if you're in the wrong place, at the wrong time, then even a multi-tool that has a short blade, but because of the way the handles fold the blade cannot be returned to the handle when the blade is "out" will be regarded as a lock-blade. No defence possible.



Mild Red

Guess that's my Gerber multi ruled out then.

Next time I'm out to do a spot of mugging I'll just stick to a good old fashioned brick then.

 

[mildred]

Guess that's my Gerber multi ruled out then.(

In your pocket, outside a pub on a Friday night when something kicks off - probably not a good idea. In a tool-box whilst you're working on something - reasonable purpose. In overalls whilst doing handywork - reasonable purpose.

What about the Bahco Mtt8674 Multitool? I have one of these, and whilst not as "nice" as a Gerber, very functional, and the way the blades open out can't be regarded as a lock-blade.

Next time I'm out to do a spot of mugging I'll just stick to a good old fashioned brick then.:

Make sure it's not a half-brick (AKA Brick-bat) - there's laws about them too ... (Following the Peterloo Riots).

Mild Red

 

[Samson]

According to the Act, if a person carries in a public place a 'folding pocketknife' of which the cutting edge of the blade does not exceed 3'', he or she is committing no offence.
If such a knife is discovered by an officer of the law, he will first examine the length of the blade, and then ask ''why are you carrying a knife''. The intent of the question is designed for self implication, in other words, to ascertain if you make any indication as to the purpose being for self defense, or as a weapon. A reply such as '' It's a pocket knife and it's legal to carry one '' leaves the officer with no reason to pursue the matter. I know this from personal experience.