Consumer Rights act 2015 Reject a motorhome as not fit for purpose?

[REC]

Having purchased our new motorhome in feb2018, we still cannot use it properly. Getting so fed up about it, particularly as just seen our old self build, and this has highlighted what a problem the new one is!
Problems still not resolved are
1.Unable to use the shower as no curtain
2. Unidentified rattle under floor only relieved by having a heavy weight on it
3. Maybe connected to (2) the waste water bubbles into the shower tray if waste tank is more than half full. Retailer suggests a plug to stop this but says probably the design!!
4.Cushions all squashed and uncomfortable after a week sleeping on them
5. Door handle on bathroom missing
6. Waiting now for a replacement radio as this is faulty which affects the odometer and steering wheel controls for Bluetooth ( don't understand exactly but they did a software fix which didn't work!) Odometer flashes constantly.

All these faults have been notified to the garage in February and March and we have been waiting for them to "get parts" consequently we cannot use the van for the purpose purchased. So fed up and disappointed we are now thinking that we will reject it as not fit for purpose since they have not managed to fix anything yet! Does anyone out there have more knowledge about whether we would have a case? There is a six month time limit I think,
Are we being unreasonable? Planned to drive to Portugal fairly soon but don't want to with all the issues!
Opinions would be appreciated.

 

[harrow]

Well it's not right, but you have to be seen as being reasonable.

If you can then get rid of it.

:wave:

 

[delicagirl]

2-3 months is far too long to be "reasonable" in my view. I think you need to put all this in writing to the company and ist all the defects and the date from which you have been trying to get these resolved. Give them a time frame deadline - say 2 weeks - to complete all repairs otherwise you will refuse to accept it back as "unfit for purpose" and will ask for a full refund, prior to taking Court Action if this does not happen. But you need to be willing to take them to court and it is costly and it does take months to get through the system....... good luck

 

[yorkslass]

Just had a quick read of the Which consumer article, and the law seems to be different in relation to vehicles. Probably best to get a quick consultation with a solicitor. Good luck whatever route you take. I'm at the Hereford meet at the moment and have heard of two members with new vans who have fridges that don't work.

 

[REC]

Thanks! I was reading the which guide too....they can deduct for use but that's ok as our main use has been driving to the dealer and fiat specialist to try and get resolution! Paid for a big chunk on credit card then cleared card immediately but think we have redress through them too. Plan on putting it all in writing tomorrow but, having seen our previous vehicle have realised how bad this has been! Don't think our son will give it back but would prefer it!
Don't plan on starting it unless following through...but wondered if our idea of "reasonable" coincides with others!

 

[Channa]

I don't think you have a leg to stand on annoyances rather than you cant use the van...the positive side is you have a tri party agreement that makes the credit company liable


Local trading standards will assist you, and whislt you have a grievance they will advise re rejecting parts lead times etc being sufficient grounds

Channa

 

[colinm]

Paid for a big chunk on credit card then cleared card immediately but think we have redress through them too.

The value of goods is limited to £30,000 on credit card, IIRC from our discussions with CAB some years back it is not pro rata, so even if you paid £10,000 on card for a £35,000 van, they are not liable, but by all means ask.

 

[QFour]

Odometer flashes constantly

The main Electronic Control Unit ( ECU ) is not happy and it tells the driver by flashing. Best people to solve the FIAT based bit is your local FIAT PROFESSIONAL DEALERSHIP. They have all the kit to work out what is exactly wrong with the ECU and access to the latest updates from the factory. Dealers don't have a clue. If it has a Sat Nav fitted that is not a FIAT one then you can have all sorts of problems.

SWC can be a right pig with a none FIAT head unit. You need a CanBus listener that can work out which buttons on the steering wheel have been pressed.

My write up on the FIAT Forum

The CX-401 worked but I had to amend it slightly inside to stop it transmitting on the CanBus as it started the Odometer Flashing.

Some people have been told by their dealers that all the Odometers flash ..

 

[REC]

The main Electronic Control Unit ( ECU ) is not happy and it tells the driver by flashing. Best people to solve the FIAT based bit is your local FIAT PROFESSIONAL DEALERSHIP. They have all the kit to work out what is exactly wrong with the ECU and access to the latest updates from the factory. Dealers don't have a clue. If it has a Sat Nav fitted that is not a FIAT one then you can have all sorts of problems.

SWC can be a right pig with a none FIAT head unit. You need a CanBus listener that can work out which buttons on the steering wheel have been pressed.

My write up on the FIAT Forum

The CX-401 worked but I had to amend it slightly inside to stop it transmitting on the CanBus as it started the Odometer Flashing.

Some people have been told by their dealers that all the Odometers flash ..

The fiat dealership has had it in three time ! Thought it was an easy fix but rebooked it as was not. Next had it for the day while they spoke to fiat to try and sort it . Fiat then developed a special software which should have fixed it...took it back for another day. Did not work so now waiting for a new radio!
Apparently Fiat "had never seen this particular issue!". The annoying thing is that the van was sold with miles on the clock as taken to exhibitions so the retailer should have known and sorted it out!

 

[QFour]

The fiat dealership has had it in three time ! Thought it was an easy fix but rebooked it as was not. Next had it for the day while they spoke to fiat to try and sort it . Fiat then developed a special software which should have fixed it...took it back for another day. Did not work so now waiting for a new radio!
Apparently Fiat "had never seen this particular issue!". The annoying thing is that the van was sold with miles on the clock as taken to exhibitions so the retailer should have known and sorted it out!

If it's a Fiat Connect5 I have one on top of the wardrobe, you cannot even put in a POI file in it. They expect you to do it one by one

Our local Fiat Dealer has been great. I sat with their tech guy in the cab while it was linked up so I could see what the problem was. The CX-401 unit I had connected to the CanBus was telling the ECU that it was a radio. The ECU didn't believe it .. Removal of the CX-401 SWC unit solved the problem so I didn't have any SWC. Next part was making the CX-401 unit into a dumb unit. Opened it up and traced the transmit line to the CanBus controller chip and cut the track. That shut it up and everything now works.

Hope you get it all sorted. It's very frustrating.

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 gives you the right to ask for a full refund in the first 30 days buying any product that proves to be faulty, including new and used cars.

The law also provides protection for servicing and repair work that renders your car faulty. If you believe that a service or piece of work hasn’t been carried out with reasonable care, you can ask for a refund or for the work to be repeated.

The law states that a vehicle must be of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described. If it’s not, you’re entitled to hand it back and get all your money back. It’s worth noting, however, that the seller might not accept your rejection, in which case you'd have to start court proceedings against them if you want a refund.

To be of satisfactory quality, a car must not be faulty or broken when purchased, and it must be of a standard that a reasonable person would expect, taking into account its age and mileage if it’s secondhand. An older car with more miles on its clock isn’t expected to be as good as a newer one with a lower mileage, although both should be roadworthy, reliable and of a quality consistent with their age and the price paid.

The car should be fit for the purpose for which it’s been supplied; this includes any specific purpose you tell a dealer you want to use it for prior to buying it. So if you’ve told a dealer you want to tow a caravan, the car should be capable of doing this. It should also match any description you were given of it, or any model shown to you when you bought it.

..

 

[trevskoda]

You do infact in law base to reject within 6mth if they have not put right in a fair time frame,go to cit advice right now or a legal eagle.

 

[Deleted member 43466]

hi
i was told by the CAB you have up to 6 years for complaints on motors.

 

[trevskoda]

hi
i was told by the CAB you have up to 6 years for complaints on motors.

The first six mths you have right to reject at no cost to you,after that you have 5 years but it is up to you to prove at your costs through courts.
As i run a marine biz i have to up on these things.
the law is set like this incase you buy say a boat and told it has never been damaged,only to find when say moving a bit of furniture to find a large chunk of grp repair to hull,this applies to cars /trucks where you are told never in accident etc or had panel repairs only to find down the line that it indeed had been repaired.
As for 6 mth reject this is normal and a time limit for sorting things applies but if not sorted to your satisfaction then automatic right to full or partial refund depending if and what use you may or may not have from the goods.
The only way traders can and do get round this is if down on recept as sold to trade or as seen heard and approved as sold with no redress as parts or repair,this is common in motor trade ,esp for old bangers.

 

[Channa]

The first six mths you have right to reject at no cost to you,after that you have 5 years but it is up to you to prove at your costs through courts.
As i run a marine biz i have to up on these things.
the law is set like this incase you buy say a boat and told it has never been damaged,only to find when say moving a bit of furniture to find a large chunk of grp repair to hull,this applies to cars /trucks where you are told never in accident etc or had panel repairs only to find down the line that it indeed had been repaired.
As for 6 mth reject this is normal and a time limit for sorting things applies but if not sorted to your satisfaction then automatic right to full or partial refund depending if and what use you may or may not have from the goods.
The only way traders can and do get round this is if down on recept as sold to trade or as seen heard and approved as sold with no redress as parts or repair,this is common in motor trade ,esp for old bangers.

I slightly disagree Trev, lack of a shower curtain isn't grounds to reject a vehicle ..ECU issues possibly are, other than the vehicle still functions albeit an issue.So the vehicle functions and can be used which negates any lien to reject

It wont come as a surprise but generally the general public are a nightmare to deal with expectations sometime can be unrealistic and the law needs to protect traders as much as it does the consumer a fact often forgotten resolving disputes.

The answer is simple trading standards, up to speed on the law and will broker a sensible conclusion the cab are useful but I have found sometimes amateur in the advice they can offer,

The notion sold as trade, as seen etc isa bit of a myth. As a trader the law assumes that as a professional and trader consumer regulations apply lots of cases that prove that. So simply to say sold as is not acceptable. Unless the person you deal with is also classes as trade

In practical terms that means trader has obligation to establish a vehicle isn't a write off, has finance outstanding and all the rest of it.

Another reason to use trading standards rather than cab is this....rogue traders and the charlatans they collate information en masse to snuff them out as a trader and consumer this has to be a good thing.

Like yourself my garage was selling a thousand cars a year so we had to be up to speed, ignorance no defence and all that

Re the OP her problem I suspect is her local trading standards differs in area to the garage involved per se not an issue other than it takes longer to establish remedy

Channa

 

[malagaoth]

I recognise that this is easy for me because it wasnt my money but not of these 'faults' sound terribly serious irritating certainly but there is nothing there which would prevent to full use (although perhaps not the full enjoyment) of the vehicle.

A shower curtain (top of the list!) shouldnt be too hard to get - OK it might not be the right one with the right colour scheme but it would allow use of the shower

in fact the only issue that is even remotely serious is the ECU problem.

I could be uncharitable and suggest that you have a severe case of buyers remorse and simply want out of the deal - but I wont

 

[trevskoda]

I slightly disagree Trev, lack of a shower curtain isn't grounds to reject a vehicle ..ECU issues possibly are, other than the vehicle still functions albeit an issue.So the vehicle functions and can be used which negates any lien to reject

It wont come as a surprise but generally the general public are a nightmare to deal with expectations sometime can be unrealistic and the law needs to protect traders as much as it does the consumer a fact often forgotten resolving disputes.

The answer is simple trading standards, up to speed on the law and will broker a sensible conclusion the cab are useful but I have found sometimes amateur in the advice they can offer,

The notion sold as trade, as seen etc isa bit of a myth. As a trader the law assumes that as a professional and trader consumer regulations apply lots of cases that prove that. So simply to say sold as is not acceptable. Unless the person you deal with is also classes as trade

In practical terms that means trader has obligation to establish a vehicle isn't a write off, has finance outstanding and all the rest of it.

Another reason to use trading standards rather than cab is this....rogue traders and the charlatans they collate information en masse to snuff them out as a trader and consumer this has to be a good thing.

Like yourself my garage was selling a thousand cars a year so we had to be up to speed, ignorance no defence and all that

Re the OP her problem I suspect is her local trading standards differs in area to the garage involved per se not an issue other than it takes longer to establish remedy

Channa

Agee with most of your stuff like shower curtains etc being a bit out,but stuff sold as to trade or spares repair often done here,i bought my newish to me proton as tail light warrenty at a very low trade price ,so no come back and was on trade sales docket,so it was up to me to do background leg work,the sales chap was onto to me anyway after about 5 mins so i had to tell him yes was in trade,we had a good larf after deal done,rotten lot us car traders or so i have been told.:scared::lol-053::lol-053::lol-053:

 

[Channa]

Agee with most of your stuff like shower curtains etc being a bit out,but stuff sold as to trade or spares repair often done here,i bought my newish to me proton as tail light warrenty at a very low trade price ,so no come back and was on trade sales docket,so it was up to me to do background leg work,the sales chap was onto to me anyway after about 5 mins so i had to tell him yes was in trade,we had a good larf after deal done,rotten lot us car traders or so i have been told.:scared::lol-053::lol-053::lol-053:

Dealing with traders proper fun ..I used to deal with one Pete Hickson a draughtsman but decided trading was more fun ....December one year asking if I had owt to sell told him job was a touch quiet ...yes he says all I have been offered is a minesweeper and a frigate !!!! ex Russian I think ...he would by anything one bought a llama moved it on to a circus ...proper character got locked up over the iraqui gun affair he was selling surplus medical stuff to the Saudis syringes and all that..you couldn't make it up thing I loved about him was happy to share when it went wrong swimming pool koi carp and a heron ,,,I should write a book ...At the block had his bidding boots on and natterinf thinking he was bidding on a beemer ...the sale it was a Granada ...many laughs I miss that tbh proper funny at times

Channa

 

[trevskoda]

Channa i loved the auction house just across the rd from me,i could point out all the horse traders/cowboys dead easy,i some times pity poor folk getting the ar-e well burnt going to auctions with dealers shill bidding on there own goods to get prices up,never mind the auchionear winding price up with invisable bidders.

 

[Channa]

trotting is part of the game ..in the block observe and you know the trade anyway. spent lots of time in BCA dare I admit found a buyer and I too would bid against them on my own car van etc

Petes lad would bid on the big smokers and straight down south on a transporter and bang through Measham ..I used Belle Vue in Manchester and put a few weasels in you Irish lads loved em ...wiped my feet and a touch of profit so all was well in life

You can have the best education in the world but doesn't matter a jot in the block traders are smart and yes got it wrong sometimes a different world

Don't miss me for £50 price of a Jack Russel puppy ...Auctions can be really good fun far more interesting than retail and the public


Channa

 

[maingate]

Write a letter to the Dealer telling them that you intend to start Legal proceedings under the Law to reject the vehicle as unfit for purpose and will pursue your claim through the Courts. If they are local to you, hand it directly to the Manager and walk away. Let them contact you, don't do any deals if he offers a better repair arrangement, let them stew on it while you look for a Solicitor with the proper background in Consumer Law.

Take it one step at a time.