"daft question" thread!

[Smaug]

I leave mine on all the time and keep the fridge on gas even when traveling.

It will be fine unless there is a really bad accident (then there is an increased risk of fire or explosion) but in case of a bad accident the van will be a write off anyway.

Make sure you check your gas system regularly for leaks if you do this.

It becomes pretty obvious with the smell & the fact that you are always running out of gas anyway!

 

[scampa]

I'm not being sarcastic here, but can I ask......... Who would you class as being "qualified to judge"?

And could the reason why we don't hear of too many fires in petrol stations being caused by motorhome 'fridges, be because most motorhomers wouldn't enter a forecourt with their gas 'fridge lit?

Anyone who goes onto a petrol forecourt with a naked flame of any kind is gambling with their life, and the lives of anyone else in the area. It's as simple as that!

 

[maingate]

I remember in the early 1980's going into Service Stations for fuel in South Africa. You did not need to leave your car, the attendant filled up for you. Many times the (white) South Africans were puffing away on cigarettes while being filled. I never saw or heard of a fire or explosion caused by this, even though petrol vapours would have been present in that heat.

 

[scampa]

The spark from the ignition will cause an explosion, much less likely a constant pilot light will.

Sorry, but the flame from a pilot light will cause an ignition/explosion just as readily as a spark.

Gas bottles are designed to fail safe, yes you may get a burn off from the gas escaping but the bottle shouldn't explode. The exception is acetylene and when one of those cylinders goes off you need a large exclusion zone, if I recall correctly an acetylene cylinder can fly just under 200 metres, even so they seldome explode in a fire.

True, they do have pressure-relief devices fitted that are quite reliable, but it isn't unknown for one to be faulty. Also, if the cylinder is being pressurised ( by external heat ) faster than the safety device can release it, it will eventually explode.

I've witnessed quite a few exploding LPG cylinders, including the "flying variety" ( and a few acetylene cyls too). One of the earlier LPG cylinder explosions that I came across was on a make-shift heater in the front room of a house. The resulting blast destroyed most of the interior of the three-bed semi, with flames leaping from every window and literally across the street, It also ignited the detached garage and a car in the driveway.

Don't get paranoid, but DO treat LPG cylinders with respect!

 

[Deleted member 8180]

Ok silly question thread it is then. When the weather is said to be overcast and heavy, why doesn't the sky fall on our heads :raofl::raofl::raofl:


Ok, I know shut the door on my way out. :wave:

Pedant mode on/ The average cumulus cloud weighs 100 000 tons. Chicken Licken had it right. /pedant mode off

 

[Deleted member 8180]

You can stub your fag out in Diesel.

Just saying.

Not Vin Diesel though

 

[scampa]

I remember in the early 1980's going into Service Stations for fuel in South Africa. You did not need to leave your car, the attendant filled up for you. Many times the (white) South Africans were puffing away on cigarettes while being filled. I never saw or heard of a fire or explosion caused by this, even though petrol vapours would have been present in that heat.

As you probably know Maingate, this will most likely be due to the "flammable range" of petrol vapour (in this case), which is very roughly between about 1% and 8% mix with air, if I remember correctly.

If the concentration of petrol vapour to air is lower than 1%, or is greater than 8% (as it probably was, near to the nozzle), it will not ignite. The trouble is, when this "over-rich" vapour mixture begins to disperse over the ground area, it will get more diluted with the surrounding air, until at some point it will be WITHIN it's flammable limits. If there is an ignition source in that area, it will then readily ignite, and continue burning until all of the fuel vapour is consumed (possibly along with anything else within the vapour cloud).

 

[scampa]

The trouble with acetylene cylinders is that, unlike LPG cyls, they can continue to self-heat (building up internal pressure) long after you have removed them from a fire or heat source.

In the old days, they would be submersed in a make-shift dam of water for 24 hours, then checked at intervals. The more modern method is to leave them in place, but direct a water jet onto them for 12-24 hours, carrying out regular checks with thermal imaging gear (which is quite a fun way to spend a night!).

 

[El Veterano]

I take, some of your point, as a fully trained scuba diver/ cox, with over 20 years of experience to show for it. And although we do (these days, although this was not always the case) have bottles secured in an upright position on the RIB they should always, and without exception be laid on their side at any other time for the reason that you correctly state. But the point in this thread is not high pressure air but low pressure combustible liquid.

 

[Tbear]

I remember being trained in the use of a Number One Burner (large petrol fuelled stove) and how when filling it, the vapours can run like a stream away from it. There was a film of the devastating results of what happens when the stream reaches a source of ignition and the speed that the flame/blast travels back up the stream to where the filling was taking place. Five gallons of petrol going up in flames is quite a site.

I turn my engine and gas off when I refuel. I admit that you are more at risk from idiots lobbing fag ends out of their cars as they pass but it makes me feel better.

Richard

 

[dave and mary]

I was the first on this thread to say I never turn my gas of when traveling, but I must say I would NEVER travel with the fridge on gas, so many people on this thread have said they do. Some very interesting things have been said about, gas bottles, fire, explosions ect, some of it way over my head, but to my way of thinking, a flame and gas are 2 things that should be respected, and to have them on together while traveling I think is very silly and not necessary as you can put it on 12 volt, and then to add the extra risk by going into a garage with it makes me shudder at what could happen. :drive: :drive:

P.S of to Brandon in a few hours with fridge on 12v so if you see us in a filling station its safe to come in lol

 

[snowbirds]

Read this very carefully

Hi to all my pyro friends,

I have taken notes,:scared:AND YOU ARE ALL ON " ZEE LIST":drive::danger::goodnight:lane:


Snowbirds with zee tin hat on.:wave:

 

[maingate]

As you probably know Maingate, this will most likely be due to the "flammable range" of petrol vapour (in this case), which is very roughly between about 1% and 8% mix with air, if I remember correctly.

If the concentration of petrol vapour to air is lower than 1%, or is greater than 8% (as it probably was, near to the nozzle), it will not ignite. The trouble is, when this "over-rich" vapour mixture begins to disperse over the ground area, it will get more diluted with the surrounding air, until at some point it will be WITHIN it's flammable limits. If there is an ignition source in that area, it will then readily ignite, and continue burning until all of the fuel vapour is consumed (possibly along with anything else within the vapour cloud).

I am not familiar with the %'s for petrol but you are correct in principle. I was taught that the optimum mix of Methane to Air was between 5.5 to 9.25%. This gave the biggest potential explosion. However, below and above these figures there is still the risk of explosion, just not so violent and probably more CO generated due to incomplete combustion.

I and a workmate had just come out of a huge vessel on an Oil Refinery (Sasol 2, S. Africa). There were 2 welders working inside (with all the necessary Permit to Work rules being obeyed). We heard a bang and saw a flash through the manway hole. A terrified welder came out and ran straight past us. We had to enter (after pressing the gas alarm button) to help the other welder out. The skin was hanging off his face as his electrode had been the source of ignition. Gas was present but in a weak mixture. This gave off a 'pop' more than a 'bang' but generated more heat due to the weak mix. If it had been a proper mix, it would have took his head off. :scared:

 

[snowbirds]

Fridge on GAS

Hi maingate,


Did they have a Fridge in there running on gas.:banana::banana::cool1::cool1:


Snowbirds.

I am not familiar with the %'s for petrol but you are correct in principle. I was taught that the optimum mix of Methane to Air was between 5.5 to 9.25%. This gave the biggest potential explosion. However, below and above these figures there is still the risk of explosion, just not so violent and probably more CO generated due to incomplete combustion.

I and a workmate had just come out of a huge vessel on an Oil Refinery (Sasol 2, S. Africa). There were 2 welders working inside (with all the necessary Permit to Work rules being obeyed). We heard a bang and saw a flash through the manway hole. A terrified welder came out and ran straight past us. We had to enter (after pressing the gas alarm button) to help the other welder out. The skin was hanging off his face as his electrode had been the source of ignition. Gas was present but in a weak mixture. This gave off a 'pop' more than a 'bang' but generated more heat due to the weak mix. If it had been a proper mix, it would have took his head off. :scared:

 

[maingate]

No David.

A Permit to Work was issued for the welding. A different Permit was issued for a different job outside of the vessel (fitting a new Gate valve on a pipe line I believe). The fans used to pump fresh air through the vessel (it quickly gets hot and uncomfortable in those temperatures) had the effect of drawing residual gas in the line into the vessel. As we were working on the top level of the vessel and the gas came in through the dome of the reactor vessel, it only affected our area.

It could be argued that it was negligence by the Production people but that would be a bit of a stretch as the 2 work sites were a long way between each other, one was in a large vessel and the other was on an external pipe line. It also has to be remembered that this huge new Oil from Coal refinery was the first of its type in the World. There had been smaller plants (it is the method Nazi Germany used in WW2) but nothing on this scale. The project cost £15 Billion in 1980, that was for 2 refineries and a large Coal Mine.

 

[Deleted member 12539]

As to, turning off the gas or not....
I have been heating water for 3 days whilst the van has been sat in my garden!!!! Doh!

Our m/h fridge can be set to automatic change over, from 12v, when travelling, to gas when stopped and uses 240v when on ehu... as long as one remembers to switch off the fridge when we park up at home after a trip.

 

[snowbirds]

Going to risk france

 

[maingate]

As to, turning off the gas or not....
I have been heating water for 3 days whilst the van has been sat in my garden!!!! Doh!

Our m/h fridge can be set to automatic change over, from 12v, when travelling, to gas when stopped and uses 240v when on ehu... as long as one remembers to switch off the fridge when we park up at home after a trip.

It's at times like this I regret that there is no 'smug' emoticon. This will have to do. :rabbit:

 

[maingate]

Babcox did have equipment on the refinery, gas heaters were theirs. I know that because I was Commissioning the Synthol area and had to have all the gas burners set up properly on a couple of them.

They will have got a stake in the Project by virtue of having a South African based arm of the Company. By the same token Dorman Long provided a lot of steelwork because they had a large presence in SA (under the name of Dorbyl). I was offered a very attractive job with them by a senior Executive that we met while on holiday in Durban. His right hand man was also a Geordie, so we northerners are not all thickos.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

Well said, Jim

Thanks for the Smiley, Win