Covenants against parking motorhome on drives.

[Val54]

The courts will always look at the context that any Act or Regulation was drafted for. In the case of the Caravan Sites Act and Regs, the legislation primarily was to regulate the control of caravan sites for health and safety reasons. Given the ruling that #Merl quotes, I would suggest that the courts might consider that if a covenant was intended to prohibit the parking of motohomes and caravans, it should have stipulated both terms. If you think about it, such a covenant would prevent someone who uses their camper as their sole means of transport from parking at their house.

 

[GeoffL]

I respectfully disagree Geoff, I've read through the case and Oak tree motorhomes never cited a previous judgment falling in their favour while presenting their case so I think it's safe to assume that there hadn't been any. There was a clear summing up by the judges (3 of them in total) including all of the various acts covering caravans (including the act you cite), dictionary definitions and also the general day to day acceptance of what people expect a caravan to be.

We must agree to disagree. Personally, I hope you are correct. However, neither you nor I are the judge: the judicial authority hearing a case is and (AFAICT) no case has been found in favour of a motorhome owner while there is at least one case where a home owner was required to remove a motorhome from the home owner's curtilage (albeit, I don't think it actually went to court).

The courts will always look at the context that any Act or Regulation was drafted for.

This is the crux of the matter. In the case that @merl cites, the context was taxation. In this case, the context is the outward appearance of a residential area, which is a far cry from that and much closer to the caravan sites planning regs.

If you think about it, such a covenant would prevent someone who uses their camper as their sole means of transport from parking at their house.

FWIW, a friend lives in an estate where parking commercial vehicles on driveways is banned by covenant. So they have to park their small panel van on the street even though it's their sole means of transport. Developers who create such covenants probably don't give a fig for anything other than appearances, particularly when they're still selling properties on the affected estate.

 

[GeoffL]

For completeness, here is the definition of a "caravan" from the planning regs:

unless the context otherwise requires—​

• “caravan” means any structure designed or adapted for human habitation which is capable of being moved from one place to another (whether by being towed, or by being transported on a motor vehicle or trailer) and any motor vehicle so designed or adapted, but does not include—
  • any railway rolling stock which is for the time being on rails forming part of a railway system, or
  • any tent;

 

[molly 2]

My last house had parking covernent I kept my motorhome on the drive for over ten years no problem , but If problem accured I new i would not have a leg to stand on and would have to move it ,

 

[GMJ]

We are currently on the market selling our property and when we have done viewings on properties that we may want to buy, I always ask the question about covenants (most vendors don't know) but a quick shufti at properties around the area usually shows whether there are caravans/MH's parked up on driveways. It doesn't answer the question fully but I figure if others do it then it would be darned unlucky to get pulled. We would obviously check the documentation anyway to ensure that parking up was OK.

 

[trevskoda]

Strange as it seems, you buy a car or van you can fit spotlights spoilers big ex pipe etc cause its yours, buy a house and you are told what you can or cannot do with it.
Knowing aall this now i would stipulate all covenants be removed when buying new or later or you can stick the house where the sun dont shine.
Same as i dont agree with g rents etc as many only last 999 years.

 

[Okta]

Many covenants are vital e.g. they stop your neighbour from blocking off your drainage. Most covenants run with the land and the seller can not remove them. My current and previous 2 homes had parking covenants, I knew this when I bought them and can have no complaints. It is like so much in life, you have to read the restrictions and if you don’t like them don’t buy.

 

[marchie]

Strange as it seems, you buy a car or van you can fit spotlights spoilers big ex pipe etc cause its yours, buy a house and you are told what you can or cannot do with it.
Knowing aall this now i would stipulate all covenants be removed when buying new or later or you can stick the house where the sun dont shine.
Same as i dont agree with g rents etc as many only last 999 years.

For most housing estate dwellings, 99 year leases were the norm, Trev, and there was no guarantee of lease renewal, much less any certainty of a reasonable Ground Rent. But the iniquity of that system has begun to change, and the law is being changed, but slowly

Steve

 

[wildebus]

Strange as it seems, you buy a car or van you can fit spotlights spoilers big ex pipe etc cause its yours, buy a house and you are told what you can or cannot do with it.
Knowing aall this now i would stipulate all covenants be removed when buying new or later or you can stick the house where the sun dont shine.

You reckon the person selling the house would even be in a position to do that? In the immortal words of the bard ... "Jog on".

Same as i dont agree with g rents etc as many only last 999 years.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

You reckon the person selling the house would even be in a position to do that? In the immortal words of the bard ... "Jog on".

Unless the house builders are also the land owners at the time of selling - but I suggest that this would normally only apply with new builds?

My sister and I bought the freeholds for my mother's bungalow and aunt's flat after they died. Both properties were built in the 70's, quite close to each other, and both built by the same building company.

Took ages and was a proper pain in the ass for the solicitor tracking down the owners of the land leasehold, which was nowt to do with the builders. Was a real labyrinth. Had to trace down - or up? - through several businesses and countries. Came as no surprise that the buck eventually stopped at some obscure offshore company in the Cayman Islands.

Took yonks to get it sorted and I was, frankly, amazed that we even achieved it. Bungalow took 18 months and the flat just over 3 years. Flats are more complicated because you have to buy the freehold by consensus with the other flat owners. Fortunately there was only one other flat owner involved and she was happy to get it done.

The land was not, and had never been, owned by the original property builders.

It's all about the land. And the money. Always follow the money. And the landowners. And the private equity investors...

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Unless the house builders are also the land owners at the time of selling - but I suggest that this would normally only apply with new builds?

My sister and I bought the freeholds for my mother's bungalow and aunt's flat after they died. Both properties were built in the 70's, quite close to each other, and both built by the same building company.

Took ages and was a proper pain in the ass for the solicitor tracking down the owners of the land leasehold, which was nowt to do with the builders. Was a real labyrinth. Had to trace down - or up? - through several businesses and countries. Came as no surprise that the buck eventually stopped at some obscure offshore company in the Cayman Islands.

Took yonks to get it sorted and I was, frankly, amazed that we even achieved it. Bungalow took 18 months and the flat just over 3 years. Flats are more complicated because you have to buy the freehold by consensus with the other flat owners. Fortunately there was only one other flat owner involved and she was happy to get it done.

The land was not, and had never been, owned by the original property builders.

It's all about the land. And the money. Always follow the money. And the landowners. And the private equity investors...

Was it expensive or even worth it Marie?

 

[wildebus]

Unless the house builders are also the land owners at the time of selling - but I suggest that this would normally only apply with new builds?

My sister and I bought the freeholds for my mother's bungalow and aunt's flat after they died. Both properties were built in the 70's, quite close to each other, and both built by the same building company.

Took ages and was a proper pain in the ass for the solicitor tracking down the owners of the land leasehold, which was nowt to do with the builders. Was a real labyrinth. Had to trace down - or up? - through several businesses and countries. Came as no surprise that the buck eventually stopped at some obscure offshore company in the Cayman Islands.

Took yonks to get it sorted and I was, frankly, amazed that we even achieved it. Bungalow took 18 months and the flat just over 3 years. Flats are more complicated because you have to buy the freehold by consensus with the other flat owners. Fortunately there was only one other flat owner involved and she was happy to get it done.

The land was not, and had never been, owned by the original property builders.

It's all about the land. And the money. Always follow the money. And the landowners. And the private equity investors...

Your post reminds me about selling my first flat (long before the rights to buy freeholds came into law) ... I bought one of the basement flats in a converted victrorian 4 storey semi - so 8 flats in total.
I sold my flat pretty quickly and easily (and for a nice profit to boot (went up from £26k to £38k in just over a year)) but the freeholder disappeared about the time I sold and the next people who tried to sell their flat had a nightmare experience not sure what happened in the end with them but I was very fortunate to sell when I did I think

 

[trevskoda]

For most housing estate dwellings, 99 year leases were the norm, Trev, and there was no guarantee of lease renewal, much less any certainty of a reasonable Ground Rent. But the iniquity of that system has begun to change, and the law is being changed, but slowly

Steve

Our land was stollen by norman invaders so not there to draw g rent.

 

[molly 2]

Company's are buying up leases and won't sell them but continue raise rent every year , the law has been changing for years is a long way off being passed ,

 

[molly 2]

Was it expensive or even worth it Marie?

Many buyers run for the hills when they realise the property is leasehold, many 99 year leases are coming to an end

 

[wildebus]

Our land was stollen by norman invaders so not there to draw g rent.

I like stollen. prefer it to English Christmas Cake.

 

[trevskoda]

I like stollen. prefer it to English Christmas Cake.

I could not spell nicked.

 

[maingate]

I don't know how old the housing estate is (I'm assuming a number of houses were built around the same time). If the houses have been built for some time, first of all find out what any covenants will be. Second, go and have a look at the other houses and see if any have broken the covenants. If they have and a nosy neighbour gives you a problem with your van, inform him about the other infringements and that you will be duty bound to inform everyone that (because of your nosy neighbour) everyone affected will be put under the council scrutiny. Your nosy neighbour (the root of the problem) will be in hot water with the neighbours and peer pressure should make him keep his/her trap shut. I know someone who did exactly that and it worked. I never had any problems here with my van but if it had kicked off, all but one house in my street would have had to make expensive retro work to get back to spec.

 

[trevskoda]

I don't know how old the housing estate is (I'm assuming a number of houses were built around the same time). If the houses have been built for some time, first of all find out what any covenants will be. Second, go and have a look at the other houses and see if any have broken the covenants. If they have and a nosy neighbour gives you a problem with your van, inform him about the other infringements and that you will be duty bound to inform everyone that (because of your nosy neighbour) everyone affected will be put under the council scrutiny. Your nosy neighbour (the root of the problem) will be in hot water with the neighbours and peer pressure should make him keep his/her trap shut. I know someone who did exactly that and it worked. I never had any problems here with my van but if it had kicked off, all but one house in my street would have had to make expensive retro work to get back to spec.

Over here things are sorted by other methods for mouth peaces.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

Was it expensive or even worth it Marie?

Not especially, it was quite cheap actually (relatively speaking), although the flat freehold cost 3 times as much as the bungalow, so financially it was worth it, or at least affordable at the time, but we also did it for peace of mind. The long term aim was always just to make the properties easier to sell.

Personally I don’t like leaseholds.

Some freeholds, down in London for example, can cost an arm and a leg to acquire - that’s if the owners even agree to sell in the first place - and if you can track the bughas down!