Electric vehicles

[Drover]

Anyone know if this is correct ?
though I guess it's in the USA

 

[Okta]

I couldn’t find the US figures for Ford v Tesla but I did find the % figures for EV cars that catch fire compared to ICE ones.
“They found that there is a 0.0012 % chance of a passenger electric vehicle battery catching fire. In contrast, the chance of an internal combustion engine vehicle setting on fire is 0.1%.”

 

[trevskoda]

If you dont keep the HP payments up they set a charge of in the batteries.

 

[mark61]

Who knows what's correct, chances are you are gonna hear a load of guff from both the pro EV's and anti EV's.

 

[Tonybvi]

Fact - statistically there are far more ICE cars per 1000 than EV cars per 1000 that catch fire, but an EV fire is very difficult to extinguish and is generally more catastrophic.

 

[colinm]

Anyone know if this is correct ?
though I guess it's in the USA
View attachment 138036

Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.
For the Pinto, in 38 rear end collisions which resulted in a fire, 27 people died, these deaths have been directly attributed to the design flaw which trapped people in the car. There have been more deaths than that due to fore in the Pinto.
There are no actual numbers I know of that give the numbers of people killed by a fire in a Tesla, i.e. did they die due to the fire, or due to the accident.

 

[Boris7]

Just nay sayers spreading their gospel.

 

[Fazerloz]

A stupid comparison
A little Pinto history.
The Ford Pinto scandal was a major controversy in the auto industry that involved the company's decision not to fix a dangerous fuel tank design in its cars:

Design flaw
The Pinto's fuel tank was located too close to the rear axle housing and sheet metal, making it prone to rupture in rear-end collisions at speeds of 20 miles per hour or higher. This could cause a fire or explosion.

Internal documents
Ford's internal documents showed that the company knew about the problem but chose not to fix it. They calculated that it would be cheaper to pay out possible injury claims.

Response
In 1978, Ford recalled all 1.5 million of its 1971–76 Pintos for fuel system modification. Ford also became the first American corporation to be criminally prosecuted for reckless homicide.

Safety reputation
The Pinto's safety issues have been cited as a case study in business ethics and tort reform.

Other factors
The EPA was changing its safety crash rating rules at the time, and the test was so new that most companies didn't do anything with the information.

 

[trevskoda]

Another good reason not to buy ford, still making cr-p cars to this day.

 

[Okta]

Another good reason not to buy ford, still making cr-p cars to this day.

Their wet belts are not proving too reliable.

 

[trevskoda]

Their wet belts are not proving too reliable.

The only thing they ever made which was good was the transit banana engine, folk ranted on about the old x flow engines, 1600cc made 70 bhp, my old soda 1300cc made 68bhp and went round the clock 3 times, lucky if i got 40th on a cross flow before exploading big time,total junk.

 

[Drover]

All the replies above have made my queries about battery power even more confused.

 

[colinm]

All the replies above have made my queries about battery power even more confused.

#8 above tells you want you want to know, but to give you a bit more data, when Ford crash tested the Pinto to see if it met the newer standards coming out in 1973, it found that every test above 25mph resulted in a fire, add in that it often also resulted in the doors jamming shut, and you can see it was seriously flawed.
Tesla's (like other modern cars) pass much more stringent tests without bursting into flames and still being able to open the doors.

 

[Nabsim]

All the replies above have made my queries about battery power even more confused.

Is this any use to your original question?

Tesla Fire: Digital record of Tesla fire incidents

Tesla Fire records information about Tesla car fires and other Tesla fire incidents that received news coverage.

www.tesla-fire.com

 

[Martin P]

If Teslas do blow up at least that would be something exciting about them

 

[GeoffL]

I couldn’t find the US figures for Ford v Tesla but I did find the % figures for EV cars that catch fire compared to ICE ones.
“They found that there is a 0.0012 % chance of a passenger electric vehicle battery catching fire. In contrast, the chance of an internal combustion engine vehicle setting on fire is 0.1%.”

That suffers from a statistical error know as "right censoring". Basically, the chance of a vehicle fire (any vehicle) increases with vehicle age with the overwhelming majority of fires in ICEVs occurring in vehicles over ten years old and a majority are over 15 years old. I just checked Autotrader to find only 48 EVs over ten years old compared to over 80,000 ICEVs. When it comes to the fifteen year point, 31,000 ICEVs are listed compared to just 1 EV. Simply put, the majority of EVs just aren't old enough to be statistically at risk -- yet!

An EV battery fire is also far worse than an ICEV fire. The battery fire is much, much harder to extinguish and liable to reignite hours, days and sometimes many weeks after the initial fire. Further, Li-ion batteries suffer from 'dendrites', which are internal filaments that grow inside each cell as the battery is charged and eventually cause internal short circuits. If the cell is at a low state of charge when this occurs, the cell just goes 'dead'. However, if it happens at a high state of charge, the resulting short circuit can cause the cell to overheat and might even cause thermal runaway. Note that this is a characteristic of the battery technology and only applies to Li-ion and not to any technology that might replace it -- although currently almost all EVs use Li-ion.

For me, more disturbing is the tendency for modern cars to auto-lock after driving a short distance and for the internal door handles to be mechanically disconnected from the physical locks. This, with electric windows, means that passengers are trapped in the event of power loss -- and it's something in older cars also. I was horrified to discover that the rear door handles on my 2009 Qashqai were ineffective without 12v -- a fault in the entertainment system completely discharged the battery and the only door I could open was the driver's. I now have a glass breaker in the glove box! This doesn't only affect EVs, but it seems to be a major reason why people could not escape and so have been killed in EV fires.

 

[NeilyG]

Think the difference is EVs spontaneously combust, is it not?
I’ve now heard car parks have started banning EVs cos of this - & cos they are so much heavier.

 

[Drover]

Is this any use to your original question?

Tesla Fire: Digital record of Tesla fire incidents

Tesla Fire records information about Tesla car fires and other Tesla fire incidents that received news coverage.

www.tesla-fire.com

Wow. Thanks for link.
I don't have a tesla but our daughter has one and I take the mick about it all the time..
I guess I should stop.
I do quiet like the vw buzz though I am a little concerned over batteries .

 

[Drover]

Our 2013 fiat re locks itself if we leave the keys in the ignition and will only open from the inside . Daughters ford tranny locks itself if you use the wizz bang door to many times and can't be opened from the outside .
Both with battery keys.. do we need these anti theft systems on vehicles.
It ok for them to say you can break the rear window with the stem on the removable headrest to get out.( as they are designed to do that) Loads of others lock in different ways but a thief will nick it anyway.
Best I stop worrying and head for some sun.

 

[Boris7]

Wow. Thanks for link.
I don't have a tesla but our daughter has one and I take the mick about it all the time..
I guess I should stop.
I do quiet like the vw buzz though I am a little concerned over batteries .

It’s a usage issue, if you drive long distances everyday and have no home charger then an EV may be a bad choice. Public charging infrastructure is still lagging behind demand and can be very expensive.

If like me you don’t do regular long drives and have solar, house battery and a charger then an EV is a great option. I charged last night 24% to 80% and had to do so from mains power which is unusual. Cost £3.01 that’s about 210miles.

If I did the same at a BP charger on a motorway it would have cost about £38, still cheaper than petrol but not so attractive, and if you go to public charging points on a Sunday morning you’ll be queuing for fast chargers a the best price.