Inverter Installation - fuse - isolation switch?

[trevskoda]

Yes, can't see the need for an inverter earth, so unless someone can explain the science behind having it earthed I won't bother.

Same as what? Battery negative vehicle body?

It's1000W and will be used for laptop and camera battery charging, for which the inverter is more than enough but I have gone through a number of smaller / cheaper inverters so I have gone a bit over-the-top for this one.

You dont use an inverter for that, for £14 pounds you can get a 12v to 19v laptop charger, and also cheap usb sockets for phones.
An inverter will eat battery and not required for what you want, save your money and you batteries.

 

[wildebus]

Yes, can't see the need for an inverter earth, so unless someone can explain the science behind having it earthed I won't bother.

Same as what? Battery negative vehicle body?

The same connection as the negative is on. As you have said, it is the same one, even if you physically connect to the same point or not.

It's1000W and will be used for laptop and camera battery charging, for which the inverter is more than enough but I have gone through a number of smaller / cheaper inverters so I have gone a bit over-the-top for this one.

 

[wildebus]

You dont use an inverter for that, for £14 pounds you can get a 12v to 19v laptop charger, and also cheap usb sockets for phones.
An inverter will eat battery and not required for what you want, save your money and you batteries.View attachment 119528View attachment 119529View attachment 119530View attachment 119531

The advantage of using an inverter for that type of charging is you don't have to buy extra adapters to suit specific devices and products, you just plug in what you have at home, and if you change laptop or get a different battery charger, you can plug that in immediately, not have to got and find - and pay for - yet another adapter.

Efficiency is not just about power - it is also about cost, time and simplicity. And the use of an inverter can trump power-efficiency with its other benefits in many cases.

 

[merl]

When talking inverter earthing things can get confusing because there are 2 earth points to consider, the earthing of the 240v output and in the case of UFOs question what to do with the tag on the case of the inverter itself. The 240v output from the inverter will be floating and not referenced to the 12v supply or earth in any way and is extremely safe to use to supply a single piece of apparatus because there is no actual 'live' with respect to earth. Things get theoretically more dangerous when you supply more than 1 item at the same time but I'll not address that situation right now.
As for the case earth tag. I can't for the life of me see why it's included and why the manufacturer's don't just connect the case to the neg (0V) supply internally and scrap the tag???? Answers on a postcard

 

[merl]

Yes, can't see the need for an inverter earth, so unless someone can explain the science behind having it earthed I won't bother.

Same as what? Battery negative vehicle body?

It's1000W and will be used for laptop and camera battery charging, for which the inverter is more than enough but I have gone through a number of smaller / cheaper inverters so I have gone a bit over-the-top for this one.

Theoretically I guess, something could happen to a stray wire inside the inverter and the case could get connected to one of the output pins of the 13A outlet socket, now IF a similar fault happened inside a metal cased appliance like a toaster where the opposite socket terminal got connected to the toaster case AND you touched the toaster case and the inverter case simultaneously then you'd get a belt. Sort of an inverse lottery win

 

[wildebus]

When talking inverter earthing things can get confusing because there are 2 earth points to consider, the earthing of the 240v output and in the case of UFOs question what to do with the tag on the case of the inverter itself. The 240v output from the inverter will be floating and not referenced to the 12v supply or earth in any way and is extremely safe to use to supply a single piece of apparatus because there is no actual 'live' with respect to earth. Things get theoretically more dangerous when you supply more than 1 item at the same time but I'll not address that situation right now.
As for the case earth tag. I can't for the life of me see why it's included and why the manufacturer's don't just connect the case to the neg (0V) supply internally and scrap the tag???? Answers on a postcard

I don't know why either. It could well be some regulation that anything metal should be grounded?
It does take into account those situations where the 0V on the DC system is NOT connected to the chassis and so any metal casing is deliberately electrically seperate from the 0V DC inside the device and can be grounded to the chassis without creating that 0V - Chassis connection?
It is not just inverters. If you look at the Victron range, they have a ground point on the Multipluses and the MPPT Controllers as well.

 

[trevskoda]

The advantage of using an inverter for that type of charging is you don't have to buy extra adapters to suit specific devices and products, you just plug in what you have at home, and if you change laptop or get a different battery charger, you can plug that in immediately, not have to got and find - and pay for - yet another adapter.

Efficiency is not just about power - it is also about cost, time and simplicity. And the use of an inverter can trump power-efficiency with its other benefits in many cases.

The multi adoptor fits all laptops , and usp sockets charge every ph device, we charge phones etc as kids would die without the smart ph.

 

[merl]

The multi adoptor fits all laptops , and usp sockets charge every ph device, we charge phones etc as kids would die without the smart ph.

I've had one for quite a few years
now for my laptop. Seems to do a strange pulsing thing while charging about once a second but it works, changed laptop and just changed the plug and voltage switch. Doesn't get particular warm so it's got to be reasonably efficient.
Although so far it's stood the test of time it's obviously cheep and cheerful and Chinese so I didn't leave it charging while we're not in the van just in case.

 

[trevskoda]

I've had one for quite a few years
now for my laptop. Seems to do a strange pulsing thing while charging about once a second but it works, changed laptop and just changed the plug and voltage switch. Doesn't get particular warm so it's got to be reasonably efficient.
Although so far it's stood the test of time it's obviously cheep and cheerful and Chinese so I didn't leave it charging while we're not in the van just in case.

Yes true, you can also buy a charging voltage buck on a board, simple to fit in a small case from ebay, works out at £12 for 800w unit, I have a 300w one to step up for my tv as it cuts the sound below 12.6v, so it ups it to 14.3v and stays stable nomater how far down the battery is.

 

[wildebus]

The multi adoptor fits all laptops , and usp sockets charge every ph device, we charge phones etc as kids would die without the smart ph.

USB powered devices? sure, be silly not to use a USB socket run by 12V. However .....

not ALL laptops. I can guarantee that.
and battery chargers? got at least 3 different types. - one for 12V/10.8V lithium batteries, one for 18V lithium batteries and one for 36V Lithium Batteries. How much would it cost to get DC-DC converters for those compared to just plugging in the chargers you already own (so are free) to a single power source e.g. an inverter with a 240V socket.

Sorry Trev, you are not convincing me.

 

[merl]

USB powered devices? sure, be silly not to use a USB socket run by 12V. However .....

not ALL laptops. I can guarantee that.
and battery chargers? got at least 3 different types. - one for 12V/10.8V lithium batteries, one for 18V lithium batteries and one for 36V Lithium Batteries. How much would it cost to get DC-DC converters for those compared to just plugging in the chargers you already own (so are free) to a single power source e.g. an inverter with a 240V socket.

Sorry Trev, you are not convincing me.

USB powered devices? sure, be silly not to use a USB socket run by 12V. However .....

not ALL laptops. I can guarantee that.
and battery chargers? got at least 3 different types. - one for 12V/10.8V lithium batteries, one for 18V lithium batteries and one for 36V Lithium Batteries. How much would it cost to get DC-DC converters for those compared to just plugging in the chargers you already own (so are free) to a single power source e.g. an inverter with a 240V socket.

Sorry Trev, you are not convincing me.

Another case where one size fits all doesn't apply. It'll all depend on personal circumstances.

 

[trevskoda]

USB powered devices? sure, be silly not to use a USB socket run by 12V. However .....

not ALL laptops. I can guarantee that.
and battery chargers? got at least 3 different types. - one for 12V/10.8V lithium batteries, one for 18V lithium batteries and one for 36V Lithium Batteries. How much would it cost to get DC-DC converters for those compared to just plugging in the chargers you already own (so are free) to a single power source e.g. an inverter with a 240V socket.

Sorry Trev, you are not convincing me.

You can change the voltage on many of the cigy plug chargers, most go from 3v to 19v, you can get others, I do have a small 600w inverter which in truth will run just over 450w, one for my we fridge and one up front for a power socket to run a 450w plug in heater for winter warming before the van heater kicks in, wife requires this and im not one to argue.

 

[UFO]

You dont use an inverter for that, for £14 pounds you can get a 12v to 19v laptop charger, and also cheap usb sockets for phones.
An inverter will eat battery and not required for what you want, save your money and you batteries.

My laptop PSU is 180W so using an 80W £14 PSU would be a waste of £14 as you would be left with a pile of melted plastic and smoke. So an inverter is needed, also for charging camera batteries, so may as well get a quality inverter that has some spare capacity. Other devices are charged via a 5-way USB hub.

Sorry Trev, you are not convincing me.

Me neither

Efficiency is not just about power - it is also about cost, time and simplicity. And the use of an inverter can trump power-efficiency with its other benefits in many cases.

A good point

Another case where one size fits all doesn't apply. It'll all depend on personal circumstances.

Agreed - always a good to fully understand the specific user's requirements, see post #8, before making recommendations,

 

[Winterskp]

We each had an "identical" notebook pc a few years ago, so only took one supplied mains charging cable with us. It wouldn't change one of them from our 300W modified sine wave inverter. Later we got a Lenovo laptop and it changed fine from the same inverter . . . But since the cooling fan wouldn't run while charging, a safety device tripped and it wouldn't restart. Cost 25€ for a technician to disconnect the battery and reconnect. I did it myself after that, but cured the problem with a 600W pure sine wave inverter. Which blew up last trip!
Buy a good quality pure sine wave inverter with a guarantee.

 

[trevskoda]

My laptop PSU is 180W so using an 80W £14 PSU would be a waste of £14 as you would be left with a pile of melted plastic and smoke. So an inverter is needed, also for charging camera batteries, so may as well get a quality inverter that has some spare capacity. Other devices are charged via a 5-way USB hub.

It just takes longer to charge, something you do when driving or sleeping, nothing will melt.

 

[marchie]

I thought it was in USA where they are supposed to connect inverter earth to chassis? We have probably had this discussion a few times but the sieve that it my memory doesn’t recall. I know I don’t connect inverter earth

Those whose mantra is 'You learn something new everyday', don't realise, Neil, that they learned the something new yesterday, but have forgotten it overnight ...

My memory's not as good as I seem to recall that it used to be; assuming, of course, that I remember correctly ... And, if my memory's so good, why do I need incontinence pads? There's no forgetting the signals from the bladder ... Old age, eh? Can't remember who coined that expression ... I 8think8 it's time for my tablets again ...

Steve

 

[Nabsim]

Those whose mantra is 'You learn something new everyday', don't realise, Neil, that they learned the something new yesterday, but have forgotten it overnight ...

My memory's not as good as I seem to recall that it used to be; assuming, of course, that I remember correctly ... And, if my memory's so good, why do I need incontinence pads? There's no forgetting the signals from the bladder ... Old age, eh? Can't remember who coined that expression ... I 8think8 it's time for my tablets again ...

Steve

Unless they are actually keeping you alive try stopping the tablets my memory has actually improved slightly

 

[ChrisInNotts]

Funnily enough, yesterday I was playing with laptop charging as we are taking it away with us soon. We have a 300W inverter and it takes 3.5 amps if I use the 20V mains adapter. If I use my cheap DC DC converter to feed it from the habitation battery then it only uses 2.5 amps. Not so much difference though every bit does help. Mind you, charging 2 modern smart phones via usb is a big hit on the battery these days.

Keith