Handbrake slipped

[pochaie]

Oppps

I found out with my Fiat 3.0l auto does not have a park position only handbrake!!!! and the people at Southdown motors did not tell me i had to find out myself and nearly came a cropper!!

 

[mark61]

I found out with my Fiat 3.0l auto does not have a park position only handbrake!!!! and the people at Southdown motors did not tell me i had to find out myself and nearly came a cropper!!

Good point. I assume thats because it's one of these automatic manuals, rather then a conventional auto. Is it possible to leave a vehicle in gear with one of these?

 

[Polar Bear]

I found out with my Fiat 3.0l auto does not have a park position only handbrake!!!! and the people at Southdown motors did not tell me i had to find out myself and nearly came a cropper!!

A full automatic gearbox can be the death of the parking brake when people rely on its park facility to hold their cars and never use the parking brake - they then call me names when the parking brake does not work on MOT and I fail it.

 

[flyinghigh]

Good point. I assume thats because it's one of these automatic manuals, rather then a conventional auto. Is it possible to leave a vehicle in gear with one of these?

Yes if you select a gear then switch of the engine then most will leave it in gear for you, normaly when
You go to restart the auto function will select neutral before allowing the starter motor to operate,

Also some information about handbrakes that operate using the rear brake calipers, if you have been using the brakes firmly before parking up, make sure you leave her in gear because many cars with this arrangement move off on there own, what happens is the pads and discs are warm/ hot but when they cool down the discs thrink and the pads loose there grip and away goes the car down any inclines,

 

[Polar Bear]

Yes if you select a gear then switch of the engine then most will leave it in gear for you, normaly when
You go to restart the auto function will select neutral before allowing the starter motor to operate,

Also some information about handbrakes that operate using the rear brake calipers, if you have been using the brakes firmly before parking up, make sure you leave her in gear because many cars with this arrangement move off on there own, what happens is the pads and discs are warm/ hot but when they cool down the discs thrink and the pads loose there grip and away goes the car down any inclines,

No amount of shrinkage due to cooling down [Which would need a electronic micrometer to measure] should have any effect on the performance of a correctly functioning parking brake - unless it's not been put on correctly?
The pressure applied to a parking brake by the modern compound lever system is massive and designed to overcome the rolling effect of the vehicle weight at an incline of 40% with a safety margin of three.

 

[RichardHelen262]

A full automatic gearbox can be the death of the parking brake when people rely on its park facility to hold their cars and never use the parking brake - they then call me names when the parking brake does not work on MOT and I fail it.

I must admit i am guilty of this,but i must be lucky as the hand brake has always worked at mot time
Richard

 

[Polar Bear]

I must admit i am guilty of this,but i must be lucky as the hand brake has always worked at mot time
Richard

I had to change both rear disks on the wife's Range Rover this year due to lack of use on the parking brake = the parking brake works on an inner drum [that was so rusty it was un-serviceable]and the service brake works on the disk part - disks, brake pads and service brake shoes not cheap! You can always tell a Yorkshire lass but you can't tell them much

 

[RichardHelen262]

I had to change both rear disks on the wife's Range Rover this year due to lack of use on the parking brake = the parking brake works on an inner drum [that was so rusty it was un-serviceable]and the service brake works on the disk part - disks, brake pads and service brake shoes not cheap! You can always tell a Yorkshire lass but you can't tell them much

mines a vw t5 that uses the pads as parking brake, but i suppose i am still risking the cable seizing up

 

[portiapug]

I had to change both rear disks on the wife's Range Rover this year due to lack of use on the parking brake = the parking brake works on an inner drum [that was so rusty it was un-serviceable]and the service brake works on the disk part - disks, brake pads and service brake shoes not cheap! You can always tell a Yorkshire lass but you can't tell them much

Otherwise known as a 'Top Hat'.

These are quite fiddly to set up properly on a tag axle van on the AlKo chassis.

And prone to easing off after cooling down.

 

[flyinghigh]

No amount of shrinkage due to cooling down [Which would need a electronic micrometer to measure] should have any effect on the performance of a correctly functioning parking brake - unless it's not been put on correctly?
The pressure applied to a parking brake by the modern compound lever system is massive and designed to overcome the rolling effect of the vehicle weight at an incline of 40% with a safety margin of three.

That's why vosa had a recall on the Citroen xantia for an handbrake mod to stop cars moving off on there own after the discs cooled down,

Recall Details for CITROEN - Xantia

 

[K9d]

Good point. I assume thats because it's one of these automatic manuals, rather then a conventional auto. Is it possible to leave a vehicle in gear with one of these?

I have an Alfa Selespeed, manual box but no clutch pedal, it beeps at you when you turn the engine off if its in neutral, it wants to be left in gear.

 

[trevskoda]

i now your watching over me anyway,but did you know skoda were the first in the world to fit hydralic brakes as standard to all production cars and sort out the pedal arangement as is today?:wave:

 

[Polar Bear]

That's why vosa had a recall on the Citroen xantia for an handbrake mod to stop cars moving off on there own after the discs cooled down,

Recall Details for CITROEN - Xantia

That's what I said - quote Instances have occurred of Xantia vehicles moving away following an incomplete application of the parking brake by the driver. end of quote

 

[trevskoda]

back in the days when i had a company car i parked the nearly new mk5 cortina behind a landrover , went in the dealers office for a meeting , came back 3 hours later to find the cortina had moved forward a foot, bemper resting against the landrovers quarter bumpers with the spotlights between them. ivenever trusted handbrakes since


this morning i went out to pick up some rockery stone.... reversed the car and trailer up the sloping drive, applied the handbrake firmly, car and trailer stationary on slope pointing at the open gate and road. so selected first gear.
hour later with about a ton of stone in the trailer i hops, in foot on clutch to start car.... it starts to roll forward with handbrake still on. was well within the cars 2 ton towing limit so handbrake should have held the weight on its own.
all handbrakes are held on by a cable under tension , im convinced they stretch a bit under load and slowly release a tiny bit of tension over an hour or so. not normally enough to notice but just enough when youre on a bit of a slope with weight on.

so then the forth suspension bridge is out then,a cable sys is tested to hold and wont stretch in years,think a good service may be your anser.

 

[trevskoda]

Yes if you select a gear then switch of the engine then most will leave it in gear for you, normaly when
You go to restart the auto function will select neutral before allowing the starter motor to operate,

Also some information about handbrakes that operate using the rear brake calipers, if you have been using the brakes firmly before parking up, make sure you leave her in gear because many cars with this arrangement move off on there own, what happens is the pads and discs are warm/ hot but when they cool down the discs thrink and the pads loose there grip and away goes the car down any inclines,

its shoes inside a drum that are the h/brake the pads are hydro pard.the drumd contract and shrink giving a tighter hold when cooling .

 

[Longboard]

First car. Nearly last...

Dad bought me a Simca 1000 when I was 18 (when did you last see one of those?)
He has a very steep, short driveway up to his garage.
His Talbot Alpine (when did you last see one of those?) was parked at the top, my car was on the road outside up on axle stands with all 4 wheels off - and me underneath undersealing it.
I heard a ominous 'graunch', and rolled out just in time to see the Alpine knock the Simca clean off the axle stands, continuing across the road to demolish the garden wall opposite.
The Simca was a write-off, I nearly was.

 

[ricc]

its shoes inside a drum that are the h/brake the pads are hydro pard.the drumd contract and shrink giving a tighter hold when cooling .

so as the drum shrinks as it cools, for the vehicle to move the shoes have got to move away from the drum, as its only the tension in the brake cable that holds the pads against the drum, if the lever end of he cable doesnt move the only possible explanation i can see is the cable itself loosing tension by lengthening slightly allowing the pull off springs to move the shoes.

perhaps thats why hgvs use a different system.. springs hold the brakes on , the actuating mechanism releases them so any failure or freeplay results in brakes being applied.
the light vehicle system of spring release and the actuation applying the brakes is inherently more dangerous as a fault or wear releases the brakes

 

[portiapug]

so as the drum shrinks as it cools, for the vehicle to move the shoes have got to move away from the drum, as its only the tension in the brake cable that holds the pads against the drum, if the lever end of he cable doesnt move the only possible explanation i can see is the cable itself loosing tension by lengthening slightly allowing the pull off springs to move the shoes.

perhaps thats why hgvs use a different system.. springs hold the brakes on , the actuating mechanism releases them so any failure or freeplay results in brakes being applied.
the light vehicle system of spring release and the actuation applying the brakes is inherently more dangerous as a fault or wear releases the brakes

You have got that the wrong way round. The shoes are inside the 'Top Hat' and it will contract as it cools and therefore tighten.

The design problem is that they are much smaller compared to the old method of applying the rear brake shoes with the handbrake. The surface area is much smaller with the top hat system and modern designers seem to be a bunch of halfwits lately (look at all the recent recalls).

 

[GWAYGWAY]

Some rear disc squeeze the disc with separate pads and if the disc is hot it cools, shrinks, and the pads are only half on. I always use my hand brake and turn the wheels on a hill but do not leave it in gear,a habit from driving old diesels which might start if the stop cable is in, and it would drive away under tickover power.
I did say OLD diesels.

 

[RichardHelen262]

Some rear disc squeeze the disc with separate pads and if the disc is hot it cools, shrinks, and the pads are only half on. I always use my hand brake and turn the wheels on a hill but do not leave it in gear,a habit from driving old diesels which might start if the stop cable is in, and it would drive away under tickover power.
I did say OLD diesels.

I have two old tractors that still have the stop cables a 1960 db950 that has to be pulled to stop and the other a 1966 do 880 that works the other way,which is a much safer way and that has to be pulled out to allow it to be started, but I must admit that I hadn't given it a thought about not parking them in gear although I usually park them in reverse if facing down hill and first gear if facing up hill just the same as I would do with a manual car.
Richard