HYDROGEN ASSIST for Petrol or Diesel

[RoadTrek Boy]

You orrible lot have given me food for thought, especially Zzippy, with HA giving a cleaner burn I was wondering what my emissions would be without the cat, unfortunately, my cat is part of the two down pipes, plus the front and rear O2 sensors so no way to easily remove to do a test (I'm sure my local friendly MOT station would test for a small fee) a replacement would be approx £150 to £200 plus shipping from the states, so have you lot got any ideas! :idea:
Now, where could I find a knackered one.

 

[Teutone]

You orrible lot have given me food for thought, especially Zzippy, with HA giving a cleaner burn I was wondering what my emissions would be without the cat, unfortunately, my cat is part of the two down pipes, plus the front and rear O2 sensors so no way to easily remove to do a test (I'm sure my local friendly MOT station would test for a small fee) a replacement would be approx £150 to £200 plus shipping from the states, so have you lot got any ideas! :idea:
Now, where could I find a knackered one.

I wouldn't remove the cat from a car running a 2 o2 sensor setup. Very very likely that you engine management light will come on after a while because the 2nd sensor will not see the emission values as expected and flag up an error in the ECU.

I can't understand why so many people want to remove the CAT. What do you expect to gain from this?
Except from polluting the environment, there is no real world benefit.

 

[Rapido]

Perhaps I’m missing something why on earth would you want to remove the cat, by removing the cat it will give you an increase in power but engine management warning light will be visible and the vehicle will not be MOT compliant.
With HHO you can increase the power and still comply with MOT reg’s and your insurance will not be affected.

On this forum there are lots of people that have a problem with HHO, that’s fine but it’s working for me and I’m more than happy.

Regards
Ray

 

[Firefox]

We would be better off debating HHO generators. Removing the CAT and "selling it to the scrappy" really was a dreadful suggestion which has no merit or discussion value whatsoever.

At least with HHO you only lose a bit of money, not your MOT and use of your vehicle

 

[Robmac]

We would be better off debating HHO generators. Removing the CAT and "selling it to the scrappy" really was a dreadful suggestion which has no merit or discussion value whatsoever.

At least with HHO you only lose a bit of money, not your MOT and use of your vehicle

Problem is Vern, somebody else is always willing to remove the Cat for you, as I have found to my expense!

 

[Teutone]

I have to say that I am on the (very) sceptical side. I would be more than surprised if these systems really work and perform as advertised. Word of mouth would sell them like hot cakes and everybody and his dog would want to open a small garage to sell and fit them.

I am open minded and will consider that they are working BUT without proper proof, I am a non believer.

It puzzles me that nobody does some simple test. Stick it on a Dyno with an exhaust gas reader and off you go. Some science applied and methodical testing and we will know what is going on. Simples.
And not "i can pull up hill xyz in 5th gear now". (not meant to be offensive)

 

[Firefox]

Proper tests have been done, and all have proved to be negative. That's why the devices are not mainstream fit, but instead fringe technology, sold to the unwary, or else, as has been alluded to by one of the participants here, they may produce a placebo effect.

Nothing wrong with a placebo, as long as you are aware what you are buying into.

 

[RoadTrek Boy]

I have just re-read my last post and it's seems very clear, but I will try and make it very very obvious what I was saying.

(1) I would like to remove the cat SO THAT I CAN GET THE VEHICLE TESTED to see how clean the emissions are using HA without a cat, being a 5.2L V8 gas guzzler without HA or a cat I would think that the emissions would be pretty horrendous.
(2) The O2 sensors would need to be in the system, otherwise it would screw the system and throw a fault.
(3) I never suggested leaving the cat off permanently, IT WAS TO CONDUCT A TEST (Which of course, the experts among you already know couldn't possibly work)
(4) That's why I would like to get my hands on a knackered one, I do not wish to damage my existing one.

I do hope that explains why I wish to have a play without the cat! :mad1:

 

[Teutone]

I have just re-read my last post and it's seems very clear, but I will try and make it very very obvious what I was saying.

(1) I would like to remove the cat SO THAT I CAN GET THE VEHICLE TESTED to see how clean the emissions are using HA without a cat, being a 5.2L V8 gas guzzler without HA or a cat I would think that the emissions would be pretty horrendous.
(2) The O2 sensors would need to be in the system, otherwise it would screw the system and throw a fault.
(3) I never suggested leaving the cat off permanently, IT WAS TO CONDUCT A TEST (Which of course, the experts among you already know couldn't possibly work)
(4) That's why I would like to get my hands on a knackered one, I do not wish to damage my existing one.

I do hope that explains why I wish to have a play without the cat! :mad1:

The size of your engine has nothing to do with how good or bad your emissions are. It is measured as % value. If your engine is in good mechanical condition and the tuning is spot on, the emission will be ok.

The problems you will face are the limits of CO applied to a CAT engine to pass a test. A healthy well tune engine will produce 2.5% CO without a CAT give or take. If you run it any leaner, you will risk of mechanical failure.
For a CAT equipped engine, you need to show 0.1% CO. To achieve this value, you NEED a catalitic converter. As simple as that.
Cars with ONE 02 sensor just measure the exhaust gasses BEFORE the CAT and tell the ECU to lean or richen up. If you remove the CAT, this function is still working but will not light up the Engine check light
Then they introduced setups with TWO o2 sensors. With this sensor 1 is measuring what comes out of the engine before CAT and tells the ECU what to do. Sensor TWO BEHIND the cat is then controlling this to make sure that the emissions are achieved as desired to make sure your CAT is still in working order.
So if you remove the CAT, sensor two will measure too high and flag up an error --> engine light on.

From my point of view, you are wasting your time playing around with it. But I bet it will be good fun.:banana:

You need to find out what emssion test you have to past with your vehicle. Depending on age, you may well be tested to no CAT values. Means you could fit an empty CAT (for not failing visual test) and still passing emissions test.
Does this make sense?

 

[RoadTrek Boy]

The size of your engine has nothing to do with how good or bad your emissions are. It is measured as % value. If your engine is in good mechanical condition and the tuning is spot on, the emission will be ok.

The problems you will face are the limits of CO applied to a CAT engine to pass a test. A healthy well tune engine will produce 2.5% CO without a CAT give or take. If you run it any leaner, you will risk of mechanical failure.
For a CAT equipped engine, you need to show 0.1% CO. To achieve this value, you NEED a catalitic converter. As simple as that.
Cars with ONE 02 sensor just measure the exhaust gasses BEFORE the CAT and tell the ECU to lean or richen up. If you remove the CAT, this function is still working but will not light up the Engine check light
Then they introduced setups with TWO o2 sensors. With this sensor 1 is measuring what comes out of the engine before CAT and tells the ECU what to do. Sensor TWO BEHIND the cat is then controlling this to make sure that the emissions are achieved as desired to make sure your CAT is still in working order.
So if you remove the CAT, sensor two will measure too high and flag up an error --> engine light on.

From my point of view, you are wasting your time playing around with it. But I bet it will be good fun.:banana:

You need to find out what emission test you have to past with your vehicle. Depending on age, you may well be tested to no CAT values. Means you could fit an empty CAT (for not failing visual test) and still passing emissions test.
Does this make sense?

Sorry Teutone for not seeing this earlier, the idea behind removing the internals of the cat is to prove that the emissions would still pass the MOT, I have a printout of emissions with the cat in place BUT NO Hydrogen assist fitted, as HA gives a much cleaner burn I would like to test to see just how much cleaner it is..
I hope this makes sense. :idea: