Brake fade heeeeeeeeeeelp

[JQB]

I agree Trev. I remember coming down the Col de la Bonette which is the highest paved pass in Europe I think or one of them (Roof of Europe). Its never ending and about half way down we noticed a small village so stopped to have a look around. I had pretty much come down like you say using the gears and probably holding people up but even half way down when we got out some French bloke pointed at my rear wheels and there was smoke coming out of them. Gave it half an hour and carried on.

The worst thing was the old two stroke Peugeot Scooter which was an automatic with no real engine braking. If you over did it on that in the Alps or Pyrenees the front brake would fade quickly followed by the rear one. Then you were basically fubared.

We never have a Q or tailback, a positive spin is a "following"

 

[Thistle]

@andyjanet
What type of brake fade were you experiencing, pad or fluid?
Did you stop sufficiently long enough to allow the brakes to cool down properly?

If so whilst waiting did you attempt to identify if the brakes on all axles were equally overheating, if not was any one wheel significantly hotter than the others, that might point the finger at an individual calliper.

If for example the fronts were red hot and the rears cool then you may have a fault in the compensation valve if fitted

When the fluid and pads were changed were the callipers properly cleaned and the slide pins checked and greased to ensure minimal binding.

My experience with diagnosing brake fade if not a mechanical fault such as within the compensation valves etc has often identified inadequate basic maintenance as the root cause, typically seized slide pins leading to excess heat build up which can go unnoticed for ages until massively amplified when the brakes are needed most such as on long steep declines.

Rarely during so called dealer servicing are brakes properly checked for binding etc and obviously on a newish van that won’t get picked up until the first mot!

As an aside my previous Sprinter had a Telma Retarder and I really miss that fantastic extra safety feature on my current Crafter.

 

[andyjanet]

Pad fade , pedal was still hard, i practice cadence braking most of the time and have never had problems before , all wheels felt about the same temperature feeling the wheel not the disc , did that when i was young and silly on the whrynose pass in an allegro 1500 , this time i stopped pulled the handbrake on and got out to not show my distress to janet and realised the van was still moving , quickly lent in and pulled the steering wheel in towards the curb that stopped it

 

[trevskoda]

Pad fade , pedal was still hard, i practice cadence braking most of the time and have never had problems before , all wheels felt about the same temperature feeling the wheel not the disc , did that when i was young and silly on the whrynose pass in an allegro 1500 , this time i stopped pulled the handbrake on and got out to not show my distress to janet and realised the van was still moving , quickly lent in and pulled the steering wheel in towards the curb that stopped it

I dont know why they never fitted a secondery brake disk on the drive shaft,rwd> or shafts ,fwd> not connected to flued sys, thus it would not heat up.

 

[andyjanet]

We have hill decent! That works perfectly its just really slow at 15 moh when everybody including coaches are overtaking you,
Will contact fiat and see if this can be uprated to 20 mph

 

[yeoblade]

We have hill decent! That works perfectly its just really slow at 15 moh when everybody including coaches are overtaking you,
Will contact fiat and see if this can be uprated to 20 mph

how does HD slow the vehicle ?

 

[andyjanet]

It uses engine braking and abs sensors to dab brakes on and off below 15 mph

 

[oppy]

It all sounds very complicated, we came home from Wales early last year with just handbrake and gearbox and of course buttocks clenched too. Split brake hose !!

 

[TeamRienza]

Hill descent can be very efficient, but embarrassing!

Some years ago in a new van I had my first experience of hill descent. Coming down from the Col de Tourmalet, conscious of potential for brake fade, conscious of the huge drops on one side, and conscious of this 4 month old, very expensive Motorhome, the first (and only) brand new vehicle I owned in my 60 plus years, I engaged this marvel of motoring technology and began the looong descent.

The Tour de France was due to use the Col a few weeks later, so as we crept down the road, I was constantly being overtaken by cyclists who were flying down the hill like blurs of colour. I also had to keep watching for places to stop, simply to allow motor traffic to pass rather than encourage dangerous overtaking.

I soon decided to abandon my use of hill descent as I was becoming a menace and embarrassment to decent traffic flow.

As time has passed, I have developed a degree of trust in the vehicle in much the same way as you might trust a dog!. I do ensure that the vehicle has the best treatment I can offer regarding service, tyre condition, brake efficiency and every few years a change of brake fluid. Beyond that we depend on luck and good fortune.

Davy

 

[trevskoda]

It all sounds very complicated, we came home from Wales early last year with just handbrake and gearbox and of course buttocks clenched too. Split brake hose !!

You should carry a brake hose clamp, by the way one set still work as its a duel split sys from the master cyl, hence 2 pistons in it.
Happened to me outside derry city when one rear w cyl burst its seals, home on fronts only.

 

[oppy]

You should carry a brake hose clamp, by the way one set still work as its a duel split sys from the master cyl, hence 2 pistons in it.
Happened to me outside derry city when one rear w cyl burst its seals, home on fronts only.View attachment 139191View attachment 139192

We have enough junk in the 'van and if we stuck stuff in to cover every eventuality we'd have to get a bigger one and in a twenty odd year old 'van stuff happens, but having been driving for 60 and a bit years there are few things that create proper panic, plus we have a loo on board and miles of toilet paper !!

 

[barryd]

Hill descent can be very efficient, but embarrassing!

Some years ago in a new van I had my first experience of hill descent. Coming down from the Col de Tourmalet, conscious of potential for brake fade, conscious of the huge drops on one side, and conscious of this 4 month old, very expensive Motorhome, the first (and only) brand new vehicle I owned in my 60 plus years, I engaged this marvel of motoring technology and began the looong descent.

The Tour de France was due to use the Col a few weeks later, so as we crept down the road, I was constantly being overtaken by cyclists who were flying down the hill like blurs of colour. I also had to keep watching for places to stop, simply to allow motor traffic to pass rather than encourage dangerous overtaking.

I soon decided to abandon my use of hill descent as I was becoming a menace and embarrassment to decent traffic flow.

As time has passed, I have developed a degree of trust in the vehicle in much the same way as you might trust a dog!. I do ensure that the vehicle has the best treatment I can offer regarding service, tyre condition, brake efficiency and every few years a change of brake fluid. Beyond that we depend on luck and good fortune.

Davy

I think the cyclists and regular users of the Tourmalet and others are used to it and expect it. The cyclists absolutely fly down that hill but not up it! I remember coming down it on the scooter at quite a rate and some of them were flying.

 

[Tezza33]

by the way one set still work as its a duel split sys from the master cyl, hence 2 pistons in it.
Happened to me outside derry city when one rear w cyl burst its seals, home on fronts only.

Not all Ducatos have a dual split system, some only have one brake pipe, luckily for me mine has two, I limped home with no rear brakes and half of the fronts working once, not a nice experience

 

[oppy]

Back at the dawn of time when we were first married and Sue was still at uni, we had an ancient Beatle that we used to take a gang of us to Oulton Park race track at weekends to work as stewards for a few bob a day. Our last trip, well the old VW's had a brake pipe that ran through the inside of the car and on this occasion it managed to split (rusted through), these were the days before we had MoTs. So we drove home to Stockport with just a gearbox and hand brake which only worked on one wheel plus we were all a tad mellowed, 't'was fun. A lesson learned that was useful for our trip home from Wales.
Ps, Terry, us peasants too only have one, luv ya
Peter

 

[trevskoda]

Not all Ducatos have a dual split system, some only have one brake pipe, luckily for me mine has two, I limped home with no rear brakes and half of the fronts working once, not a nice experience

Its been a legal requirment for well over 40 years, last veh i had with single line was a imp in the early seventies.

 

[trevskoda]

Back at the dawn of time when we were first married and Sue was still at uni, we had an ancient Beatle that we used to take a gang of us to Oulton Park race track at weekends to work as stewards for a few bob a day. Our last trip, well the old VW's had a brake pipe that ran through the inside of the car and on this occasion it managed to split (rusted through), these were the days before we had MoTs. So we drove home to Stockport with just a gearbox and hand brake which only worked on one wheel plus we were all a tad mellowed, 't'was fun. A lesson learned that was useful for our trip home from Wales.
Ps, Terry, us peasants too only have one, luv ya
Peter

I had a 1303 which drank fuel handled like a drunken pig & clutch over heated along with brakes if given any stick, kept it 3 mths, pile of cr-p..