Delica - the next challenge - help please me re weight issues

[delicagirl]

Close but no bananas, you need to do this loaded up.
Each axle will have a designed limit (which we don't at moment know) and each tyre will have a limit to the load it can carry, this we do know. Somehow or other you should be able to track down the axle limits, if not a best guess will have to suffice, but that's really the last resort.
As an example, my van is plated at 3.5t, the front axle has a limit of 2.1t, the rear axle has a limit of 2.4t,

so although the plate says you cannot carry more than 3.5tonne (you, van and 'stuff' combined weight) - your 2 axles will safely carry 2.1+2.4 = 4.5 tons - have I understood this ?

 

[wildebus]

Thank you - this is also a sensible suggestion - and the larger tyres would give me some extra payload. I'll go talk to the tyre man again tomorrow - then begin to fill up the van again and go to a different weighbridge - i really cant go back to the same weighbridge for the third time in a week can i ??? They didn't charge me today and would think i am taking the mick if i turn up again !!

When you do start to bring your gear back into the van, it might be an idea to make sure the heavy stuff is low down and put the lighter kit in the higher cupboard
Would help keep the CoG (Centre of Gravity) as low as possible, as I recall you were concerned about being a little top-heavy; and if you are carrying books, they add up to a lot of weight and it is easy to just automatically put them on high shelves.
If you tell the weightbridge people what you are doing and why, they may well be intrigued and would want to keep weighing the vehicle to see how it goes (I think I would be if someone came to me with this task )

The earlier suggestion of M&S Commercial Van Tyres sounds very sensible, giving probably as much off-road capability as you would realistically want in the Delica with the extra strength of a van tyre construction.

 

[colinm]

Thank you Colin - Just so i am sure what is needed - do i go to a different weighbridge, and then put my front wheels ONLY on the weighplate, get a reading from that, then put the back two wheels only on the weighbridge and get that reading - preferably when the van is utterly empty of "stuff" ? ?

Maybe you might explain why it is important to know why each axle needs to be weighed separately please ? thank you

Close but no bananas, you need to do this loaded up.
Each axle will have a designed limit (which we don't at moment know) and each tyre will have a limit to the load it can carry, this we do know. The load on your axles is very unlikely to be same front and back, one or other (probably back) will be higher, you need to know it's not so high it is overloading the tyre/axle. Somehow or other you should be able to track down the axle limits, if not a best guess will have to suffice, but that's really the last resort.
As an example, my van is plated at 3.5t, the front axle has a limit of 2.1t, the rear axle has a limit of 2.4t,

 

[mark61]

so although the plate says you cannot carry more than 3.5tonne (you, van and 'stuff' combined weight) - your 2 axles will safely carry 2.1+2.4 = 4.5 tons - have I understood this ?

No, the 3.5 tonne is the max weight. The combined axle weights always equal more then the GVW, just to give some leeway with loading.

 

[wildebus]

No, the 3.5 tonne is the max weight. The combined axle weights always equal more then the GVW, just to give some leeway with loading.

With a key thing being that your tyres should be a minimum of 1/2 the maximum axle weight. So in the example above, even thought it is a 3.5t van, you would need tyres rated at 1.2t at a minimum soas to match the potential loading.

 

[colinm]

so although the plate says you cannot carry more than 3.5tonne (you, van and 'stuff' combined weight) - your 2 axles will safely carry 2.1+2.4 = 4.5 tons - have I understood this ?

Might have been better if I had used another van as example.
Fiat build my van as 4t, but many like mine are sold plated as 3.5t.
So I can safely carry 2.1t on front axle, or 2.4t on rear axle as long as total doesn't exceed 4t, but legaly I can only carry 3.5t.
All vans AFAIK, the total of both axle loads is greater than the plated weight, this allows you to be at max load but be slightly unbalanced front to back.

 

[delicagirl]

i have tracked down the email address of Mitsubishi Head office in Japan, so i have just contacted them, with all the info we have and a photo, to ask its weight. I also have a direct phone number so can call them if i don't get a response. Fingers crossed.

 

[ricc]

easiest way to explain axle weights is to take a 3,5 tonne flatbed truck...

gross wight, gvw, mam is 3.5 tonne
(gross train weight... vehicle and trailer say 5 tonnes)


unladen weight of truck , kerb weight , 2 tonnes

max load is then 1.5 tonnes


with an empty 2 tonne truck there could easily be more weight on front axle than on the back say 1.5 on front axle and .5 on rear

then stick a 1.5 tonne concrete block on the extreem rear of the load bed. all the added weight is on the rear axle, now 1.5 on front and 2 on rear
move the concrete block to the front ofthe loadbed...assume weight is split between both axles front now has 1.5 pluss .75 ...2.25 rear has -5 plus .75 .... 1.25


though its only a 3.5 tonne truck each axle could have to carry more than half the weight. 2.25 on the front in this theoretical example .

in practice the engineers will overengineer the axles , probably each will take over 3 tonne easily , limiting factor will be the tyres... both from design load when new and degradation over time.

 

[vwalan]

[No message]

 

[Tbear]

Couldn't agree more. The start point remains - what is the legal weight limit for the vehicle?

And there is a legal weight limit for some very good reasons. You are putting your life and others at risk by going well over it. I am sure that many of us have gone over weight at times, travelling with full tanks now and again must put me over a little but constantly going well over is a serious accident weighting to happen. I know I am sounding like a broken record on this one but its not just a day in court or the cost of a new tyre you need to worry about.

Richard

 

[vwalan]

lots of imports dont have train weights , american pickups are renown for it .
fifth wheel owners can easily get caught out with it .
mind even uk built vehicles dont always show train weights . i had a 13ton dodge that never had one from new .
its not just uk though that dont fill every thing in on log books . germany ,holland and france i used to import vw,s from and they all have discrepancies .
mind uk is much stricter mot than the others . lots vehicles pass abroad that wouldnt pass in uk.
but it was interesting the upped weight on your plates .
i prefer down plating , its the way forward for over 70,s and have big payloads in their fivers .

 

[wildebus]

I think there are variances which are due to the time the vehicles are registered?
I just had a look at 4 V5Cs I have for 4 different vehicles and they all show different types of info regarding weight...

1) The oldest is a VW T4 from Year 2000, which started life as a commercial panel van, but ended up as a MOTOR CARAVAN, with taxation class of PLG (as it was a panel van originally)
The VIN plate has weight info, but the V5C has NO weight info whatsoever; and also does no show a M1/N1 type definition (think that came in in 2001?).
Annoyingly, I don't have a copy of the old V5C before I sent it away for reclassification as a Camper to compare.

2) I have a V5C from my old RAV4 from 2004. This is an ESTATE, and taxation class is PETROL CAR. This has an M1 Vehicle Category.
This has no MPM (Max permissible weight), but DOES have a Mass in Service. It had no towing masses indicated (but towbars are made and used with these vehicles)
Something else that appears on this V5C is emissions info

3) Got a V5C from my VW Shuttle from 2008. This is classed as an MPV, Taxation Class DIESEL CAR. This has an M1 Category
Wth this vehicle, I see a MPM quoted as well as a Mass In Service. I also see towing mass data appearing on the V5C. This V5C also has a Revenue Weight recorded.
Something else that appeared is Sound Level Data as well as Emissions Info.

4) Finally a V5C from my DS5 from 2013. This is classed as a 5 Door Hatchback, Taxation Class DIESEL CAR. This has an M1 Category
This V5C contains all the same info as the 2008 Shuttle, including MPM, Mass in Service, towing mass data, emissions and sound levels, but has no Revenue Weight.


So it very much seems to me that what info is included in a V5C is heavily dependant on the age of the vehicle and when it was registered. As time as gone on, more and more information has been recorded on new registrations, and the registration document enlarged to allow for that info, but when the standard V5C is reissued on older vehicles for whatever reason (change of owner/address/reg number/etc), those extra fields are blank not because they are not relevant, but because the information was not originally recorded as the time of first registration.

How that compares to other European Countries I don't know, but I would imagine there are plenty of little nuances in each Country that are not followed by other ones, but it is of course the UK ones that are important.


So .... for a 1992/1993 MPV, it is likely there are LOADS of fields that are not populated on the V5C, purely because in 1992/1993 they just were not required by the DVLA, and the V5C is a catch all form for EVERY Registered Vehicle in the UK from oldest to newest.

 

[delicagirl]

And there is a legal weight limit for some very good reasons. You are putting your life and others at risk by going well over it. I am sure that many of us have gone over weight at times, travelling with full tanks now and again must put me over a little but constantly going well over is a serious accident weighting to happen. I know I am sounding like a broken record on this one but its not just a day in court or the cost of a new tyre you need to worry about.

Richard

I do know that now Richard which is why i am putting so much effort into finding out. As i have said all through this thread, this search is all about safety - mine and others. I am, indeed quite shocked, that inadvertently i have been over loading my van - i know ignorance is no excuse, but with the many obstacles we have all encountered on this thread to find my "van weight" its no wonder i didn't know. Driving back from the garage and to the weigh bridge yesterday knowing i was on such old tyres was really quite scary.

Lets hope Mitsuibish respond quickly to my email.

 

[vwalan]

hi, yes i understand hymer upped it really .its a shame hymer didnt seem to put an up plate on the vehicle . they are as lax as dvla.
this where confusion sets in .
life just isnt easy.
my log book quotes the revenue weight ...no other weights .
but its original ministry plating certificate shows axle ,gvw and train weights . plus tyre size and load rating . and single on front double on rear.
as it is its now plating and testing exempt . i still keep the paperwork but now its a tractor body type .2axle+artic wheelplan.

 

[Tbear]

I do know that now Richard which is why i am putting so much effort into finding out. As i have said all through this thread, this search is all about safety - mine and others. I am, indeed quite shocked, that inadvertently i have been over loading my van - i know ignorance is no excuse, but with the many obstacles we have all encountered on this thread to find my "van weight" its no wonder i didn't know. Driving back from the garage and to the weigh bridge yesterday knowing i was on such old tyres was really quite scary.

Lets hope Mitsuibish respond quickly to my email.

My comments where not aimed at you as you are clearly doing the best you can to sort it out and make as many people aware of the problem as posible. More the bit more pressure in the tyres and you will be fine attitude of some.

Richard

 

[Byronic]

You said on another thread that old Merc. vans are slow. The pic. attach. View attachment 46500gives a clue as to why Mercedes vans of yesteryear are slow. The VIN PLATE is actually an aluminium plate, not a piece of kitchen foil.
And Teutonic efficiency depicts what should be shown on a VIN PLATE.

 

[delicagirl]

i also contacted SVTech this morning and spoke to a guy who knew all about the problems of japanes grey imports - i have sent him a photo of the van and all the info we have found up to now.... so again i am waiting to hear back from him also.

 

[delicagirl]

Mitsuibishi UK have replied to my other email:-

" The Mitsubishi Delica isn’t a genuine UL specification vehicle, therefore, I am unable to provide you with the information that you require.

I can however confirm that all vehicles have plates fitted which confirm the vehicles kerb weight, gross vehicle weight and the maximum towing weight. Again as model isn’t a UK specification I cannot confirm where specifically these plates will be located."

Lets hope Mitsubishi in Japan will provide something when they wake up ...... they are 9 hours ahead

 

[Nesting Zombie]

Hi ya,
Well at least you are making 'Some' headway..
So my question is, (& one I touched on earlier in the thread) . With all this doubt on available information.
What 'Vehicle Details' have your insurance company infact Coverd ?.
Have you 'Actually' been insured all this time & make sure you're infact insured NOW ?.
If yes,,,Then phone them & ask for the Weight Parameters, Class of vehicle & listed 'Usage' (eg Motorcaravan etc) & if you have Breakdown with your insurance as is often the case, is your vehicle within the maximum recoverable weight allowed.
By doing this you 'May' get some more information, or at the very least get it in writing that your insurance & Breakdown covers you & your vehicle regardless of the minimum information they hold.
I may not have put that very well in this post, but hope you can kinda get my point lol.

 

[delicagirl]

Hi ya,
Well at least you are making 'Some' headway..
So my question is, (& one I touched on earlier in the thread) . With all this doubt on available information.
What 'Vehicle Details' have your insurance company infact Coverd ?.
Have you 'Actually' been insured all this time & make sure you're infact insured NOW ?.
If yes,,,Then phone them & ask for the Weight Parameters, Class of vehicle & listed 'Usage' (eg Motorcaravan etc) & if you have Breakdown with your insurance as is often the case, is your vehicle within the maximum recoverable weight allowed.
By doing this you 'May' get some more information, or at the very least get it in writing that your insurance & Breakdown covers you & your vehicle regardless of the minimum information they hold.
I may not have put that very well in this post, but hope you can kinda get my point lol.

Thanks - my van certainly is recoverable as i was trailered home recently from Lancashire to Somerset with a suspected Broken Clutch (turned out to be a slave cylinder). My vehicle is insured and Recovered via AIB who were fantastic. But i take your point about checking what details they have on their computer.