Criminal Justice & Public Order Act 1994 Sec77

Its a funny old world we live in. I would like to meet some of you full timers as I am sooooo very close to becoming one, its just persuading the wife! Its amazing how people might assume because you swan around in a van and dont work your a freeloader or a bit of a gypo but if you swan around the med in a yacht or a motor cruiser (lets say both cost around £50K and I have now owned one of each) then your probably a rock star or Duncan Banatyne and everyone wants to know you. Personally I cant wait to be in the Alps when its too hot to be in the Med and in the Med when its cooled down and everyone has gone home and I wont care a jot what anyone thinks about me!
 
Your post echos my spirit and thoughts more than you will ever know.

It is amazing who you meet on your travels too.

Session musicians, and one chap who I found wandering about the mountains.

Turned out he was writing a software programme that tracked ones movements so you could pinpoint things of interest and then work out how far you had walked.

A retired decorator, who was a cycling fanatic. He had followed the tour of Italy and was preparing himself for the tour de France. He would cycle the stages and time himself 50 miles a day :eek:

Late 50's and a bike that didnt look much anti theft tactic it turned out...but always had a wry smile when he beat the young ones on the latest must have steed.

Perhaps it is our propensity to support so called underdogs but a true experience

Channa
 
There always is going to be a fine-line between wild-camping (Not camping on organised sites) and traveling free-loaders.

My very first wild-camping experience was in the north of Scotland at a lovely little beach. We parked-up and enjoyed the peace, eat a little food, had a couple of drinks and soaked-up the scenery. Then, to relaxed to move and seeing no-reason to move I just continued to relax until it was morning.

The lady staring at us, hands on hips, glaring but staying her distance, said nothing.

We walked a little down a lane around the headland and couldn't believe the sight we saw in such a lovely spot. A very old converted commercial vehicle was parked-up and looked as if it hadn't been moved for months, in-fact, quite possibly, it was unable to move. Inside were 5 dogs but no people, outside the van were boxes of rubbish various other containers, the remnants of camp-fires, litter trapped amongst the gorse and heather, tin-cans, bottles and an unhealthy smell.

We were wild-campers judging wild-campers and though there was huge difference in our reasons for being there and the way in which we conducted ourselves its probable that the public and authorities view us similarly.

Wild-camping and living in a van full-time are different, even so, the latter can be conducted in an acceptable manner. Wild-camping is discouraged or banned in most EU countries other than, "Staying overnight, for one night to restore driving ability" even then there are regional variations and in some countries you are not allowed to even sleep on private land by agreement.

The above information is part of 2 pages titled, "Sleeping in the motorhome away from camping areas" from the Burstner handbook.

My view is that, "staying overnight to restore driving ability" is as much as is needed to allow flexibility. If someone knocked at my door and asked to stay-overnight because they couldn't find a suitable place and were tired I would probably even feed them, certainly fix them with water grey and black dumping even hook-up but if someone parked-up and stayed without asking and making a reasonable excuse I'd ask them to leave and call the police if they didn't.

Richard.
 
If the OP was restoring one of the oldest buildings in the town then couldn't he have been allowed to park his van in one of the local council car parks.
I mean the one where the council parked their wagons overnight.
 
New Rover said:
If the OP was restoring one of the oldest buildings in the town then couldn't he have been allowed to park his van in one of the local council car parks.
I mean the one where the council parked their wagons overnight.
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Or even on or near the work site he/she could claim it was their site office/workshop.
My own vehicle is a brand new AutoTrail and when I bring it out of storage to my house inorder to ready it for a trip,I am always met with the comments "how long is it going t o be there?" It is a nice vehicle to look at not a converted commercial box van or similar.
Yet in th old days I had more fun in one like that.
 
sasquatch said:
Or even on or near the work site he/she could claim it was their site office/workshop.
My own vehicle is a brand new AutoTrail and when I bring it out of storage to my house inorder to ready it for a trip,I am always met with the comments "how long is it going t o be there?" It is a nice vehicle to look at not a converted commercial box van or similar.
Yet in th old days I had more fun in one like that.
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Thanks all for an intresting debate,

I'm making there windows but it is for a firm based in Hove with no off st p but do pay arking :(

The reason I had no cash was i put it all in Eric's tank to get me to Brighton!

The debate about travelers and full time wildcampers has got to be about how you conduct yourself... I do full time wildcamp but also work from my van when i put my actionscript coder head on. No I don't pay poll tax! but do pay road tax, income tax, ni and vat... As a single male i put next to no draw on a local authoity, waste & rubbish being the main elemrnts i can think of! But the waste bines would have to be emptied weather or not i put in a bag and the same goes for toilets.
I tend to eat in pubs and local restrants (who all pay CT) and spend in the local shops, weighing it all up I make no hit on a councle's budget.

Mark
 
Sorry my laptop threw a wobbly

>> I'm making there windows but it is for a firm based in Hove with no off st p but do pay arking <<

Should have been I'm making there windows but it is for a firm based in Hove with no off st parking :(
 
New Rover said:
If the OP was restoring one of the oldest buildings in the town then couldn't he have been allowed to park his van in one of the local council car parks.
I mean the one where the council parked their wagons overnight.
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Unfortunatly it's not directly for the council, but a local firm who had been advertising for tradesmen for over 6 months and were almost about to give up the contract because of the lack of qualified staff. I also got a second sheet from the Traveller Liaision team (gota love that title) but have had no response! Probably coz of the bank holls! But I won't hold my breath...

An intresting and little known fact is that in Medievel times all stained glass artists were itinerate and moved from job to job (it helps to increase the overall skill level), as did a lot of craftsmen at that time, hense the term "jounyman". So what was good enough for York Minster, Durham Cathedral (both glazed by french craftsmen) and representing some of the finest art of the period, isn't good enough for Brighton and Hove DC.

There's nothing "new age" about what i'm doing... It's as old as my craft!

M
 
I thought that it was journeyman because it was "jour", french for day and got corrupted!
 
mlp666 said:
Unfortunatly it's not directly for the council, but a local firm who had been advertising for tradesmen for over 6 months and were almost about to give up the contract because of the lack of qualified staff. I also got a second sheet from the Traveller Liaision team (gota love that title) but have had no response! Probably coz of the bank holls! But I won't hold my breath...

An intresting and little known fact is that in Medievel times all stained glass artists were itinerate and moved from job to job (it helps to increase the overall skill level), as did a lot of craftsmen at that time, hense the term "jounyman". So what was good enough for York Minster, Durham Cathedral (both glazed by french craftsmen) and representing some of the finest art of the period, isn't good enough for Brighton and Hove DC.

There's nothing "new age" about what i'm doing... It's as old as my craft!

M
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mark, do what you do, enjoy it, but move around a bit (even 1/2 mile)theres too many busy bodies about nowadays!unless you cause a nuisance or draw attention to yourself i can't see any reason why a ticket put on you van would stand in any other part of where you am!:cool:
 
I find your interest in glass work interesting. A few years ago I required a bit of floated leaded glass in a cabinet after a break in. The chap who assisted me just happened to be in Doncaster and is a master craftsmen in ecclesiastical glass. (indeed helped restore the rose window at York after the fire )But a rare breed of craftsman

My surname is Chance, which in glass works may mean something to you (albeit I am on the poor side of the dynasty) But my distant relatives amongst there commercial successes glazed the houses of Parliament including Big Ben ( st stephens tower I believe to be correct ) Crystal Palace for the 1851 exhibition and pretty much had the lighthouse market sown up.

It seems having done a bit of research there is a collectors market for my families wares not that I will benefit ( teach me to be born on a saturday)

I am an artist too, and I truly hope that my comments re your original post are taken in the spirit I intended.

Good luck

Channa
 
It would be really nice if the people who insist on calling the Romanii people "gypos" desisted. It is a term that is not welcomed. I have 2 friends who have been full time travellers for many years, one of whom is self employed and has wild camped since '86. For a period of time this person was horse drawn although not being Rom himself. There are many different kinds of people "living on the verge" just as there are in sedentary society and i would suggest that very many of these people have a deep respect and love for the land in which they travel. Because Thatcher/Major repealed the Caravan Sites Act whereby local authorities are no longer required to provide sites and because most of the traditional stopping places have been fenced, barricaded,stolen and otherwise blocked where exactly are these travelling people supposed to stop? If members on here are really serious about wild camping i would humbly suggest that they get to know the history of the nomadic way of life in these islands-it may well surprise you. The so called new age traveller movement in the '80,s was very idealistic in finding a new-old way to live and reclaim some of the rights that have been sytematically eroded over time. There may well come a day where it is totally illegal to park up and sleep overnight anywhere at all except an authorised site and whether we like it or no, this puts us in the same camp as the genuine Rom and also the largely unnoticed now, new travellers. The 80,s saw the influx of the "brew crew" into the new traveller movement which all but destroyed its high ideals. Not all travellers and not all Rom are dirty, thieving outlaws just as not all sedentary peoples are. Bad eggs and all that.......Yes, some on here have seen awful park ups with rubbish around and being someone who drives 65K a year as a job i see some pretty unsavoury estates, gardens, industrial watelands etc. Please dont label all these people prejudicially just because youve seen some bad examples. Many of the low key travellers have to suffer the vigilanteism of the scumbags from the nearest town who think its a laugh to brick a windscreen or petrol bomb a van-and this is more likely to happen in rural areas too. Sorry this is a long post but i mean no disresect to any on here its just that assumptions are too readily made about people who wish to live the way perhaps many on here would wish to live. Nice site this by the way:) For full timers on here it may be worth checking out the "Friends,Families and Travellers" website ( cant find web address at mo)-theres a link on there to the Travellers Law Society which is focused on all travelling legal matters.
 
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Don't think the term is meant to be welcomed. Daresay there are some good ones but as sure as a cat's a hairy beast there's a heck of a lot of bad uns.:mad:
 
derekfaeberwick said:
Don't think the term is meant to be welcomed. Daresay there are some good ones but as sure as a cat's a hairy beast there's a heck of a lot of bad uns.:mad:
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Your dead right. Sorry if I am not very PC but "these people" come here every year on the way too and from Appleby Horse fair and they cause so much trouble it’s unbelievable. They pour S..t in the rivers, leave rubbish all over and just feel they can turf up and stay on greens right outside peoples houses. I have a friend who is also a Romany Gypsy, granted he lives in a house in Appleby. He actually told me that he and many others leave town when the fair is on!

I am sure there are some Gypsies that are not like that but people’s ideas of a charming little man in a traditional caravan towed by a horse is not the reality. I speak as I find im afraid.
 
Itinerants v gypsies ...I think is the issue

I am a full timer in a motorhome I own no bricks and mortar ...So I guess closer to the romany lifestyle than 'gorga'

Itinerant or Gypsy ...or something else ? If my lifestyle needs a label !!

So what am I ? I have shown nothing less than respect whilst I have been here.?

So what am I ?

Channa
 
Going by your surname, I would say "yer a Chancer"!

No offence jist a wee joke.

By the way my brother started his working life in CHANCE Brothers Glass Factory in Glasgow in 1951.
On e of your family's factories, by any chance. (No pun intended).
 
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New Rover said:
Going by your surname, I would say "yer a Chancer"!

No offence jist a wee joke.

By the way my brother started his working life in CHANCE Brothers Glass Factory in Glasgow in 1951.
On e of your family's factories, by any chance. (No pun intended).
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No offence taken. Yes the Glasgow factory was part of the dynasty.

The main factory was at Smethwick in Birmingham

I cant recall what was produced in Glasgow there, the product portfolio over the years ranged from glassware, spectacle glass. and lighthouse reflectors and mechanisms ...

Channa
 
channa said:
The main factory was at Smethwick in Birmingham

Channa
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:eek:... been in there :eek:... years and years ago mind...about 1976-7 ish :rolleyes:


so... which chance are you then:confused:.... i remember portraits on the wall in reception.... were you the middle 1 :confused: :eek:

probably not:rolleyes:... more likely the last chance:p

regards;)
aj
 
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