low cost aires and camping stops

[wildebus]

In my previous post where I put I was charged 18p for 2 days leccy use it was to illustrate that some CL’s do have metered connections and will charge for what you use. I believe that is the best way as if you use nothing you pay nothing. In the summer if there is a choice I will take a pitch with no Ehu as my solar is enough. In bad weather/winter it looks like I need power. If a site only offers ehu pitches as some cl,s I have stopped at do then I pay whatever the rate is.

Until very recently the only 240v device we had was the built in microwave (we have softened butter twice this year) appear from on board battery chargers. In October I bought an electric kettle as I knew I was going on a site for a weekend to meet up with a friend. If I need a pitch with ehu then I am happy to pay the charge, if I don’t need ehu then really I shouldn’t have to pay for it. It isn’t me being tight but the site owner not providing what customers need. The costs of providing any services are the business cost and the owners should factor this in to their business model. If people are charged for what they use then there can be no argument.

We stay on a site every few days when away to empty cassettes and fill with water and do washing and whatever else. We don’t need much other than this so cl’s are good in the uk as there isn’t really much else to use. If the cost of this is £5 or £25 then that’s what we pay, I don’t begrudge the costs and everyone needs to earn a shilling. Metering is the RIGHT way though.

IS it though?
to collect that 18p (in your example) takes time and effort on the part of the business over and above the cost to them of the electricity consumed. so they will running at a loss on the electrical provision (especially when you include the infrastructure to provide and maintain the hookup facility).
And if that 18p was the actual cost of the power used, it doesn't matter if you used £18 worth instead - the site owner has still made the same losses as that 18p, or £18, or whatever, goes straight to paying their electric bill.

Overall the business has to make money otherwise it would not be a business. So the losses they incur in the hookup provision will have to be covered for elsewhere - probably in the site fees. So now people who are power-independant and don't need hookup (like you in the summertime) ARE actually having to pay for - and so subsidise - those folk who are using hookup.
So what is fairer? those who want hookup pay for it?, or everyone pay for hookup to a degree, whether they use it or not?

It is no different to the 'old days' when in the house you had a meter for electricity used, plus a daily standing charge. Maybe that is the way it needs to be at a campsite? a metered supply so you pay for what you use, PLUS a daily standard charge for those who want EHU that will cover the ongoing provosion and maintenance of the service.

As I am typing this, I am thinking that seems in fact the fairest way to do it and you could then have a standard 16A supply for people to use what they want as they are the ones paying for it.

 

[wildebus]

PS. For those who think £4 is a lot per day, try going to a typical VW Festival - Hookup at those are often £25

 

[GeoffL]

Thinking on it, I'd like to see card-type meters. Either that accept a credit card to pre-pay for electricity, or a key card that you pre-load when you book in and for which you pay a deposit, which you'd get back when you handed back the key card on 'check out'. Perhaps any unused funds could be refunded at check out as you'd then be more inclined to load more than you need at check in than disturb the site operators later to top up again during your stay.

IIRC & FWIW, the coin-operated meters at Valkenburg only accepted €1 and €2 coins -- so no chance of the meters getting filled up with low-value coins.

 

[colinm]

IS it though?
to collect that 18p (in your example) takes time and effort on the part of the business over and above the cost to them of the electricity consumed. so they will running at a loss on the electrical provision (especially when you include the infrastructure to provide and maintain the hookup facility).
And if that 18p was the actual cost of the power used, it doesn't matter if you used £18 worth instead - the site owner has still made the same losses as that 18p, or £18, or whatever, goes straight to paying their electric bill.

Overall the business has to make money otherwise it would not be a business. So the losses they incur in the hookup provision will have to be covered for elsewhere - probably in the site fees. So now people who are power-independant and don't need hookup (like you in the summertime) ARE actually having to pay for - and so subsidise - those folk who are using hookup.
So what is fairer? those who want hookup pay for it?, or everyone pay for hookup to a degree, whether they use it or not?

It is no different to the 'old days' when in the house you had a meter for electricity used, plus a daily standing charge. Maybe that is the way it needs to be at a campsite? a metered supply so you pay for what you use, PLUS a daily standard charge that will cover the ongoing provosion and maintenance of the service.

As I am typing this, I am thinking that seems in fact the fairest way to do it and you could then have a standard 16A supply for people to use what they want as they are the ones paying for it.

It seems to work in Germany on campsites, it does however tie down the owner to making sure some one is available to operate the system, they also often have card systems for showers and washing machines and on one site (might have been Netherlands) a token operated dishwasher. For large sites it's just factoring in the costs when there's a large staff, for a cl/cs it could tie down the owner more than they want, but the cost is neither here nor there if your not doing anything else or other work fits around it.

One site we stayed on in France(out of season) we rocked up about 4pm and sign said "choose a pitch we will be in office between 9am-11am and 5pm-7pm", luckily it was not a metered site as nobody came before we left a 10am the next day!

 

[vindiboy]

Well if something is free or all inclusive someone will take advantage, so it is down to the site owners to meter things like water and electric so they do not get fleeced Simples ? I often hear motorhomers on CCC rallies say we never fill up with water at home, we are on a meter , so we fill upon the site when we arrive and then leave with a full tank.
I personally do not see the need for electric hook ups , our van runs very well on gas and solar.

 

[maingate]

Well if something is free or all inclusive someone will take advantage, so it is down to the site owners to meter things like water and electric so they do not get fleeced Simples ? I often hear motorhomers on CCC rallies say we never fill up with water at home, we are on a meter , so we fill upon the site when we arrive and then leave with a full tank.
I personally do not see the need for electric hook ups , our van runs very well on gas and solar.

I agree with you. It is the state of British Society today, more and more people seem to have that attitude.

We use the C&CC THS a lot and notice a difference in attitude between Motorhomers and Tuggers. The Tuggers are generally more friendly. As for hookups, we use them so rarely that I have to check the manual to remind me which controls to use on 240 volts.

 

[GeoffL]

I don't quite understand why a motorhome would use a caravan site, so perhaps the motorhomers on them are atypical.

I suspect that the majority of motorhomers use campsites. I'm not saying here that the majority of motorhomers don't wild camp, just that the majority use campsites at some time.

FWIW, we're members of both the C&CC and the C&MC and have used campsites and certified sites/locations of both clubs over the last year. We have a motorhome because it gives us more choice and flexibility than a caravan would. That said, we're only in our second year with a MH and were caravanners for decades before. When we were tuggers, we had to book every trip weeks in advance to be confident of having a pitch. With the motorhome, we can turn up on spec (although we usually phone ahead) and if there's no pitch for us then we can find a nearby pub stop or wild camp. IMO, a motorhome is a better option for touring while a caravan is a better option for staying in one place for the duration and exploring from that base.

As to behaviour at C&CC rallies, my experience doesn't match maingate's. We spent a few seasons rallying with our local DA as tuggers. The vast majority of motorhomers, caravanners and tenters were friendly and welcoming.

 

[Fazerloz]

That is - IMO - precisely the way to do it.

My van has no gas (except for portable cooking outside) and I cook on an induction hob and heat water via a water heater - either would trip a 6A supply but that doesn't matter as I can use them on the battery anyway and overnight the battery charger will replenish the energy used.
In my earlier post I said I'd look at a 10A supply - in hindsight that is too high as a standard - 6A is sufficient for just about anything a camper is likely to NEED to plug in. It is enough for a 1kW heater even on top of having a battery charger plugged in.

That would depend on the charger used.

 

[Caz]

I think maybe it's swings and roundabouts on this. Maybe some do use more than they are paying for but there must be others who use less.

This weekend, I stayed on a C&CC CS for one night. There was no choice, EHU was included. They didn't have showers or toilets - which I would have found much more useful than EHU. Of course, this time of year there isn't a lot of choice if you want a site as most have closed for the winter anyway.

I arrived about 4pm and left next morning about 9am, so the EHU was only plugged in for about 17 hours, charging the battery (pretty full anyway from a long run) to power the light (i'm used to wild camping and don't put more than one on at a time), and powering the fridge. I had a 750 watt heater on for about 6 hours in the evening and a couple of hours in the morning and boiled the low wattage small kettle a couple of times. Not excessive use, I wouldn't think?

For a few years, when using my Trooper, there hasn't been the room to carry a big heavy EHU lead, never mind anything else that runs off mains, and I have begrudged campsites whose fees included EHU so I've had to pay for it even though not using it. I complained the CaMC about this and their answer was "everyone wants EHU, that's why we went to a lot of expense to install it on all pitches". "The only way we could allow non-use of EHU would be by installing meters on every pitch and it would cost far too much to do that".

Why couldn't they just put an off switch on a small % of pitches?

Re the OP - I think it is up to the CS/CL owners to make sure that folk aren't taking the mick and plugging their electric cars in or leaving heaters on in awnings - they can tell them to desist. They should have membership numbers of the offenders so, if they refuse, the owners can report transgressions to HQ, surely? Get them blacklisted or something.

 

[wildebus]

That would depend on the charger used.

Well Duh. Obviously it would! But most people don't have a >40A Mains Charger fitted

 

[colinm]

Re the OP - I think it is up to the CS/CL owners to make sure that folk aren't taking the mick and plugging their electric cars in or leaving heaters on in awnings - they can tell them to desist. They should have membership numbers of the offenders so, if they refuse, the owners can report transgressions to HQ, surely? Get them blacklisted or something.

We have similar usage to you when obliged to take EHU.

I don't believe in banning or blacklisting people for power use, once you start on that route it's a slippery slope to banning everything, and if I was running a cl/cs I certainly wouldn't want to be constantly policing it for power use, if it was a concern I'd either go for restricted power such as 6amp, or metering.

 

[Fazerloz]

Well Duh. Obviously it would! But most people don't have a >40A Mains Charger fitted

No but plenty have 20/25A chargers as standard fitment and they would take a breaker out. Not everyone uses Lidl specials. Duh

 

[ScoTTyBEEE]

No but plenty have 20/25A chargers as standard fitment and they would take a breaker out. Not everyone uses Lidl specials. Duh

25A - 300/350w. That wouldn't take a breaker out on a 6A supply, it wouldn't even trip on a 2A supply.

 

[wildebus]

No but plenty have 20/25A chargers as standard fitment and they would take a breaker out. Not everyone uses Lidl specials. Duh

try some maths

Duh Duh Duh Dummmm

 

[maingate]

I don't quite understand why a motorhome would use a caravan site, so perhaps the motorhomers on them are atypical.

I'm sure most members are glad you like to be on your own. :dance:

 

[Debroos]

my previous post was removed *****... it could have been because i was implying what you are happy to laugh about !!! i just wonder how much more than £1 you might spend in fuel looking for a place with electric at £3 rather than £4 - maybe false economy ?

In the winter i use sites in the winter for a few nights stay and the last one i used a couple of weeks ago charged £13 and they had everything you could possibly want - laundry, irons, pay phone (in a no signal area), private family room for showering, immaculately clean facilities and a great shop - and how any one could make any money out of me at that nightly rate is beyond me. In the summer i use a site weekly for a very long hot shower and waste/water stop.

if we dont use sites we will lose them and then where will be put out waste??

Was that a regular campsite for £13?

 

[wanderingwill]

im supprised at the abuse of electricity on cls ..but then i never hookup i like to be independent and this pays off for me on a pension ..better add i live alone so no doubt this helps

 

[Debroos]

We use cls with hook up sometimes in winter as we have no other heating. They have had loads of sites closing down for the last couple of years and not enough new ones opening.
Presumably excess electic usage is part of the story. I notice that some of the new ones that do open charge as much as £20 a night...grue...what a shame.

 

[GeoffL]

FWIW, I received the following message from the C&MC today:

We wanted to give you advance notice that from 5 December 2018, we’ll be making a small price increase to 2019 UK Club Site prices. This is to cover the rising price of utilities and the day to day costs of running a network of 160 UK Club Sites.

More information is available on the C&MC website, but I wonder how much of the increase is due to what's being discussed in this thread?

 

[maingate]

I suspect that the majority of motorhomers use campsites. I'm not saying here that the majority of motorhomers don't wild camp, just that the majority use campsites at some time.

FWIW, we're members of both the C&CC and the C&MC and have used campsites and certified sites/locations of both clubs over the last year. We have a motorhome because it gives us more choice and flexibility than a caravan would. That said, we're only in our second year with a MH and were caravanners for decades before. When we were tuggers, we had to book every trip weeks in advance to be confident of having a pitch. With the motorhome, we can turn up on spec (although we usually phone ahead) and if there's no pitch for us then we can find a nearby pub stop or wild camp. IMO, a motorhome is a better option for touring while a caravan is a better option for staying in one place for the duration and exploring from that base.

As to behaviour at C&CC rallies, my experience doesn't match maingate's. We spent a few seasons rallying with our local DA as tuggers. The vast majority of motorhomers, caravanners and tenters were friendly and welcoming.

I was not talking about the local weekend Meets where most attendees are regulars, get to know each other and become friends. I am talking about the longer term Temporary Holiday Sites. You are talking about different circumstances where people travel longer distances to attend these THS.