Electricity free auxilliary heating ideas?

[FULL TIMER]

Spigot......depending on model and from memory anything from around 1/2 litre per hour on maximum down to 15ml per hour on it's lowest setting, however if you have electric available and just want a background heat to keep the damp and condensation at bay I would just use a tubular heater very low wattage either 60 or 120 depending how big your van is and does the job, I actually have three 120 watt ones fitted in mine along with a 400w (frost protector) that I got from screwfix up untill now this has been my main heating in the van even with the weather we've been having. I do also have an eberspacher fitted and only have to use it for a few minutes at a time when it is extra cold outside.

 

[FULL TIMER]

just found this 2kw Dickinson Newport solid fuel heater not cheap but certainly seems safe enough if it's passed to use on our waterways

 

[Tbear]

The problem you would have using the Ghillie kettle would be that with the flue attached you would not be able to tip the kettle to empty it and once boiled dry it would soon burn through the metal. They are a great bit of kit though!

Hi Robmac

Should be easy to rig a slow feed in and an outflow pipe but I am not sure what a long flue would do to the draft. Might turn it into a bit of a blow torch. Huge amount of heat output and fuel demand. If I can find a bit of suitable pipe for a flue, I will try it with mine

Richard

 

[Deleted member 3011]

Two dangers that have been mentioned but that need to be shouted loudly.
Oxygen depletion because the fire needs it to burn the fuel.
CO - Carbon Monoxide - poisoning because of incomplete combustion (guaranteed with any sort of solid fuel or oil heater) and leaking flues). CO is said to be a cumulative poison in small concentrations, is odourless and colourless and deadly at quite small levels. Even if they find you before you are stone dead, the CO is very very hard to shift from the haemoglobin so giving pure oxygen doesn't do very much.

Perhaps a CO detector or two and a smoke detector or two would be essential.

Meat smoker and pot-bellied stove

He had a huge hunting dog as well. Must have been cosy inside.

 

[scampa]

Just to add to Tonys' warnings about carbon monoxide...

Another "hidden" danger is that if your body absorbs a small amount of it, you may become partially paralysed before you have a chance to react. For example, you may be aware that you are being poisoned by it, but could be unable to move to fresh air, unable to open a window, or unable to call out for help before it is too late.

It's much safer to fit a carbon monoxide alarm, and it isn't too expensive or difficult.

 

[whitevanwoman]

Hi Robmac

Should be easy to rig a slow feed in and an outflow pipe but I am not sure what a long flue would do to the draft. Might turn it into a bit of a blow torch. Huge amount of heat output and fuel demand. If I can find a bit of suitable pipe for a flue, I will try it with mine

Richard

I see what you mean about the draft being too much, those things can fair roar when they get going.

But (I was going to write "So" but someone doesn't like sentences which start with "So", can't remember who, but there's a whole thread on it) what about covering the bottom (firepit) part of the storm kettle set up with some sort of thin grill (like you get on disposal barbeques_ so that there is a slight gap between the kettle part and the base part, so breaking the vacuum effect slightly - the same concept as having the door open on a wood burner - it doesn't burn as well as it does when the door is shut.

With regard to connecting the flue to the chimney and not being able to empty / fill water, my idea was that the end of the flue would have a sliding collar which would drop down over the top of the storm kettle chimney, and which could be pushed back up the flue so that the kettle part could be slid out off the firepit to empty and fill. Of course, this would mean that the open firepit part of the kettle would be completely open and may smoke out into the van but...

1. there may still be enough draw in the flue to draw the smoke from the open firepit up the flue
2. its easy enough to regulate the burn of the storm kettle as it needs feeding regularly so once it reaches boil point, it dies down very quickly if not refuelled immediately so its just a case of getting used to it and judging how much fuel to give it once it starts getting close to boiling point
3. a flat metal plate could be placed over the firepit when the kettle is removed and within a few minutes it would probably go out. If refilling the kettle with water, the metal plate would just be put on for the duration of the refill process, but it could be used to keep a kettle of water hot whilst extinguishing the fire.


I might be talking gibberish here as I dropped physics age 13 as I was rubbish at it, and have no clue with regards to the how and why things work (still struggling with understanding 12v elecs), but I'm really keen to follow this idea up partly because it would solve my problem perfectly, and also because if it works and the manufacturers like the idea (and why shouldn't they? It's a whole new market for them!) I might get royalties if I slap a patent on the idea or claim intellectual copyright pretty sharpish! (Of course, I know I've just shot myself in the foot for posting the idea here :scared: )

Keep me posted on your efforts TBear.

Tony Lee - definitely agree regarding both smoke and CO alarms, I have both and I know they both work cos they were tested not long ago when I was experimenting with my Tranjia stove inside the van - mistake! But I've had my camping gas stove on as a heater for up to an hour on the odd occasion without the CO alarm going off, but I do have an open vent in the roof. Some advice re location would be good though as I'm not sure where in the van it should be - I wondered about putting it at floor level as CO is heavy and I wouldn't want the dog to get gassed before the alarm went off. At the moment it's about waist height when standing in the van, but that's well above head height when I'm asleep. Suggestions?

 

[Robmac]

You know this really could work, it would be worth investing in a very large thermos flask as well to save all that hot water for morning. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[whitevanwoman]

Hi WVW!

Personally, I'd have a go myself, but for "legal" reasons, will not recommend it here!

We'll start off with the negatives, just to get them out of the way and also to let folk know what they might be letting themselves in for. ( Terrible grammar, but ye know what I mean, I hope).

Dangers of a hot combustion stove in the abode:

a) fire risk
b) burn risk
c) gas fume risk
d) smoke damage and dust risk.

Ha ha Sean, whenever I cook there's a serious fire and burn risk! Many will testify to that.

Gas fumes are covered by carbon monoxide alarm, the inside of my van is gradually getting a layer of nicotine (I know that's not nice but it's true and it might persuade me to give up one day), and with a big hairy dog which likes wallowing in peat bogs all year round, I'm really not bothered by a bit of dust. My only heating at home is with a wood burner so am more than used to sawdust, ashes, kindling drying nearby etc.

My coal merchant has a multifuel stove in his caravan office in his yard and he has a 6" twinwall flue only a couple of inches off the side wall but he has a metal plate on the wall behind the flue to shield the wall. He seemed a bit surprised at my inspection of his set up when I went to pay my bill the other week. I must remember to have a look at his chimney up top next time

 

[whitevanwoman]

You know this really could work, it would be worth investing in a very large thermos flask as well to save all that hot water for morning. Good luck and keep us posted.

Already have, my friend - a 2 litre pump flask from Lidl for £12, one of the best bits of kit I've bought, filled with boiling water on leaving home or anywhere with an elec kettle, and kept topped up every time I've got spare hot water. If filled and left untouched, it's still hot enough for coffee 12 hours later, and warm enough for washing 24 hrs later.

 

[Robmac]

Incidentally, this looks very reasonably priced for a woodburner (probably a reason for it being cheap though).

Portable Tent Camping Steel Wood Stove Hunting Fishing Camping Heater Cooking: Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

EDIT;But then I noticed the £75 delivery charge!

 

[Robmac]

Another thing you could consider is to place the firebowl on a couple of blue bricks, this would heat up the bricks whilst the fire was burning and they would slowly release heat for a long time after the fire is out. This is how storage heaters work, I have used this method on boats in the past.

 

[Tbear]

Incidentally, this looks very reasonably priced for a woodburner (probably a reason for it being cheap though).

Portable Tent Camping Steel Wood Stove Hunting Fishing Camping Heater Cooking: Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

EDIT;But then I noticed the £75 delivery charge!

Hi Robmac,

£75!!!

Check out Amazon.co.uk Help: Super Saver Delivery

Something a bit odd there and if you do have to pay that much then the original Frontier Stove looks better even if the total price is a little bit higher.

Richard

 

[Tbear]

Already have, my friend - a 2 litre pump flask from Lidl for £12, one of the best bits of kit I've bought, filled with boiling water on leaving home or anywhere with an elec kettle, and kept topped up every time I've got spare hot water. If filled and left untouched, it's still hot enough for coffee 12 hours later, and warm enough for washing 24 hrs later.

Hi Whitevanwoman

And (and I don't care what you start your sentence with) it will keep ice/iced water for 3 - 5 days in the summer.

Richard

 

[Robmac]

Hi Robmac,

£75!!!

Check out Amazon.co.uk Help: Super Saver Delivery

Something a bit odd there and if you do have to pay that much then the original Frontier Stove looks better even if the total price is a little bit higher.

Richard

I think you're right Richard, I've always liked the Frontier stove. Somebody on the Song Of the Paddle forum got one new for £85 after asking for discount.

 

[kevinp]

Hi there thought I would reply to this and say that we considered a lot of different stoves for our van including the fronter stove but in the end went for a bantam 3kw stove from the champion stove company Champion Stove Company Products Page Martin supplied the stove within one week with the flues, capping and the silicon sleeve at a very good price. We bought two one for our van and the other for a log cabin and they have both proved to be very efficient plus they can be shut right down at any time to extinguish the fire.
I will post some pictures of both of ours later
Kev

 

[kevinp]

Here is the stove we use in the van, at the weekend we used one of those compressed wood logs and with the fire turned right down the log burned for nine hours giving out enough heat to keep us very comfortable.

 

[Joeson1]

Thanks for all the input guys. I think I will consider going down the solid fuel route instead of drip oil - wood is free too, and I don't think I'd mind topping it up frequently. I actually acquired a very small wood stove at the beginning of the project but abandoned it as I was worried due to space restrictions it would end up being too close to walls and cupboards... I'll have to re-explore this anyway.

Regarding the solar panels, I have 100W at the moment, and another 80W to add on over Christmas hols... I think even in this time of year they do seem to top up the batteries to a small degree. But unfortunately not enough to cope with more than a few hours of 'Spach time a day (plus other domestic useage)... I have 250 Ah of battery capacity and with no charging at all I can go for 3 days without mincing my batteries).

As for the idea of a wind turbine, I have been looking into that myself, it seems a great idea. The only issue for me is that I would only really be able to use it at weekends as I'm stealth camping a lot during the week in semi-residential areas.

I'm stuck with my 'Spach for the moment, which is no great hardship. They truly are amazing little machines, use hardly any fuel at all and if not for my need to stretch out the time between battery charges, it's be perfect.

Anyhow, thanks very much for your ideas!

 

[Deleted member 3011]

I wondered about putting it at floor level as CO is heavy and I wouldn't want the dog to get gassed before the alarm went off. At the moment it's about waist height when standing in the van, but that's well above head height when I'm asleep. Suggestions?

NO, NO, NO!!!!!! CO2 is heavy and tends to pool at the bottom if the air is very still(which it rarely is, but CO is so little different in density to air that it acts the same - ie rises from the source of heat to the top part of the room and then rapidly mixes with the rest of the air as it cools and sinks due to convection currents.

Often suggested to put it either a foot or so down the wall as long as it isn't in a dead area, or about half way down so you are protected when sitting and also get advance warning when you are sleeping.

Some say you don't need them if you are sensible with sources of heat, keep heaters in good repair, don't go to sleep with the oven on blah blah blah but the reality is we do sometime nod off with the kettle boiling or the oven on - and in the USA not long ago, two or three died in an RV because exhaust fumes from a generator in an adjacent RV got into their RV. Yes, they were apparently more than a little under the weather when they staggered back to their RV but that isn't relevant.

 

[whitevanwoman]

Thanks Tony Lee, I'll leave the CO alarm where it is then, about 4 foot above the floor on the side ply lining. It was reassuring to know it worked when I set it off by mistake playing with my Tranjia stove. It also went off last winter when the van was parked up outside my house in the snow, and there was about a foot of snow on the roof which I presume blocked the air vent, a useful lesson learned to make sure that the vent is always clear on the outside! Although I couldn't understand what was generating CO in an empty van.

Since then I've added much more insulation, curtains and draught excluders so the "natural" ventilation will have been much reduced, so something to think about in snow. Although my cooking stove is directly underneath the vent so the heat from the stove should keep the vent clear of snow and ice during the day at least.

I also know of someone (friend of a friend of a friend) whose dog nearly died in the back of the car up in very cold snowy conditions in Aviemore (minus 15C) when they left the engine running - they forgot they'd left the engine running whilst they were inside the accom so it was running for a couple of hours and the dog nearly didn't survive (don't ask me how or why they forgot, it's just a story I heard).