First break in

[nowhereman]

On occasion we park up at a relatives address on a street in Tyneside. Usually when we do this we sleep in the van outside the house. Last night we stayed in the house for a change.
This morning whilst in the front garden, the neighbour opposite shouted over that there was glass around the side of the van. I walked round to the side of the van to find a broken wine bottle smashed on the road under the vans side door. (The van is a lwb merc self build with sliding doors both sides. One side we use, the other side not usually used has a few odds and ends shoved in the foot well.) Someone had forced entry by prising a large screwdriver or some other tool under the door handle bending the metal down enough to get to the mechanism and open the door. Sort of lucky for us that they chose that door to try and gain entry. Amongst the items in the foot well were a few wine bottles leaning up against the door. As the door was slid open one of the bottles dropped out and smashed on the road. This must have been enough of a fright to make the twat slide the door back shut and do a runner.
I'm not quite sure of the mentality of the pond life that did this, and wonder if they will try again tonight or not. Either way there will be a bigger fright waiting for them if they do.

 

[Channa]

I am sorry to learn of your experience.

Years back I was burgaled when I lived in a house, and your emotion and sentiments are understandable.

But in this crackpot world we live in it is important you dont do anything daft!

I can assure you the courts take a dim view when you become vigilante rather than reasonably defending your property.

I hope you have no more trouble

Channa

 

[The Cumbrian]

Yes, got that t-shirt. Our holiday caravan was burgled, many years ago.
It upset my (then) wife so much we sold the van.
I've got a name for them, but it's un-printable.

 

[robjmckinney]

Classic theft

Sounds like you had the classic method of entering your vehicle, there are various kits on the market to reinforce the area around the lock for most common vans. You can make you own much cheaper depending on your DIY skills. It is a regular problem for white van man, they enter in seconds, rob what they can and off down the road. My brother has been done twice recently, costing him thousands in tools, life I'm afraid, just fit a kit!

 

[coventrycraig]

Got kwow time for these scum bags.

They have to be dealt with and realise that you wont tolerate it.

just dont get caught!

Craig

this minority make it upsetting for us good people.

 

[Yogihughes]

I know lots of people will come on here and say, "Be careful, it's not worth it etc etc etc.

BUT, if you can hit back and get away with it, DO ALL THAT YOU CAN TO THEM!!!!!!

 

[blondieandi]

Swines smack them with a walking stick if they try it again, this isnt a weapon but could be used as one!!

 

[skipperted]

Happened to me a couple of years ago , also in Tyneside , i also usually sleep outside , but chanced it and lost a huge amount , enough to sell that van and start with another. (which i am now in in a field in France) I now have a perimeter alarm at night with the odd lump of wood handy and always sleep in the van even when pressed by "will you be warm enought there is a spare bed you know" . last time in the area i woke to someone trying the sliding door , since then i have added a " keep away" button that starts the indicaters flashing (no sound) if i think someone is caseing the van . If i heard any major work being carried out to gain access the alarm can be triggered from inside. If any further help needed the lump of wood WILL be used.
However here in rural France ive been out on the bike all day and only seen three people.....great. Think i will keep out of the cities in future.

 

[Channa]

I know lots of people will come on here and say, "Be careful, it's not worth it etc etc etc.

BUT, if you can hit back and get away with it, DO ALL THAT YOU CAN TO THEM!!!!!!

Whilst I may share your sentiments more than you can imagine,I trust you are prepared to represent the OP in court if and when he retaliates.!

And has for getting away with it ? get away with what ? ...a possible charge ranging from assault to attempted murder ? two wrongs dont make a right.

I am disgusted by what has happened but kangaroo courts and vigilantes dont have a place in this country I would hope

To be frank your post doesnt help the OP one jot
Furthermore if the Op does retaliate, I very much doubt that you would leave the armchair and orchestrate any meaningful campaign on his behalf. More an emotive spectator.

Finally my post is reflective of the laws has they are, not necessarily as I would like them to be

Channa

 

[n8rbos]

Whilst I may share your sentiments more than you can imagine,I trust you are prepared to represent the OP in court if and when he retaliates.!

And has for getting away with it ? get away with what ? ...a possible charge ranging from assault to attempted murder ? two wrongs dont make a right.

I am disgusted by what has happened but kangaroo courts and vigilantes dont have a place in this country I would hope

To be frank your post doesnt help the OP one jot
Furthermore if the Op does retaliate, I very much doubt that you would leave the armchair and orchestrate any meaningful campaign on his behalf. More an emotive spectator.

Finally my post is reflective of the laws has they are, not necessarily as I would like them to be

Channa

if dirt-bag scum come near my camper and they are unfortunate enough to feel the wrath of my fists or iron-bar then so be it!!!!! if i go to court so be it!!!! a fine for damage to him so be it!!!!!!! but he will be waiting forever for the money at a £1 a week!!!!!! worth damaging my camper for????? if we had more vigilantes in this country it would be a better place to live!!!!and i have never expected anyone to stand by what i have done my actions are my own and i would encourage anyone who feels they could handle giving someone a beating to do so if it warrants it!!!! touching their property warrants this!!!!

 

[coventrycraig]

This debate is obviously stirring strong feelings and anger!

Craig

 

[nowhereman]

Dont think I disagree with any of the above comments. As far as i'm concerned all points raised are totally valid. The reality of the legal side of things put forward by channa is as we all know pretty much spot on. The law takes a dim view of anyone using force in these situations.
On the other hand I take a pretty dim view of the law in most instances, and only take heed of the few laws that boil down to common sense.
My sons bed is width ways across the van, therefor his head would have been next to the forced entry point if we had been in it at the time. Not sure I would be thinking to much about the law if it had happened whilst he was in the van.
Today I have calmed down a bit and am actually quite relieved that the last wine bottle from our France trip saved the day. It was also amusing to see what was in the van last night as personal protection, probably enough to get me surrounded by a swat team
Hey ho, tis done now could have been worse

 

[Channa]

if i go to court so be it!!!! a fine for damage to him so be it!!!!!!! but he will be waiting forever for the money at a £1 a week!

Rightly or wrongly after an exploration into your finances , the court decides what you will pay !!

Hypotheitcal but I bet it would be more than a quid a week.And I can assure you he might not be waiting forever.

Magistrates have sentenceing guidelines,not necessarily has they would desire I may add.

Whilst there is a desire to 'teach miscreants a lesson' the law isnt as accomodating. Taking it into your own hands has tempting has it is doesnt pay.

Channa

 

[n8rbos]

channa! as good as you feel your advice to be!!! take it from someone who not once twice but three times has meeted out punishment to scum that wish to violate my property, yes i've twice had to pay damages very minimal but damn worth it!!!! on both accounts it was accepted that i paid £5 a week on both occasions,no hardship to me but hurt them!!!!!!i could argue all year with you but won't. the point i'm making is this! it's all well and good if you can take a deep breath and say oh dear what have these poor unfortunate people done to my beloved property, never mind i don't feel violated and their need was obviously more than mine and the law says xyz, so i've got to live with it!!!!so be it!!!! me, if the above happens i worked hard for what i've got and they have the same opportunity so should do so and keep their thieving hands off ours.

 

[Channa]

channa! as good as you feel your advice to be!!! take it from someone who not once twice but three times has meeted out punishment to scum that wish to violate my property, yes i've twice had to pay damages very minimal but damn worth it!!!! on both accounts it was accepted that i paid £5 a week on both occasions,no hardship to me but hurt them!!!!!!i could argue all year with you but won't. the point i'm making is this! it's all well and good if you can take a deep breath and say oh dear what have these poor unfortunate people done to my beloved property, never mind i don't feel violated and their need was obviously more than mine and the law says xyz, so i've got to live with it!!!!so be it!!!! me, if the above happens i worked hard for what i've got and they have the same opportunity so should do so and keep their thieving hands off ours.

The point I was trying to make to New Rovers post and your own is that emotive as it is 'sort em out' In the grander scale, and the way the law works you can end up in deep bother.

To clarify, not for a moment am I suggesting thieves are poor unfortunate people, and victims dont feel violated. Nor am I suggesting sentences are adequate or appropriate on a lot of occasions.

Whilst it is easy to encourage others in vigilante activity, it is that person who ends up doing time or being fined etc.

From your post it seems you are personally comfortable with accepting the circumstances of your own actions. I dont have a problem with that.

Channa

 

[Yogihughes]

Hi Channa, I accept your point that the "sort them out" attitude is NOT the lawful way of doing things, but as you say the subject is very emotive.

I also accept that I was wrong to encourage nowhereman to retaliate against anyone who wishes to commit criminal damage to himself or his property.

Having been a victim recently of one of my vehicles being broken into, I suppose I was still "angry" at the incident.

BUT, like n8rbos, I too will take action against anyone trying to steal/damage any of my property.
I am also willing to take the risk of being caught and dealt with by the courts.
I know it isn't acting within the law but I am so disgusted with the current state of affairs in this country and how "scumbags", who, when caught are given a slap on the wrist and told not to do it again.
Unfortunately, over the last few weeks, several vehicles have been vandalised in my area and even though there have been extra police patrols, vehicles are still being "broken into".
Any person that I manage to catch damaging my property in future will suffer an accidental "fall" before being handed over to the police.
That is a promise!

 

[Channa]

Hi Channa, I accept your point that the "sort them out" attitude is NOT the lawful way of doing things, but as you say the subject is very emotive.

I also accept that I was wrong to encourage nowhereman to retaliate against anyone who wishes to commit criminal damage to himself or his property.

Having been a victim recently of one of my vehicles being broken into, I suppose I was still "angry" at the incident.

BUT, like n8rbos, I too will take action against anyone trying to steal/damage any of my property.
I am also willing to take the risk of being caught and dealt with by the courts.
I know it isn't acting within the law but I am so disgusted with the current state of affairs in this country and how "scumbags", who, when caught are given a slap on the wrist and told not to do it again.
Unfortunately, over the last few weeks, several vehicles have been vandalised in my area and even though there have been extra police patrols, vehicles are still being "broken into".
Any person that I manage to catch damaging my property in future will suffer an accidental "fall" before being handed over to the police.
That is a promise!

FWIW I think most people have a limit whereby their tolerance threshold is crossed and are happy to take things into their own hands.

I am also of the opinion many people are disillusioned with our legal system and feel that current sentencing guidelines are not a deterrent to those whom offend.

Has you state should you catch someone damaging your property of course you have the right to use 'reasonable' force in protecting your property and your person. It is what is classed as 'reasonable' which seems a grey area.

However finding the perpetrator a couple of hours later and giving them a thump would not be seen in the same light.

All of it I find quite interesting, The grander problem has a society though it seems is that if we are selective has to what laws we choose to believe apply to us or dont, we would all come up with a different list. then in effect we have a lawless society. Hence the reason IMHO we need to try and abide by the current laws flaws and all.

By all means apply pressure to MP's etc and lobby for change where we feel there is inadequacies either in law or punishment for various crimes.

I feel the current trend of speed cameras everywhere for example are not about safety but revenue and we are doing a great job of alienating society from the police etc. ( I am not advocating speeding btw ).

What we need is more police on the beat, more patrol cars and more preventative policing targeting known offenders etc

I trust you can see my point and consideration is more in the grander scale.

Channa

 

[lenny]

Gutter Rats

Sorry to read of your plight Ian, cos your just around the corner to me, hope you manage to get it fixed and hopefully it was just a one off.

We need more police on the beat at night rounding up these Gutter Rats that roam the streets tooled up to thieve from innocent victims

 

[derekfaeberwick]

Unfortunately these scumbags laugh at the pitiful token punishments handed out on the very odd occassion that they are caught. Instant retribution is all that makes them hesitate. Perhaps the time has come to take justice back for the protection of the (almost) silent majority.

 

[sasquatch]

The scroats do it because they know they can get away with it. They have no respect or fear of the law,because the law is toothless,thanks to misuse of Human Rights act and PC brigade!