Is gas still an option?

Well back from a short trip where we used the heater and I paid more attention to what makes it noisy.

The noise is in equal quantity from the burner fan, and the cooling fan. At start up the burner fan makes most of the noise and at shut down, the cooling fan, equally noisy runs on for some time after it has stopped burning. If you use it for room heating, the blower fan to circulate the hot air adds almost nothing extra.

Listening to the fans, neither of them sound broken, worn out, or noisy bearings. Just noisy fans blowing air. So unlike others I still cannot recommend a diesel heater as a good quiet option.

I do have a sound level meter, so perhaps in due course I will go and run it and take some noise readings, but without a benchmark to compare my readings with another set is a bit meaningless.

My only comparison was my previous gas water heater in my last trailer caravan, which would be 20 years old now if I still had it. The gas burner was as inaudible as a gas hob burning, and the flue fan was almost inaudible. The loudest "noise" that ever made was a clonk when the thermostat turned the gas valve on or off, and the very quiet tick tick tick as the spark ignition light the flame.
 
Pudsey Bear said:
Absolutely, we have gas CH, but also a gas fire in the lounge, electric hob/oven, if the power goes off we have the van on the drive so we're covered in reality.
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I would no way have gas heating as you are not allowed to service or touch it, and apart from it may go BANG.
OIl is best.
Why have a gas fire when you have c heating, dont make sense to me.
 
ProDave said:
Well back from a short trip where we used the heater and I paid more attention to what makes it noisy.

The noise is in equal quantity from the burner fan, and the cooling fan. At start up the burner fan makes most of the noise and at shut down, the cooling fan, equally noisy runs on for some time after it has stopped burning. If you use it for room heating, the blower fan to circulate the hot air adds almost nothing extra.

Listening to the fans, neither of them sound broken, worn out, or noisy bearings. Just noisy fans blowing air. So unlike others I still cannot recommend a diesel heater as a good quiet option.

I do have a sound level meter, so perhaps in due course I will go and run it and take some noise readings, but without a benchmark to compare my readings with another set is a bit meaningless.

My only comparison was my previous gas water heater in my last trailer caravan, which would be 20 years old now if I still had it. The gas burner was as inaudible as a gas hob burning, and the flue fan was almost inaudible. The loudest "noise" that ever made was a clonk when the thermostat turned the gas valve on or off, and the very quiet tick tick tick as the spark ignition light the flame.
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Did you delve into checking out how everything is mounted? If vibration from the fans is being transmitted into the cabinetry then it'll be noisy for sure. Even outlet pipes pushed up hard against the cabinet or walls will transmit unwanted noise.
 
barryd said:
is there any way when you have a fixed LPG tank you can somehow have say a 6kg Calor as a backup?
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My van came with an underslung tank and a nearly empty 11KG bottle in the gas locker.
It isn't true to say I never used the bottle.

The regulator on the tank developed a fault and would sometimes lock out.

The way to unlock it was to put pressure on the low side, which simply meant turning the bottle on for a few seconds.

This happened maybe half a dozen times in a year or two, then I fixed the problem.
At that point, the bottle was even nearer empty, so it moved to the shed, where it presumably still is. That shed is falling down and opening the doors is a non-trivial task.

So although it is possible to have a tank and a bottle, few would bother, with bottles being so much more hassle and far more expensive.

LPG is generally around £1 per litre (£2 per KG) at present, which is far cheaper than diesel, KWh for KWh, but bottled gas is at least twice as expensive, plus the gas wasted if you swap a bottle before it is empty, or the hassle if you wait until it runs out.

I like refillable gas: convenient, powerful and cheap. But swapping gas bottles is a real hassle. I'd never want to go back to that.
 
barryd said:
How do you manage to live off grid in the depths of winter? Must be a pretty good solar set up.
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I have never found anyone who can manage on solar in winter in the UK. You can go days or weeks with effectively zero sun.
I've found several.people who claim to only use solar, but they use a generator, hookup or b2b on a regular basis.
 
Geek said:
I have never found anyone who can manage on solar in winter in the UK. You can go days or weeks with effectively zero sun.
I've found several.people who claim to only use solar, but they use a generator, hookup or b2b on a regular basis.
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I think Barry misread my post I didn't claim to live off solar in the winter I use LPG and was making the point that LPG is still very much an option for some people, especially those who live full time in the UK in the winter ;)

Regards,
Del
 
Geek said:
My van came with an underslung tank and a nearly empty 11KG bottle in the gas locker.
It isn't true to say I never used the bottle.

The regulator on the tank developed a fault and would sometimes lock out.

The way to unlock it was to put pressure on the low side, which simply meant turning the bottle on for a few seconds.

This happened maybe half a dozen times in a year or two, then I fixed the problem.
At that point, the bottle was even nearer empty, so it moved to the shed, where it presumably still is. That shed is falling down and opening the doors is a non-trivial task.

So although it is possible to have a tank and a bottle, few would bother, with bottles being so much more hassle and far more expensive.

LPG is generally around £1 per litre (£2 per KG) at present, which is far cheaper than diesel, KWh for KWh, but bottled gas is at least twice as expensive, plus the gas wasted if you swap a bottle before it is empty, or the hassle if you wait until it runs out.

I like refillable gas: convenient, powerful and cheap. But swapping gas bottles is a real hassle. I'd never want to go back to that.
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My system is pretty easy to use. I generally try to keep the Gaslow topped up but its not always possible so I usually swap to the Calor when I reckon there is a litre or two left in the Gaslow. Its just a case of turning one off and opening the other. If I still haven't been able to top up the Gaslow by the time the Calor runs out ill swap back to the Gaslow as it still has a litre or two in it and go off with the Calor on the back of the bike to get a full one. A larger Gaslow cylinder would be better but it is what it is.

For us relying on just a refillable or even a fixed tank runs the risk of running out of gas and not being able to fill.
 
He said:-

"I usually swap to the Calor when I reckon there is a litre or two left in the Gaslow"


Why? Run the Gaslow out; you might find more before you run it out and not need the Calor at all. I try not to use the Calor if possible, but I certainly don't waste the expensive gas by saving the cheap gas.

I suppose if you're ensconced on a site and not moving for a few days, and Calor is handy to run and get some on the scooter, fair enough, but we don't, and my opinion is based on that.
 
TJBi said:
??? @barryd waits till the Calor is empty, so not wasting any.
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Exactly. If we are somewhere for several weeks its best to leave a couple of litres in the Gaslow as the Calor will at some point run out and if its in the evening or a Sunday it might be difficult to just go off and get one so I can quickly switch to the reserve left in the Gaslow and just go and get another Calor as soon as I can. That way I will never run out of gas.

Its rare this method is needed but it has happened. They are only 6kg bottles so they don't last that long. Couple of weeks or so in summer but less if you start using heating.
 
In a previous motorhome, I couldnt get two sensible sized bottles in the locker, so it was one 12KG propane and one 6KG propane.
Despite the size difference, swapping the bottles cost more or less the same.

Whenever preparing for a trip away, I needed to be sure of enough gas in at least one bottle, and a sensible reserve in the other.

It is 15 years since I sold that van, and longer than that since I last used it, so I forget the gory detail, but...

Generally I tried to only use the 11 as a gas supply, and switched to the 6 for the time between running out and getting the replacement.

Eventually the 6 would get too near to empty to be a safe standby, so I then used it until it ran out, then I replaced that.

I can't quite get my head round the idea of switching to a swappable bottle when you still have some gas left in a refillable. Why would you do that?

In the last 16 years I have never run out of gas. I top the underslung tank up long before it is anywhere near empty, or whenever I pass LPG at a reasonable price.
 
barryd said:
They are only 6kg bottles so they don't last that long. Couple of weeks or so in summer but less if you start using heating.
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Seems odd.

Our tank easily manages two or three months, even running a big fridge freezer and some heating and hot water.

Yes, it is about 28KG of LPG, but I guess 6KG would last more than a fifth as long, and our van is presumably a bit bigger: the gas locker easily holds 2x13KG.

Are you sure you dont have a leak?
 
Geek said:
I can't quite get my head round the idea of switching to a swappable bottle when you still have some gas left in a refillable. Why would you do that?

In the last 16 years I have never run out of gas. I top the underslung tank up long before it is anywhere near empty, or whenever I pass LPG at a reasonable price.
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Because as I said if you let the refillable run completely empty then switch to the Calor once that empties you are left without any gas until you can go and get another Calor. Lets say the Calor bottle runs out at 6pm or on a Sunday and any near stockists are shut. I'll have no fridge, cooker or heating until I can replace it. Unlikely but it has happened.
 
Geek said:
Seems odd.

Our tank easily manages two or three months, even running a big fridge freezer and some heating and hot water.

Yes, it is about 28KG of LPG, but I guess 6KG would last more than a fifth as long, and our van is presumably a bit bigger: the gas locker easily holds 2x13KG.

Are you sure you dont have a leak?
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Absolutely positive I don't have a leak. A 6kg Gaslow bottle holds 11.5 litres I believe. Summer usage is generally about 0.75 litres a day roughly as long as no heating is used. Thats completely off grid of course. No hookup and generally often without moving the van or not very much. A lot of people do a lot of driving I guess each day so their fridge will be on 12v. We do a lot less as we spend more time out on the bike. Our first van we had for 16 years was about the same.
 
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