Loch Lomond and Trossachs

Croftland1 said:
See article below taken from the current Mountaineering Scotland publication, which adds some clarity and interpretation.

Loch Lomond camping issues | Mountaineering Scotland

Interestingly it quotes, "The management zones and permit scheme may not apply to laybys controlled by Transport Scotland and adjacent to trunk roads, although these may be located in camping management zones."
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I think that this was the case before the bylaws were amended last week, laybys and roads are now included.
Also, it's not just a fine but a criminal record for breaking the rules!
 
Here is a response from Patrick Baxter

Good morning,

Loch Lomond & The Trossachs National Park will welcome campers under its new seasonal camping byelaws which take effect from 1st March 2017. Visitors looking to get out and camp in one of the Park’s camping management zones will require a permit, available from the National Park’s website. The management zones cover only 4% of the Park in the most fragile loch-shore environments. Those looking to camp elsewhere in the park will be unaffected by the byelaws.

Higher resolution images are available on request.

Thanks,

Patrick
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Media Release said:
National Park welcomes campers as new byelaws come into effect

As new camping byelaws come into effect, the Loch Lomond & The Trossachs National Park Authority are reminding visitors that all kinds of camping are still welcome in the Park.

The seasonal byelaws are new regulations which manage pressures and damage caused by camping and firelighting in less than four per cent of the National Park and come into effect on 1st March 2017. Alongside this the Park Authority has provided over 300 camping and motorhome places in the byelaw zones bookable through a new easy to use website.

Gordon Watson, Chief Executive of Loch Lomond & The Trossachs National Park, said: “Camping is one of the best ways to get out and enjoy the stunning surroundings we have in the National Park and there is every kind of camping experience on offer here.

“The new byelaws do not change that. Whether you’re an experienced camper, coming on your own or with your friends and family, there is still a wide choice of places to camp in the National Park. To support this we have opened a new campsite in the Trossachs at Loch Chon and are promoting some excellent locations to ‘wild camp’ with a permit.

“Our focus just now is on making everyone coming to camp in the Park fully aware of how the byelaws work and of all the camping options available to them.”

For those who love the solitude of ‘wild camping’, the vast majority of the Park’s 720 square miles will experience no change to camping at all.

Between March and September, people keen to camp or stay overnight in a motorhome or campervan at one of the many popular and picturesque lochshore locations throughout the Park, can do so by buying a camping permit or booking a pitch at a campsite. Alongside a comprehensive guide to all of the commercial campsites in the National Park, permits are available online from the National Park authority at www.lochlomond-trossachs.org/camping.

In addition to the many privately-run campsites throughout the National Park, there are low-cost, informal campsites with bookable pitches, parking, fresh water and toilets at Loch Chon, and Loch Lubnaig in the Trossachs. There is also Forestry Enterprise Scotland’s campsite at Sallochy on East Loch Lomond.

The byelaws create four Camping Management Zones which will be in place from March to September. To camp in these Zones during this period, visitors will need to have a valid permit to camp in a permit area, or stay over in a campsite.

Camping permits cost just £3 per tent, motorhome or campervan per night and can be booked online up to eight weeks in advance. The new campsite at Loch Chon costs £7 per adult per night, with under-16s going free. Costs at other privately-run campsites vary.

Most laybys are regulated by roads authorities and are not affected by the new camping management byelaws. A small number of laybys within the Camping Management Zones are regulated by the National Park camping management byelaws. These will be clearly marked with signage about the byelaws. Anyone can stop and rest in these laybys during the day but you cannot sleep overnight in your vehicle. Where there are places for motorhomes to stay overnight, there will be specific signs making this clear. Permits for staying overnight in these spaces should be booked online in advance at www.lochlomond-trossachs.org/camping.

The byelaws also cover firelighting. If you have a fire when you are camping it should be small, under control, and you should bring your own firewood. Causing damage such as chopping trees for firewood is also a breach of the byelaws.

The Camping Management Zones are focused around the National Park’s busiest lochshore locations which attract very high numbers of campers year on year. This volume, combined with the antisocial behaviour of a minority of campers over a number of years, has a significantly damaging effect on the environment and a negative impact on other visitors and local communities.

Gordon Watson said: “The aim of the byelaws is to protect these precious locations and make sure everyone can enjoy them now and in the future. Given the dramatic transformation seen on East Loch Lomond since byelaws were introduced there in 2011, we are confident we will see improvements with more responsible behaviour and less damage to the environment.

“Our focus as always is to encourage and support people to enjoy the National Park while at the same time protecting its special environment.

“Our Rangers will continue welcoming people and educating them on all the aspects of the Park. This will include providing information to make sure all visitors can camp responsibly. Our experience on East Loch Lomond is that most people want to do the right thing to help look after such a special place. This is not about looking to catch people out who might be camping in the wrong place; as taking formal action would always be a last resort, but helping them understand where and how they can camp responsibly.

“The first season of the byelaws being in place gives us an opportunity to fine tune their operation. We will be closely monitoring how the byelaws and camping provision are working. In particular, we are keen to gather feedback from campers and other visitors, as well as local communities, and partner organisations through our Stakeholder Forum.”

Anyone camping in Scotland must follow the Scottish Outdoor Access Code which includes adhering to any local byelaws. For more information, please visit www.outdooraccess-scotland.co.uk.

In the most extreme cases of those who refuse to comply with the byelaws, a report could be sent to the Procurator Fiscal who could impose a potential fine of up to £500. Any criminal record would be imposed at the court’s discretion.

Further information about camping in the National Park, including the byelaws, detailed maps of the Camping Management Zones and the booking system for camping permits can be found at www.lochlomond-trossachs.org/camping.
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Camping-in-the-Park-map.jpg
 
2cv said:
I think that this was the case before the bylaws were amended last week, laybys and roads are now included.
Also, it's not just a fine but a criminal record for breaking the rules!
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I wish I had the money and the balls to go have a stopover then, if I got any hassle take them to court ... as far as I am concerned I pay road tax to use the PUBLIC road network. Parking at any time in laybys is within the law and is in fact deemed necessary by the laws of the land if I am too fatiqued to drive safely.

Personally I reckon it's only a matter of time before we will be reading about a story of this kind where someone pursues them in court for refusing us our civil rights.

I certainly hope to see it.
 
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Thanks Phil that made interesting reading. I can see how they need to prevent further abuse of their landscape and regulation of some sort was inevitable.

Because this is new the Park Rangers will assist folks to do the right thing, and a criminal prosecution is a long way down the line if someone fails to comply and is at the discretion of the court anyway.

A permit is only £3. Some of the overnight spots are very cheap. In any case this only applies to 4% of the national park.

If we oppose this we will be seen as part of the rubbish-dumping loutish community.

If a driver is tired and needs to rest they certainly don't need an overnight 8 hours of sleep to recuperate....
 
Auld Pharrrt said:
I wish I had the money and the balls to go have a stopover then, if I getiany hassle take them to court ... as far as I am concerned I pay road tax to use the PUBLIC road network. Parking at any time in laybys is within the law and is in fact deemed necessary by the laws of the land if I am too fatiqued to drive safely.

Personally I reckon it's only a matter of time before we will be reading about a story of this kind where someone pursues them in court for refusing us our civil rights.

I certainly hope to see it.
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indeed it is but i have seen many laybys where the time allowed for parking is limited by signs and backed up by statute .
 
Unauthorised Camping
(7)
It shall be an offence for any person to sleep overnight in a stationary vehicle within a Management Zone unless:
(b) the vehicle is on a road.

And this is where things get interesting
Practical Law ? Books

I would argue that lay-bys as maintained by the highway agency and local authorities roads departments constitute a road. So any parky who comes on all official like and demands to know my details whilst on a road, verge or lay-by will be told in no uncertain terms that his actions are unlawful and if he persists in his harassment at some ungodly hour he will be reported to the police.

However this is unlikely as the parky's I have met, they like to be called countryside rangers, are nice people, and unless you have driven some way off road and churned up the ground you are unlikely to be bothered.

Finally blaming the minority administration in Holyrood is stupid, this has nothing to do with Holyrood, however it could be the answer, but to do that you have to be organised, you have to petition the parliament, and to do that you need a more convincing argument than it "wasn't me"!

So what do we actually want?
 
runnach said:
For me, best way to deal with this unjust situation, is to go elsewhere, that said though, LL&TNP were/are seriously being abused, I seen some of this myself. Another case of the majority being penalised because of a minority group who are only interested in causing mayhem and trashing this beautiful part of our country.
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Indeed, I agree with your post entirely ... but I am fortunate that the only part of this area I am liable to use is the short stretch of the A85 between Killin and Tyndrum, I usually head for a couple of places I like to stopover on either of the two roads just out of Tyndrum heading for Oban or Fort William, both of which are only a few miles outwith these boundaries.

It is a sad state of affairs for the world renowned Scottish hospitality that it has been deemed necessary to make these arrangements and I do sympathise with those that have had to deal with the crap that has probably been the reason for it all, but I still think it is a sad thing to see happening, at least the small stipend is reasonable for a stopover IMHO but I prefer to remember this bonnie area as being the way it was 40 years ago.
 
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Rita and Andrew said:
Unauthorised Camping
(7)
It shall be an offence for any person to sleep overnight in a stationary vehicle within a Management Zone unless:
(b) the vehicle is on a road.

And this is where things get interesting
Practical Law ? Books

I would argue that lay-bys as maintained by the highway agency and local authorities roads departments constitute a road. So any parky who comes on all official like and demands to know my details whilst on a road, verge or lay-by will be told in no uncertain terms that his actions are unlawful and if he persists in his harassment at some ungodly hour he will be reported to the police.

However this is unlikely as the parky's I have met, they like to be called countryside rangers, are nice people, and unless you have driven some way off road and churned up the ground you are unlikely to be bothered.

Finally blaming the minority administration in Holyrood is stupid, this has nothing to do with Holyrood, however it could be the answer, but to do that you have to be organised, you have to petition the parliament, and to do that you need a more convincing argument than it "wasn't me"!

So what do we actually want?
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What I would have liked would be for those who litter, light fires and overstay to be dealt with. This would take a lot of effort, but no more than has happened by targeting everyone.
On the surface much seems reasonable, but the area has effectively been turned into a giant CC site, with early pre booking essential and vans coralled together in specific places.
Targeting the miscreants won't happen now that the work has been done to affect everyone, just hoping that the model does not spread, remember all this started with a small area on the East shore.
 
Just another area to avoid. Wild camping is about picking your own spot not being forced into areas that are easy to police. Prebooking and paying to park up beside the Buckfast Brigade is not for me.
 
Wild camping in a Motorhome? Away don't make me laugh, try staying in a tent on top of a mountain or two days trekking into knoydart! Parking a modest Motorhome or camper van is luxury, all mod cons, warm and dry! That is what freedom to roam is!
This situation was caused by people who think they can just rock up, trash the place and leave, it is the local tax payer and community that have to live with the consequences. I was illegally camping according to some at the weekend, the park authorities were doing work all around and not one approached us! But we had parked in a bay, out of sight of the road. And as you can't pre book to far in advance this should keep the area free, and as for who you park next to, well you never know if the jovial bloke in the van next to you will not kick off after to much vino!

Anyway some way along the road a van a car and a caravan complete with generator was in a lay by, it looked like they had been there for a while, so obviously they were parking legally.

We will be back, wild camping with our central heating, power shower, sky tv, even the kitchen sink, in the knowledge that our £3 will help keep the environment for future generations.

I do think it's best to class this as an aire, and as close to wild camping, or wild parking as you can get 30 minutes drive from one of Scotlands most populated cities.

But remember I am not talking about Loch Lomond.
 
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Tried a couple of times in this area several years back and both times we moved on.

The first time we`d settled down for a quiet night watching a bit of telly when in rolled the travellers and virtually blocked us in.

The second time the Buckfast Brigade turned up with their £9.99 Argos tents and set up something that would rival a fekking festival.

Both times we moved on and went to a car park we knew to stay the night, not ideal but better than the other places.

Haven`t tried again in the area and never will.
 
Rita and Andrew said:
Wild camping in a Motorhome? Away don't make me laugh, try staying in a tent on top of a mountain or two days trekking into knoydart! Parking a modest Motorhome or camper van is luxury, all mod cons, warm and dry! That is what freedom to roam is!
This situation was caused by people who think they can just rock up, trash the place and leave, it is the local tax payer and community that have to live with the consequences. I was illegally camping according to some at the weekend, the park authorities were doing work all around and not one approached us! But we had parked in a bay, out of sight of the road. And as you can't pre book to far in advance this should keep the area free, and as for who you park next to, well you never know if the jovial bloke in the van next to you will not kick off after to much vino!

Anyway some way along the road a van a car and a caravan complete with generator was in a lay by, it looked like they had been there for a while, so obviously they were parking legally.

We will be back, wild camping with our central heating, power shower, sky tv, even the kitchen sink, in the knowledge that our £3 will help keep the environment for future generations.

I do think it's best to class this as an aire, and as close to wild camping, or wild parking as you can get 30 minutes drive from one of Scotlands most populated cities.

But remember I am not talking about Loch Lomond.
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Wildcamping in a motorhome? Yes that's what we call it on this forum. Why waste 2 days walking to the Old Forge? I mountain biked it in a day. I've done over half of the Munroes and slept on the top of a few to photograph the sunrise but I'm now at that time in life when wildcamping in my wee campervan is more pleasurable.
 
caledonia said:
Wildcamping in a motorhome? Yes that's what we call it on this forum. Why waste 2 days walking to the Old Forge? I mountain biked it in a day. I've done over half of the Munroes and slept on the top of a few to photograph the sunrise but I'm now at that time in life when wildcamping in my wee campervan is more pleasurable.
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Yes agreed, but you aren't camping you are parking? And someone pays for that car park, in Scotland the taxpayer pays, so it is not unreasonable to take £3 for the privilege of parking is some amazing areas? And at the same time protect the environment for future generations, to be honest I disagree with the changes but cannot think of a better way to stop the abuse, can anyone?
 
Just been on there web site ran through a booking request for march the first for 1 night just put in loch lomand and it came back with 4 locations with 3 parking spots on each 9 in total there was another spot but did not say how many places available just say that there's 5 at this other location thats 14 places out of there so called 300 if you look these other spots are caravan sites or for tents so it looks like a big load off tosh to get there legislation passed. Imagine July and only 15 wild camping spots and what happens if you buy a permit for one of these spots you turn up and there's already vans parked then what. I could be wrong with my numbers but not by much . 1st of march is a Wednesday in winter I see trouble ahead.
 
From all I have ever seen the majority of rubbish and damage is caused by day and weekend trippers, breaking trees down for fires no toilet arrangements. Then there is the Tinkers.
I remember the trouble they had with the weekend's in Glecoe in the 60's and 70's

Alf
 
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