Is gas still an option?

[Boris7]

All in all gas is becoming outdated, many reasons for such including H&S and environmental concerns. in the motorhome I only use gas as a backup heat supply and to run the BBQ and to be honest that will go in the not too distant future.

No gas at home anymore either, completely self sufficient nowadays, still have mains electricity but again that's just there as a back up (except the 3p I end up paying each day and just can't track down )

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Don't you have the standing charge rip off?

 

[Boris7]

yes Kev currently 53p/day for electricity and 29p/day for gas , I'm happy with the electric standing charge as if my own "power plant" goes wrong then mains power steps in automatically.

But the gas pees me off, in fairness its not been that long since I dumped gas, but the meter no longer connects to any devises so they could remove it (and the 29p/day) but they are dragging their heels.

 

[Okta]

Mine is a Truma diesel combo as well. And mine at times is like a jet engine spooling up.

Either mine is a completely different heater to yours, or mine is faulty and should not sound like a jet engine, or yours is in a well soundproofed seat locker.

There is clearly more to this topic. It is not as simple as mine is noisy, oh yes it is, oh no it isn't.

I can look up the exact model number tomorrow to carry on this with some facts. But as far as I can tell these type of diesel heaters are drip feed burners (not pressure jet) and employ a fan for the combustion air, very similar in operation principle to Eberspacher and similar diesel space heaters of which I have one in my boat. It too is noisy but not as noisy as my Truma, I always thought because it is a smaller lower power heater so a smaller fan blowing, and in the boat it is located in a cockpit locker so the noise would not transmit to the cabin as well as my heater in a cupboard inside.

I would hate someone to specify a diesel heater when ordering a new 'van because they were told it was as quiet as a gas heater, and then end up with one like I have that is anything but quiet.

This really is not my experience. My Truma diesel D6E Combi was fitted last year to replace the gas version and I truly do not find the noise level very different. Both the gas and diesel versions are noisier when working flat out at 6kW but a good deal of that is the circulation fan blowing hard to move the heat around the van, not combustion noises.

There are two versions of the Truma diesel combi. The older Generation 1 version had a rectangular flue with separate air and exhaust inlets and looks like this.

The Gen 2 version has a balanced flue with a single round external vent that is almost identical to the gas version except that is black and includes a spacing ring. It fits the same hole as the gas combi one which makes swapping from gas to diesel much easier. The Gen 2 version has more sophisticated combustion control than the Gen 1 version. Perhaps the two versions sound different.

I have heard Eberspacher type diesel heaters that sound like a jet engine winding up but honestly this is not my experience with the Gen 2 Truma diesel combi with the single round vent.

 

[ProDave]

Here is mine, inside it's cupboard.

It's a Combi D version D4E

The exhaust vent is just a small round vent on the side of the van so unless someone tells me otherwise I suspect it draws it's combustion air from inside the 'van? It is that thick black pipe that runs from the heater to the flue vent.

You can see two griles on the inside behind each is a fan. One controls the flow of combustion air, that runs when it is heating anything and that is the noisy one. It has a long shut down (presumably cooling) cycle after the burner has finished firing. The other fan is to circulate heating air to the room when it is space heating, that one is not very noisy.

I would be interested to see a picture of the inside bit of the quiet ones. I suspect we are talking about 2 completely different heaters and if so mine is the one you should not be specifying in a new van.

 

[Geek]

If I were to get another van, it would need to have a garage for the scooter and wheelchair, but it would also have a good-sized proper gas locker built into it for 2 or even 3 11kg Gaslow cylinders, I'm not a great fan of underslung cylinders.

I've never seen the point of having several small refillables. With one big one, you only have one to top up, and you never run out of gas.

 

[colinm]

Here is mine, inside it's cupboard.

View attachment 207453

It's a Combi D version D4E

The exhaust vent is just a small round vent on the side of the van so unless someone tells me otherwise I suspect it draws it's combustion air from inside the 'van? It is that thick black pipe that runs from the heater to the flue vent.

You can see two griles on the inside behind each is a fan. One controls the flow of combustion air, that runs when it is heating anything and that is the noisy one. It has a long shut down (presumably cooling) cycle after the burner has finished firing. The other fan is to circulate heating air to the room when it is space heating, that one is not very noisy.

I would be interested to see a picture of the inside bit of the quiet ones. I suspect we are talking about 2 completely different heaters and if so mine is the one you should not be specifying in a new van.

That looks like the standard balanced flue set up, the outer pipe is the air drawn in, inside that will be a pipe for the exhaust.
Peoples perception of noise varies, and don't forget many on here are old deaf gits

 

[colinm]

Forum is so slow I assumed post hadn't gone so tapped 'post' again, then got a double post

 

[ProDave]

Peoples perception of noise varies, and don't forget many on here are old deaf gits

Looks like I have passed my hearing test then.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

I've never seen the point of having several small refillables. With one big one, you only have one to top up, and you never run out of gas.

The cost of a 6kg Gaslow fits my budget and has proved to be big enough so far.

 

[Fazerloz]

Mine is a Truma diesel combo as well. And mine at times is like a jet engine spooling up.

Either mine is a completely different heater to yours, or mine is faulty and should not sound like a jet engine, or yours is in a well soundproofed seat locker.

There is clearly more to this topic. It is not as simple as mine is noisy, oh yes it is, oh no it isn't.

I can look up the exact model number tomorrow to carry on this with some facts. But as far as I can tell these type of diesel heaters are drip feed burners (not pressure jet) and employ a fan for the combustion air, very similar in operation principle to Eberspacher and similar diesel space heaters of which I have one in my boat. It too is noisy but not as noisy as my Truma, I always thought because it is a smaller lower power heater so a smaller fan blowing, and in the boat it is located in a cockpit locker so the noise would not transmit to the cabin as well as my heater in a cupboard inside.

I would hate someone to specify a diesel heater when ordering a new 'van because they were told it was as quiet as a gas heater, and then end up with one like I have that is anything but quiet.

The Truma combi gas ones at times are the same for ramping up, up or should I say ours was. What I do know is our diesel Combi is quiet inside the van but not as quiet as gas on the outside of the van on the exhaust note. It is not installed in a soundproofed seat locker either.

 

[Fazerloz]

Here is mine, inside it's cupboard.

View attachment 207453

It's a Combi D version D4E

The exhaust vent is just a small round vent on the side of the van so unless someone tells me otherwise I suspect it draws it's combustion air from inside the 'van? It is that thick black pipe that runs from the heater to the flue vent.

You can see two griles on the inside behind each is a fan. One controls the flow of combustion air, that runs when it is heating anything and that is the noisy one. It has a long shut down (presumably cooling) cycle after the burner has finished firing. The other fan is to circulate heating air to the room when it is space heating, that one is not very noisy.

I would be interested to see a picture of the inside bit of the quiet ones. I suspect we are talking about 2 completely different heaters and if so mine is the one you should not be specifying in a new van.

The top fan you can see is just a cooling fan for the combustion fan motor and board. Combustion air comes from outside the van and works the same in both gas and diesel heaters. Ducting air comes from inside that cupboard through the bottom fan.. Now I have seen your installation I am not surprised you find it noisy. The vast majority will not have such an installation.

 

[ProDave]

Now I have seen your installation I am not surprised you find it noisy. The vast majority will not have such an installation.

So what about my installation makes it noisy? Is it that it's in a waist level cupboard with a poor fitting door so you will hear the noise easily vs and under seat locker likely to block the nose a lot more? Or something "wrong" with the install?

 

[Okta]

Here is mine, inside it's cupboard.

View attachment 207453

It's a Combi D version D4E

The exhaust vent is just a small round vent on the side of the van so unless someone tells me otherwise I suspect it draws it's combustion air from inside the 'van? It is that thick black pipe that runs from the heater to the flue vent.

You can see two griles on the inside behind each is a fan. One controls the flow of combustion air, that runs when it is heating anything and that is the noisy one. It has a long shut down (presumably cooling) cycle after the burner has finished firing. The other fan is to circulate heating air to the room when it is space heating, that one is not very noisy.

I would be interested to see a picture of the inside bit of the quiet ones. I suspect we are talking about 2 completely different heaters and if so mine is the one you should not be specifying in a new van.

My D6E looks the same as your D4E.

The combustion fan is inside the unit, it is room sealed and you can not see it. It draws air in from the outside of external vent which is warmed by the exhaust gas flowing through an inner tube to the middle part of the external vent. The big visible fan on the boiler is the hot air circulation fan and the smaller one cools the electronics. If the small one is making a lot of noise then I suspect the unit is getting too hot. This could be caused by too little air circulating through the hot air circulation system which plays a big part in keeping the unit from overheating. The heat that the unit produces needs to be circulated through the living space and drawn back into the unit for reheating when it has cooled. If this circulation is not as effective as it should be then the unit could get very hot. I suggest this might need checking. From one picture it is difficult to tell whether there might be an installation issue but I have been looking at the installation manual and can see a couple of areas that might be worth looking at.

Firstly I can’t see a vent in the door or boxing near the circulating fan. This is a picture from the manual.

Secondly I can only see one hot air duct leaving the boiler, there should be four but only using 3 is allowed. If only 3 outlets are used the redundant one must be one of the lower outlets and it must be blanked off with a special moulded part. There may well be other ducts I can’t see in the picture but you do need to make sure none of the heated air is escaping directly into the boiler enclosure because this could be the reason the small fan is having to work too hard.

 

[Okta]

Or something "wrong" with the install?

That is my first suspicion, see #74.

 

[ProDave]

Thanks, there are 4 heater hoses exiting, the obvious one goes to an outlet to the main room close by and lower left to an outlet in the wc. The two right ones go to outlets at the front of the main room.

I can't see it complies with that 150cm air flow. There is a gap at the bottom of the door about 1cm by 30 cm. But surely that is only an issue when heating the room? When just heating hot water that room circulating fan won't be on. In any event I will try it next time with the door ajar to ensure enough ventilation.

 

[korky]

I've never seen the point of having several small refillables. With one big one, you only have one to top up, and you never run out of gas.

On many vans, particular if they are already converted,chassis constraints and pre-fitted items such as waste tanks often make it that the choice of underslung gas tanks is restricted to small capacities.

 

[colinm]

Thanks, there are 4 heater hoses exiting, the obvious one goes to an outlet to the main room close by and lower left to an outlet in the wc. The two right ones go to outlets at the front of the main room.

I can't see it complies with that 150cm air flow. There is a gap at the bottom of the door about 1cm by 30 cm. But surely that is only an issue when heating the room? When just heating hot water that room circulating fan won't be on. In any event I will try it next time with the door ajar to ensure enough ventilation.

The vent inlet might be a bit small aside from that looks similar to installation seen on thousands of vans.