Cerbo S and GX wire costs.

[alwaysared]

If this the same type then maybe you can work it out? Only thing is it appears to have one missing
On the JST plugs I used to make my own VE cables the colours were as follows:
Yellow: 5V (+)
Black: (-)
Red: Rx
White: Tx

Regards,
Del

 

[wildebus]

This Canbus question is something I am interested in as I am looking into connecting my Lithium Batteries (which have an RJ45 Canbus/RS485 physical connection) to the Victron Cerbo GX also.

But looking at the cable pinout Victron supplied for their "Type A" and "Type B" alternative seem to be different to what appears to be an 'standard' for Canbus Pinouts for both the Victron side and the battery side?
http://www.interfacebus.com/Can_Bus_Connector_Pinout.html#c seems to suggest it has info on an industry agreed standard?

The Controller Area Network (CAN) specification defines the Data Link Layer, ISO 11898 defines the Physical Layer.​

The CAN bus is a Balanced (differential) 2-wire interface running over either a Shielded Twisted Pair (STP), Un-shielded Twisted Pair (UTP), or Ribbon cable.​

The pin outs on this page are associated with the CANopen protocol. For additional information refer to the main CAN Bus page.​

So would seem that if there IS a standard, it is not very well adhered to - so something to watch out for and any cables would need to be carefully spec'ed. I don't know what would happen if the wrong pinouts were used and if any harm would come to the device or it just would not work?

 

[alwaysared]

I follow this guy on Youtube and although it's not motorhome related it is Off Grid and Victron related, so I looked on his channel and came across this video which maybe of interest

Regards,
Del

 

[wildebus]

I find him quite hard going TBH . He is all over the place sometimes. (not saying I could do any better, but I am not making videos).

 

[1 Cup]

I find him quite hard going TBH . He is all over the place sometimes. (not saying I could do any better, but I am not making videos).

Yes he's the man from delmonty he's says YES YOU CAN. AND his videos got me this far . Andy his his name . As I titled above video on you tug

 

[1 Cup]

Positive and negative wire is power. So that's a given. And only earth's used.

Can bus , VE and rx tx to my thinking is just communications wires sending rx tx or hi and low or A and B it's just talking and listening. .thingy
Morse code must have been the first signal sent .
So how do we translate signal for our equipment. Or dose it Evan need it ? as that what these boxes do for a living. Cerbo rasp pie and or rs485. Terminal Block above with 3 wires as the equipment is A and B. Can bus high low. Andy plugged his bms in the usb slot with a third unit. But do we need this now the video I high lighted software is down loaded.

Bits, packets, buld rate and errors are all new words for me !.

 

[1 Cup]

If this the same type then maybe you can work it out? Only thing is it appears to have one missing
On the JST plugs I used to make my own VE cables the colours were as follows:
Yellow: 5V (+)
Black: (-)
Red: Rx
White: Tx
View attachment 123570
Regards,
Del

Is tx white and rx yellow ?
So can bus high is A and canbus low B ?

 

[merl]

Hmm,
My knowledge of digital electronics is limited but FWIW here's my take.
In order to communicate the units will have to be connected to each other correctly AND speak the same language.

If you're connecting several Victron devices together then their protocol (language) will already be the same so I'd expect them to simply connect together by a data cable, via usb (if possible?) then I'd expect that to simply plug and play but any other form of connection will require the correct orientation of the interconnecting wires, I'd also expect you'd need to connect between identical types of connector also so RJ45 to RJ45 etc, protocols likely differ across different types of connectors and this is where a raspberry pi will be used to convert the data. Conversion will probably be needed between different brands too.
RJ45s can carry both power and data over 4 pairs of cables, I'd expect the cable wiring to follow expected and standardised codes (pretty much exclusively pin 1 to pin 8, 2-7 etc) but of course they may not have. As we're talking standard TTL 5v logic levels here then getting the connections wrong should mean no harm will result to either device, just a lack of communication.
From 1cups post it sounds like the Victron data cables are super expensive? If so personally I'd buy just one bonafide Victron data cable and test/deconstruct it to ascertain how it's wired and then clone my own to save money and keep the cables to the exact required lengths, I hate bunching up cables that are too long!

 

[wildebus]

Hmm,
My knowledge of digital electronics is limited but FWIW here's my take.
In order to communicate the units will have to be connected to each other correctly AND speak the same language.

If you're connecting several Victron devices together then their protocol (language) will already be the same so I'd expect them to simply connect together by a data cable, via usb (if possible?) then I'd expect that to simply plug and play but any other form of connection will require the correct orientation of the interconnecting wires, I'd also expect you'd need to connect between identical types of connector also so RJ45 to RJ45 etc, protocols likely differ across different types of connectors and this is where a raspberry pi will be used to convert the data. Conversion will probably be needed between different brands too.
RJ45s can carry both power and data over 4 pairs of cables, I'd expect the cable wiring to follow expected and standardised codes (pretty much exclusively pin 1 to pin 8, 2-7 etc) but of course they may not have. As we're talking standard TTL 5v logic levels here then getting the connections wrong should mean no harm will result to either device, just a lack of communication.
From 1cups post it sounds like the Victron data cables are super expensive? If so personally I'd buy just one bonafide Victron data cable and test/deconstruct it to ascertain how it's wired and then clone my own to save money and keep the cables to the exact required lengths, I hate bunching up cables that are too long!

Just a note and a comment dragged up from back of my head .....
You said:

As we're talking standard TTL 5v logic levels here then getting the connections wrong should mean no harm will result to either device, just a lack of communication

Some of the Victron kit and inputs have a 3.3V level comms and even a 5V level signal may NOT be a good idea and is not recommended. This is why the comms cables often tend to not have a power line, just signal and ground.

Obviously this is far more important when mixing 12V with 3.3V or 5V systems (and I have used Opto-isolators to do the 'voltage conversion' from 12V signal level sources into the Victron GX 3.3V inputs). But I would be a little wary with connecting 5V to 3.3V as well.
The Raspberry Pi is of course not Victron hardware and the type of connectors that seem to be discussed are all USB inputs (even though there are two sets of Canbus inputs in the Cerbo GX, it appears they are getting ignored by all the options talked about in the videos.

 

[merl]

Just a note and a comment dragged up from back of my head .....
You said:

Some of the Victron kit and inputs have a 3.3V level comms and even a 5V level signal may NOT be a good idea and is not recommended. This is why the comms cables often tend to not have a power line, just signal and ground.

Obviously this is far more important when mixing 12V with 3.3V or 5V systems (and I have used Opto-isolators to do the 'voltage conversion' from 12V signal level sources into the Victron GX 3.3V inputs). But I would be a little wary with connecting 5V to 3.3V as well.
The Raspberry Pi is of course not Victron hardware and the type of connectors that seem to be discussed are all USB inputs (even though there are two sets of Canbus inputs in the Cerbo GX, it appears they are getting ignored by all the options talked about in the videos.

What I meant from my post (and reading it back wasn't very clear) was that if you were to interconnect two Victron devices via RJ45 and accidentally connected them incorrectly with the wrong cable orientation then I wouldn't expect any damage. The worst thing would be to take supply power directly to a logic input but this wouldn't result in harm because the logic input simply 'sees' this as logic high.
I'd assumed Victron used 5V logic but from what you're saying Victron uses Cmos ICs so the supply will 3.3v but the logic high will also be 3.3V so same scenario applies.
Were getting super techy here but yes, 5V TTL logic driving Cmos 3.3V levels isn't recommended unless the Cmos chip input is specifically 5V tolerant. (some are, some aren't) typically some sort of level shifter must be used much like your opto-coupler. Interestingly 3.3V driving 5V usually works fine because the logic boundaries still work.
I haven't touched logic circuitry since my mid twenties so my knowledge is quite basic, I've dabbled with it recently in the form of raspberry Pi and Arduino, (interestingly one is 5V the other 3.3V) I'd have been all over them 30 years ago but for some reason I cant get motivated to get 'into' them, must be an age thing! Now, give me something with good old valves in them........

 

[wildebus]

What I meant from my post (and reading it back wasn't very clear) was that if you were to interconnect two Victron devices via RJ45 and accidentally connected them incorrectly with the wrong cable orientation then I wouldn't expect any damage. The worst thing would be to take supply power directly to a logic input but this wouldn't result in harm because the logic input simply 'sees' this as logic high.
I'd assumed Victron used 5V logic but from what you're saying Victron uses Cmos ICs so the supply will 3.3v but the logic high will also be 3.3V so same scenario applies.

Victron do some weird things ... they want 3.3V on some inputs, they have 5V in AND out on others. Their Circuit Board on their Lynx Distributor needs a 5V supply so you have to drive it externally when they could very easily have used the same power input circuitry that is on the Cerbo GX that allows you to connect anything from a 5V to a 70V DC input (which would have made perfect sense since the DC voltage floating around inside the Lynx box is anything from 12V to +50V)

Were getting super techy here but yes, 5V TTL logic driving Cmos 3.3V levels isn't recommended unless the Cmos chip input is specifically 5V tolerant. (some are, some aren't) typically some sort of level shifter must be used much like your opto-coupler. Interestingly 3.3V driving 5V usually works fine because the logic boundaries still work.

I haven't touched logic circuitry since my mid twenties so my knowledge is quite basic, I've dabbled with it recently in the form of raspberry Pi and Arduino, (interestingly one is 5V the other 3.3V) I'd have been all over them 30 years ago but for some reason I cant get motivated to get 'into' them, must be an age thing! Now, give me something with good old valves in them........

I know what you mean (except for the valve thing ... too old for me!! ).
One of my favourite reference books in the 80's was the TI TTL Data Book I found working out circuits with Boolean Logic and the simple 74 series TTL chips very satisying and a lot more logical ( ) than todays stuff!

(Still useful doing the logic though - that got me to the operational design of my Lithium VSDR Controller )

 

[merl]

If Victron are mixing up the voltages and logic like that then probably best NOT to use standard RJ45 connectors just in case
Ahhh I've still got my Babani Beginner's guide to logic ICs from the late 70s kicking around somewhere!
I recall building a circuit for a mate (think it was a variable windscreen wiper delay device from a time when owning such a technologically amazing piece of kit was mind-blowing). It didn't work! After checking and re checking my work I checked out the actual logic around the chips circuitry and reasoned that they'd made a mistake with the actual circuit diagram. A slight alteration to the wiring and I surprised myself and was as chuffed as a dog with two dicks because it now worked perfectly!
Happy days indeed!

 

[1 Cup]

Can bus send signal at 3.5 volts . But it has priority, normal and slow signal responce as for cars still data 0 and ones
1 to 9 priority ie abs instance responce time
9 to 27 normal ie window wipers 8 second responce time
And 27 ish to 100 ie heated seats 30second respone time
I think a battery is normal. Response time..

Seen this befor but looked again and it has can bus and or rs485 on software I noticed

That one may 2023

,

above seems like its got both !

 

[1 Cup]

W

Hmm,
My knowledge of digital electronics is limited but FWIW here's my take.
In order to communicate the units will have to be connected to each other correctly AND speak the same language.

If you're connecting several Victron devices together then their protocol (language) will already be the same so I'd expect them to simply connect together by a data cable, via usb (if possible?) then I'd expect that to simply plug and play but any other form of connection will require the correct orientation of the interconnecting wires, I'd also expect you'd need to connect between identical types of connector also so RJ45 to RJ45 etc, protocols likely differ across different types of connectors and this is where a raspberry pi will be used to convert the data. Conversion will probably be needed between different brands too.
RJ45s can carry both power and data over 4 pairs of cables, I'd expect the cable wiring to follow expected and standardised codes (pretty much exclusively pin 1 to pin 8, 2-7 etc) but of course they may not have. As we're talking standard TTL 5v logic levels here then getting the connections wrong should mean no harm will result to either device, just a lack of communication.
From 1cups post it sounds like the Victron data cables are super expensive? If so personally I'd buy just one bonafide Victron data cable and test/deconstruct it to ascertain how it's wired and then clone my own to save money and keep the cables to the exact required lengths, I hate bunching up cables that are too long!

This is the cheapest cable I could find for VE direct. Still £13.25 At 30cms

no way of opening so will cut lead. Ouch

 

[1 Cup]

Got a usb driver still to be delivered that Andy used OGG but i want canbus for battery x2 but victron needs to upgrade software but will work it out for cerbo.. . My electricity done on Sundays, so back to kitchen and air fryer today.

 

[wildebus]

W



This is the cheapest cable I could find for VE direct. Still £13.25 At 30cmsView attachment 123648no way of opening so will cut lead. Ouch

If all you are wanting is a plug that will fit in into the Victron VE.Direct sockets and not a VE.Direct-to-USB lead, then have a look at this - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266159397039

These are pre-wired one end and bare the other. I use a pair of these to make my own VE.Direct-to-VE.Direct cables of whatever length I want, with typically some alarm cable to make up the length of cable in-between soldered to either end.
I found the DIY VE.Direct to USB cables never worked 100% reliably compared to the official cables, but the VE.Direct cables either end are purely just wires and nothing else and all the DIY cables for those have always worked fine.

 

[wildebus]

Hmm,
My knowledge of digital electronics is limited but FWIW here's my take.
In order to communicate the units will have to be connected to each other correctly AND speak the same language.

If you're connecting several Victron devices together then their protocol (language) will already be the same so I'd expect them to simply connect together by a data cable, via usb (if possible?) then I'd expect that to simply plug and play but any other form of connection will require the correct orientation of the interconnecting wires, I'd also expect you'd need to connect between identical types of connector also so RJ45 to RJ45 etc, protocols likely differ across different types of connectors and this is where a raspberry pi will be used to convert the data. Conversion will probably be needed between different brands too.
RJ45s can carry both power and data over 4 pairs of cables, I'd expect the cable wiring to follow expected and standardised codes (pretty much exclusively pin 1 to pin 8, 2-7 etc) but of course they may not have. As we're talking standard TTL 5v logic levels here then getting the connections wrong should mean no harm will result to either device, just a lack of communication.
From 1cups post it sounds like the Victron data cables are super expensive? If so personally I'd buy just one bonafide Victron data cable and test/deconstruct it to ascertain how it's wired and then clone my own to save money and keep the cables to the exact required lengths, I hate bunching up cables that are too long!

Just another reply to your post with a different slant to my answer ....
I just saw this comment on the Victron Community forum which is interesting. Note that all I am doing is copying and pasting the comment, no validation about it either way, but assuming it IS right, would look like, as you have said, no real need to care about mixing 5V and 3.3V level signals
From thread https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/15316/bluesolar-mppt-7515-vedirect-connector.html
"That Wiki keeps referring to RS232. There is no RS232 around VE.Direct, it's 5V TTL for the MPPT's and 3.3V TTL for the BMV's.
I've had to put a number of people straight around here. They shove +-12V RS232 signals up their poor little BMV and wonder why it's protesting,"

 

[alwaysared]

I found the DIY VE.Direct to USB cables never worked 100% reliably compared to the official cables.

They do if you get the correct bits

Regards,
Del

 

[wildebus]

They do if you get the correct bits

Regards,
Del

yup, the ones labelled "Victron"

(maybe instead of a silly wink, tell people what the "correct bits" are could be more useful?)

 

[alwaysared]

yup, the ones labelled "Victron"

(maybe instead of a silly wink, tell people what the "correct bits" are could be more useful?)

I have listed the bits I've used on here in previous posts and still nobody takes any notice, but mine have only been working since October 2019 so obviously not as reliable as the over priced "Victron" ones

Regards,
Del