Caravan and Motorhome club website

[Fisherman]

OK, it's the members' club, so maybe it's up to them to take action to allow the 4-hour slots?

If it's voted for I would accept it, but given that in your own example there could be a new carpark full of owners next to sites wanting to use the facilities, reducing the time available for those on site, I'm not sure I would vote for it to. It wouldn't affect me personally, being self-contained in my van, bit it seems a bit off.

Andy, we constantly struggle here in the U.K. to maintain our freedoms, and ability to wild camp. CAMPRA have done a lot of good work, and have created some resistance to the anti wild camping attitudes in this country, they have been successful up here in Scotland, were new Aires are opening on an almost weekly basis. The C&MC membership now is currently around 50/50 between caravan and Motorhome users. But in the next few years we will become the majority members. And most of their Motorhome members would like to see their club actually stand up and put their case forward, but they are far more interested in selling you overnight stays, insurance, foreign trips, ferry journeys, breakdown recovery cover etc. the only body that stands up for us is CAMPRA.
Recently the C&MC published an article stating that wild camping was not tolerated within the U.K., even stating that what we do is illegal.

When you contrast this to attitudes in other countries throughout the free world our situation is dire. Most on here travel to Europe were they are made welcome by communities that support us. I have spoken to many Europeans who cannot believe what we put up with on our island. And the two largest organisations who could fight our corner chose to work against us, whilst taking our money.
Hopefully one day more of us will take up prominent positions within these two large organisations, but that day if it ever happens is years away.

 

[merl]

Recently the C&MC published an article stating that wild camping was not tolerated within the U.K., even stating that what we do is illegal.

A couple of years ago I broached the subject with the CAMC of allowing members to use the facilities for a short period of time without an overnight stay much in the same way that the CCC do. I was told that to do so would deemed as the CAMC to be promoting wild camping which was "illegal' .
I informed the girl that I'd been wild camping for years in England and had never broken the law at any time, I also asked why their magazine often had images of people in off road, 'non site' situations with tables and chairs outside the van enjoying the splendid views? Weren't the CAMC being hypocritical?
I was told that "it wasn't illegal to carry out such activity during the day, it was the sleeping overnight that was illegal" . I told her that if indeed this is the knowledge of the law held by the people who run the CAMC then they should brush up on the law before making decisions based on untruths. I finally asked how lorry drivers were allowed to sleep overnight in their cabs if it was illegal? I never got a reply.

 

[AndyWill64]

Andy, we constantly struggle here in the U.K. to maintain our freedoms, and ability to wild camp. CAMPRA have done a lot of good work, and have created some resistance to the anti wild camping attitudes in this country, they have been successful up here in Scotland, were new Aires are opening on an almost weekly basis. The C&MC membership now is currently around 50/50 between caravan and Motorhome users. But in the next few years we will become the majority members. And most of their Motorhome members would like to see their club actually stand up and put their case forward, but they are far more interested in selling you overnight stays, insurance, foreign trips, ferry journeys, breakdown recovery cover etc. the only body that stands up for us is CAMPRA.
Recently the C&MC published an article stating that wild camping was not tolerated within the U.K., even stating that what we do is illegal.

When you contrast this to attitudes in other countries throughout the free world our situation is dire. Most on here travel to Europe were they are made welcome by communities that support us. I have spoken to many Europeans who cannot believe what we put up with on our island. And the two largest organisations who could fight our corner chose to work against us, whilst taking our money.
Hopefully one day more of us will take up prominent positions within these two large organisations, but that day if it ever happens is years away.

Yes, I understand that, and as someone who intends to become a full-timer at some point, I agree that the situation in this country is pretty poor, but I'm not sure that attacking CAMC for running their club their way is valid.

I'm not as fully involved in this as many of you - maybe I should become more so - but my understanding is that what used to be to some degree tolerated has been made "illegal" by that sly and evil Patel woman.

I have parked up in laybys before and have never been questioned or moved on. My understanding now is that it's up to us to ask permission from the land owner (eg, Council) before parking, but no action is likely to be taken unless we refuse to move on if asked. I think there's something about the number of vans involved too.

Yes, CAMpRA are doing good work. It is taking too long, and it will take more time, but surely it's the law in this small-minded country that needs to change first.

 

[Fisherman]

Yes, I understand that, and as someone who intends to become a full-timer at some point, I agree that the situation in this country is pretty poor, but I'm not sure that attacking CAMC for running their club their way is valid.

I'm not as fully involved in this as many of you - maybe I should become more so - but my understanding is that what used to be to some degree tolerated has been made "illegal" by that sly and evil Patel woman.

I have parked up in laybys before and have never been questioned or moved on. My understanding now is that it's up to us to ask permission from the land owner (eg, Council) before parking, but no action is likely to be taken unless we refuse to move on if asked. I think there's something about the number of vans involved too.

Yes, CAMpRA are doing good work. It is taking too long, and it will take more time, but surely it's the law in this small-minded country that needs to change first.

I have not attacked the C&MC, I have merely stated the facts as I see them.
In fact they have attacked us, many of who are their members with some of their comments, and attitudes towards us.
Andy if you are content to be a member of a club who have undermined us, who see us as no better than freeloaders then that’s fine by me.
If wild camping was banned outright tomorrow, they would open up the champagne bottles, have no doubt about this.

 

[TJBi]

<snip> I agree that the situation in this country is pretty poor, but I'm not sure that attacking CAMC for running their club their way is valid.

<snip>

The club should presumably be run in the members' interest, and if some of them are indicating that dump & fill would be useful, I'm not convinced that refusing to provide the service is running the club in members' interest.

 

[AndyWill64]

The club should presumably be run in the members' interest, and if some of them are indicating that dump & fill would be useful, I'm not convinced that refusing to provide the service is running the club in members' interest.

Fair enough, as I said, maybe the members should take action. But then it would depend on whether "some" of the members and "the majority" are the same thing.

 

[Fisherman]

Fair enough, as I said, maybe the members should take action. But then it would depend on whether "some" of the members and "the majority" are the same thing.

You don’t need a majority within any club membership to do something that would prove helpful to a large section of your membership. If say 25% of the clubs members want and would benefit from having paid access then that would more than be enough. The reason they don’t allow access is because they are anti wild camping. They are anti what a large proportion of their members enjoy doing. The club have acted on behalf of their members on several other issues, getting involved with government officials, putting forward their POV on behalf of their members. Yet on the issue of access to parking places for their Motorhome members they do worse than nothing.
Most independent campsites allow paid access, very few don’t.
Yet we are not members of these campsites, they don’t charge us an annual membership fee. They don’t ask those who are using these facilities if they agree. They see this as a means of earning additional income, whilst assisting with the disposal of chemical waste, and providing access to freshwater.

 

[AndyWill64]

You don’t need a majority within any club membership to do something that would prove helpful to a large section of your membership. If say 25% of the clubs members want and would benefit from having paid access then that would more than be enough. The reason they don’t allow access is because they are anti wild camping. They are anti what a large proportion of their members enjoy doing. The club have acted on behalf of their members on several other issues, getting involved with government officials, putting forward their POV on behalf of their members. Yet on the issue of access to parking places for their Motorhome members they do worse than nothing.
Most independent campsites allow paid access, very few don’t.
Yet we are not members of these campsites, they don’t charge us an annual membership fee. They don’t ask those who are using these facilities if they agree. They see this as a means of earning additional income, whilst assisting with the disposal of chemical waste, and providing access to freshwater.

Not really sure I'd be happy with 75% of paid members having to put with behaviour only 25% want.

But if there are lots of other places offering the facilities required I don't see the problem. Why is access to CAMC so important?

 

[Fisherman]

Not really sure I'd be happy with 75% of paid members having to put with behaviour only 25% want.

But if there are lots of other places offering the facilities required I don't see the problem. Why is access to CAMC so important?

I don’t think you understand my point, the vast majority of the 75% don’t give a hoot, it won’t affect them. it’s not them who are preventing this service from being offered, it’s those running the C&MC. When staying in a campsite we all have to “put up” with things. Some folk don’t like dogs, others don’t like children running about, I could go on.
Yes there are lots of other places trying to provide a service for their customers, whilst the C&MC refuse to do likewise for their MEMBERS. Sorry but this is my last post on this subject. All the best when you go full time, I hope things work out for you.

 

[AndyWill64]

I don’t think you understand my point, the vast majority of the 75% don’t give a hoot, it won’t affect them. it’s not them who are preventing this service from being offered, it’s those running the C&MC. When staying in a campsite we all have to “put up” with things. Some folk don’t like dogs, others don’t like children running about, I could go on.
Yes there are lots of other places trying to provide a service for their customers, whilst the C&MC refuse to do likewise for their MEMBERS. Sorry but this is my last post on this subject. All the best when you go full time, I hope things work out for you.

I do understand your point. I just don't agree with it.

 

[Debroos]

Andy, we constantly struggle here in the U.K. to maintain our freedoms, and ability to wild camp. CAMPRA have done a lot of good work, and have created some resistance to the anti wild camping attitudes in this country, they have been successful up here in Scotland, were new Aires are opening on an almost weekly basis. The C&MC membership now is currently around 50/50 between caravan and Motorhome users. But in the next few years we will become the majority members. And most of their Motorhome members would like to see their club actually stand up and put their case forward, but they are far more interested in selling you overnight stays, insurance, foreign trips, ferry journeys, breakdown recovery cover etc. the only body that stands up for us is CAMPRA.
Recently the C&MC published an article stating that wild camping was not tolerated within the U.K., even stating that what we do is illegal.

When you contrast this to attitudes in other countries throughout the free world our situation is dire. Most on here travel to Europe were they are made welcome by communities that support us. I have spoken to many Europeans who cannot believe what we put up with on our island. And the two largest organisations who could fight our corner chose to work against us, whilst taking our money.
Hopefully one day more of us will take up prominent positions within these two large organisations, but that day if it ever happens is years away.

Whilst I agree that the increase in Aires is very welcome, it has to be said that it is still another form of campsite and not wilding

 

[barryd]

I did a bit of digging this morning as I came across a claim that the club site has been the victim of a ransomware attack and I found this.
Ransom-DB - Ransomware Tracking



and then this

https://twitter.com/x/status/1750512158960501078

And this

https://twitter.com/x/status/1750526438644548005

No idea about how valid this database is or the tweets but they do match up with each other.

The HackManac one states they have until the 9th of Feb to cough up.

 

[Fisherman]

Whilst I agree that the increase in Aires is very welcome, it has to be said that it is still another form of campsite and not wilding

The way I look at this is these Aires take pressure of the wild camping park ups that are available. They offer greater choice for us. Whereas before you either wild camped, went to a campsite, or a CL, you now have another choice. And whereas campsites and many CLS are not in locations suitable for us many Aires are in or near towns. They also help to reduce poor behaviour by some who have dumped their waste due to lack of facilities. But bottom line, and being pragmatic, something had to be done, and up here in Scotland there are still lots of places to wild camp.

 

[Nabsim]

Yes, I understand that, and as someone who intends to become a full-timer at some point, I agree that the situation in this country is pretty poor, but I'm not sure that attacking CAMC for running their club their way is valid.

I'm not as fully involved in this as many of you - maybe I should become more so - but my understanding is that what used to be to some degree tolerated has been made "illegal" by that sly and evil Patel woman.

I have parked up in laybys before and have never been questioned or moved on. My understanding now is that it's up to us to ask permission from the land owner (eg, Council) before parking, but no action is likely to be taken unless we refuse to move on if asked. I think there's something about the number of vans involved too.

Yes, CAMpRA are doing good work. It is taking too long, and it will take more time, but surely it's the law in this small-minded country that needs to change first.

I don’t think I have attacked the CMC, I didn’t like the stance they took for members who liked to stay off site so didn’t renew my membership. The CCC have made some efforts to make life easier for members who prefer to stay off site so I continue to stay with them. My opinions and actions are my own and we all have the rights to express them but we do not have to agree.

In the past these big two companies (not clubs any more in my opinion) have done more to prevent people being allowed to stay off site than anyone else and both were as bad as each other.

Just to clarify one point you make about Patel making something illegal. That is not the case. The instance of trespass has been changed from a civil offence to a criminal offence. If you are thinking of going full time in this country it would be well worth you getting familiar with the Act. While I still have a house I spend a good ten months of the year in my van in the U.K. and nothing at all has changed for me since this Act became law. You can continue to stay in lay-boys or roadside if applicable, that has not changed.

Personally a lot of the aires that have been set up in this country are not for me either. A charge of £15 to stop somewhere with no facilities parked closer than in a lay-by is not progress to me. The only good point is people using them leave more places for me to park elsewhere.

What some folks forget is the vast majority of motorhome users hardly ever use their vans and when they do they drive to a campsite where they stray. I have little in common with most of these people and would prefer to be with a bunch of social misfits somewhere sat around a fire enjoying life. Good job we are all different huh

If you wish to find out more about what changed in the Act Google Police Crime Sentencing and Court Act 2022. The relevant part is in section 4.
Challenges are currently being made and you can find more here: https://www.gypsy-traveller.org/new...d-in-high-court-over-discriminatory-pcsc-act/

 

[Fisherman]

I don’t think I have attacked the CMC, I didn’t like the stance they took for members who liked to stay off site so didn’t renew my membership. The CCC have made some efforts to make life easier for members who prefer to stay off site so I continue to stay with them. My opinions and actions are my own and we all have the rights to express them but we do not have to agree.

In the past these big two companies (not clubs any more in my opinion) have done more to prevent people being allowed to stay off site than anyone else and both were as bad as each other.

Just to clarify one point you make about Patel making something illegal. That is not the case. The instance of trespass has been changed from a civil offence to a criminal offence. If you are thinking of going full time in this country it would be well worth you getting familiar with the Act. While I still have a house I spend a good ten months of the year in my van in the U.K. and nothing at all has changed for me since this Act became law. You can continue to stay in lay-boys or roadside if applicable, that has not changed.

Personally a lot of the aires that have been set up in this country are not for me either. A charge of £15 to stop somewhere with no facilities parked closer than in a lay-by is not progress to me. The only good point is people using them leave more places for me to park elsewhere.

What some folks forget is the vast majority of motorhome users hardly ever use their vans and when they do they drive to a campsite where they stray. I have little in common with most of these people and would prefer to be with a bunch of social misfits somewhere sat around a fire enjoying life. Good job we are all different huh

If you wish to find out more about what changed in the Act Google Police Crime Sentencing and Court Act 2022. The relevant part is in section 4.
Challenges are currently being made and you can find more here: https://www.gypsy-traveller.org/new...d-in-high-court-over-discriminatory-pcsc-act/

Just one point about Aires Nab.
I agree that they take pressure of us, that’s something that some have not taken notice of. But most who charge £15 do include facilities, and there are free Aires out there to. And I suppose it all comes down to what we refer to as an Aire.
IE we recently spent a night in Hawick in a car park with chemical waste and water for free. But it’s not referred to as an Aire, just a carpark.
Your comments about the C&MC are probably held by most of us on here, though not all. I hope in years to come they will rethink how they treat their many Motorhome owners, if not they will continue to lose them every year.

 

[Nabsim]

I did say a lot of the aires are not for me, I should maybe have put a tenner rather than £15 though. I love the facility at Falls of Shin as they have some nice walks as well. Drinking water, rubbish disposal and overnight parking free, £7 to empty cassette. I go out my way to have at least one night there to get the walks in. Probably wouldn’t get on in season but this winter one night there were two other vans and second night just me. Think leccy works out a bit expensive but in Winter I usually move a lot so not needing it.

Only problem I had for a month in Scotland was no water, everywhere I stopped that had taps were frozen solid. Made the scenery look even nicer though lol

 

[guerdeval]

I don’t think I have attacked the CMC, I didn’t like the stance they took for members who liked to stay off site so didn’t renew my membership. The CCC have made some efforts to make life easier for members who prefer to stay off site so I continue to stay with them. My opinions and actions are my own and we all have the rights to express them but we do not have to agree.

In the past these big two companies (not clubs any more in my opinion) have done more to prevent people being allowed to stay off site than anyone else and both were as bad as each other.

Just to clarify one point you make about Patel making something illegal. That is not the case. The instance of trespass has been changed from a civil offence to a criminal offence. If you are thinking of going full time in this country it would be well worth you getting familiar with the Act. While I still have a house I spend a good ten months of the year in my van in the U.K. and nothing at all has changed for me since this Act became law. You can continue to stay in lay-boys or roadside if applicable, that has not changed.

Personally a lot of the aires that have been set up in this country are not for me either. A charge of £15 to stop somewhere with no facilities parked closer than in a lay-by is not progress to me. The only good point is people using them leave more places for me to park elsewhere.

What some folks forget is the vast majority of motorhome users hardly ever use their vans and when they do they drive to a campsite where they stray. I have little in common with most of these people and would prefer to be with a bunch of social misfits somewhere sat around a fire enjoying life. Good job we are all different huh

If you wish to find out more about what changed in the Act Google Police Crime Sentencing and Court Act 2022. The relevant part is in section 4.
Challenges are currently being made and you can find more here: https://www.gypsy-traveller.org/new...d-in-high-court-over-discriminatory-pcsc-act/

Where can I join your club Nab ?

 

[Nabsim]

Where can I join your club Nab ?

lol. Get on the drove for spring equinox and I will introduce you to the tribe

Of course, there are a lot of folks on here I enjoy spending time with even if I haven’t done any meets for a year or so. Just no time for anything since retiring, doing nowt is hard work lol

 

[Caz]

The Caravan Club woke up one day and realised that 50% of their members used motorcaravans - motorhomes, campervans, whatever you like to call them. So some bright spark said "Oh, we'd better change our name and logo". So they became to Caravan and Motorhome Club.

However, they did absolutely nothing else to acknowledge their motorcaravanning members and they are still heavily biased towards tuggers.

They haven't even bothered to update their website, which is still caravanclub.co.uk

 

[Fisherman]

I can think of no other pastime, sport, or hobby, where one of the major organisations within said groups works against the interests it’s members.