Congestion Zone charges

Bradford Caz I have an exemption without it would cost me £50 each day. They said I could get a grant to convert it to be compliant & was granted £4500. I replied that it couldn't be converted & have they got £70000 for a compliant vehicle. I await a response.
 
Upthread, I noted that there were no air quality monitoring stations on the Air Quality England website that showed dangerously high pollution levels and the the worst was in London near to where the Underground comes to the surface. I've just seen the "Brown Car Guy" YouTuber's videos on the subject. The vlogger has acquired a hand-held air quality meter and gone around both the ULEZ zone and the LEZ zone that will soon be within the expanded ULEZ. It turns out that the ULEZ expansion isn't justifiable and that what needs to be done to clean up London is to thoroughly clean the Underground system. Anyway, parts 1 and 2 of the vlog below:


 
I just looked up the data for Marylebone Road in London and in the last 8 days it exceeded the healthy limit on 6 days and on 1 day was in the very unhealthy level where even fit people should avoid outdoor exertion. You can believe a youtuber with a hand held device if you like I prefer to believe the DEFRA ones which are properly calibrated and monitored.
 
I'll need a reference since your claim doesn't appear to concur with Air Quality England's data. Particularly, the data for Marlebone Road shows consistently LOW pollution levels (https://www.airqualityengland.co.uk/site/latest?site_id=MY1) with zero days of high pollution between 1st January and 3rd July this year. Below is the summary data for the station you cited. Personally, I prefer to look at the whole picture rather than some cherry-picked misinformation...


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My source was the DEFRA graph for NOX from the last few days and that is how I read it. The figures go up and down every day, I was looking at the peaks so perhaps this doesn’t show the wider picture.

More telling is the legal challenge to the further expansion of the ULEZ from 5 London Councils. They are not challenging the pollution figures or the need to further improve London’s air quality but have based the case on financial and consultation grounds. Surely if the pollution was in doubt this would be a key part of their legal action but this is not being challenged.
 
I just looked up the data for Marylebone Road in London and in the last 8 days it exceeded the healthy limit on 6 days and on 1 day was in the very unhealthy level where even fit people should avoid outdoor exertion. You can believe a youtuber with a hand held device if you like I prefer to believe the DEFRA ones which are properly calibrated and monitored.
I'd not take much notice of Defra, not know for anything useful or accurate, I used to be in the York office a lot and it was run by zombies running around like headless chickens, and various farming programs and channels seem to think the same.
 
Bradford said I qualify for £4500 grant to convert mine. I wrote back saying have they got the extra £70000 as it cannot be converted. The said thank you for the cancellation.
 
My source was the DEFRA graph for NOX from the last few days and that is how I read it. The figures go up and down every day, I was looking at the peaks so perhaps this doesn’t show the wider picture.

More telling is the legal challenge to the further expansion of the ULEZ from 5 London Councils. They are not challenging the pollution figures or the need to further improve London’s air quality but have based the case on financial and consultation grounds. Surely if the pollution was in doubt this would be a key part of their legal action but this is not being challenged.
DEFRA are required to support the Government "Net Zero" agenda and are given to publishing propaganda with the occasional piece of cherry-picked data to 'support' that agenda. The same organisation last year published "record high temperature for UK", that turned out to be from a sensor right next to the runway at RAF Coningsby at the time three Typhoon jets landed! (clicky link) That they use airfield temperature data in any way to support claims of climate change shows mendacity -- and certainly goes against scientific requirements to avoid heat islands etc.

Re. the legal action: AIUI, the grounds cited relate to procedural errors and are absolute. They allege that SadIQ hasn't followed proper procedure re consultation and discrimination. Unfortunately, the despot concerned would be entitled to raise his levy no matter what the pollution level and hence the fact that the air quality is already good would not provide legal grounds AFAICT.
 
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Oh of cause the days of baking hot temperatures where just a figment of my imagination, I notice in the link they decided to just make up timings to suit their agenda.
 
Oh and the bird sanctuary which recorded a small fraction of a degree less. What will they blame there, a sparrow with flatulence.
 
Oh of cause the days of baking hot temperatures where just a figment of my imagination, I notice in the link they decided to just make up timings to suit their agenda.
Hmmm... the article cited usual practice: that pilots record times to the nearest 5 minutes and then gave the upper and lower bounds commensurate with the logged times. A flight of aircraft would normally land in close time and that three of the four aircraft recorded times that put the most likely time of landing between 15:12 and 15:13 -- right at the time of the 'blip' in temperature and noted that the temperature was 0.6°C lower just one minute later. At the very least, it's bad practice to rely on temperatures taken at heat islands. Obviously, this doesn't fit with your agenda but it is clear and transparent.

Oh and the bird sanctuary which recorded a small fraction of a degree less. What will they blame there, a sparrow with flatulence.
Link please. Without knowing all the details (including the co-ords of the station) you're just arguing from assertion.
 
Hmmm... the article cited usual practice: that pilots record times to the nearest 5 minutes and then gave the upper and lower bounds commensurate with the logged times. A flight of aircraft would normally land in close time and that three of the four aircraft recorded times that put the most likely time of landing between 15:12 and 15:13 -- right at the time of the 'blip' in temperature and noted that the temperature was 0.6°C lower just one minute later. At the very least, it's bad practice to rely on temperatures taken at heat islands. Obviously, this doesn't fit with your agenda but it is clear and transparent
All just conjecture, also 45 other weather stations recorded their highest temperatures on that day. That obviously doesn't fit your agenda.
 
Hmmm... the article cited usual practice: that pilots record times to the nearest 5 minutes and then gave the upper and lower bounds commensurate with the logged times. A flight of aircraft would normally land in close time and that three of the four aircraft recorded times that put the most likely time of landing between 15:12 and 15:13 -- right at the time of the 'blip' in temperature and noted that the temperature was 0.6°C lower just one minute later. At the very least, it's bad practice to rely on temperatures taken at heat islands. Obviously, this doesn't fit with your agenda but it is clear and transparent.


Link please. Without knowing all the details (including the co-ords of the station) you're just arguing from assertion.
I can’t be bothered to dig back into last years individual records when there is so much evidence of record breaking temperatures. By all means call it argument by assertion but I am prepared to accept the official figures at face value and don’t feel any need to defend them further.
 
I can’t be bothered to dig back into last years individual records when there is so much evidence of record breaking temperatures. By all means call it argument by assertion but I am prepared to accept the official figures at face value and don’t feel any need to defend them further.
Whichever way you look at it, the previous record was exceeded at 46 different certified weather stations, that must have been a lot of flights across the country by Typhoons.
 
All just conjecture, also 45 other weather stations recorded their highest temperatures on that day. That obviously doesn't fit your agenda.
While that day might have been the hottest that year, it was not the hottest in history and the apparent increase in most cases is because the weather stations concerned are no longer fit for purpose. Perhaps you'd like to give the list of weather stations reporting their highest temperatures. Historically, the 1940s was much hotter than today -- but the "official record" always seems to 'start' after that period and/or the 'adjustments' are made to the official record. Further, many weather stations were either built or have become encapsulated in heat islands and it is this, not climatic temperature, that gives the apparent increase. In the USA in particular, this phenomenon has become epidemic, as the Heartland Institute found at their 2009 and 2022 weather station surveys that found well over 60% of US surface weather stations have an error potential of greater than 4°C. While I haven't seen an equivalent report for the UK, I strongly suspect the same issues apply and so I would need details of every one of the weather stations your argument relies upon so that assessment could be made against the criteria that NOAA, the Met Office, et al. publish but so often fail to meet.


Whatever, while I've given specifics, your side of the discussion seems reluctant to reciprocate with actual evidence. Perhaps we need to agree to disagree...
 
Perhaps we need to agree to disagree...
Yes perhaps that is best. Some of us put our faith in official organisations such as the Met Office and NOAA and others in organisations like the Heartland Institute a ‘leading free-market think tank’. We are unlikely to reconcile our views.
 
... of course, remembering that this is actually about air quality and the temperature thing was introduced merely to show that DEFRA have been caught out 'fiddling the books' in more than one theatre!
 
... of course, remembering that this is actually about air quality and the temperature thing was introduced merely to show that DEFRA have been caught out 'fiddling the books' in more than one theatre!
So you say but fortunately we have agreed to differ.
 

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