Basildon site action on 19 September

[John H]

Unfortunately, we have NOT had a Referendum, so the peoples on the very onset did not agree, hence, it being undemocratic.

Hi David

I agree with your point about the duplicity of political parties that promise something and then conveniently forget about it when elected but we DID have a referendum in the 1970s in which there was overwhelming support for the UK being part of Europe. As I said, views may have changed since then but in our constitution there is no compulsion on our government to hold another referendum (despite election promises) and, as I said in my reply to Polly, our democracy may be far from perfect but the original decison was made democratically and that means everything that stems from it is a democratic decision (even though we as individuals may think a lot of it stupid). And, despite the duplicity of the main Political Parties, people have had the clear option to vote UKIP at several elections and a relatively small number have done so, which means either the majority are happy with our membership or they don't see it as a major issue of concern.

 

[David & Ann]

Hi David

I agree with your point about the duplicity of political parties that promise something and then conveniently forget about it when elected but we DID have a referendum in the 1970s in which there was overwhelming support for the UK being part of Europe. As I said, views may have changed since then but in our constitution there is no compulsion on our government to hold another referendum (despite election promises) and, as I said in my reply to Polly, our democracy may be far from perfect but the original decison was made democratically and that means everything that stems from it is a democratic decision (even though we as individuals may think a lot of it stupid). And, despite the duplicity of the main Political Parties, people have had the clear option to vote UKIP at several elections and a relatively small number have done so, which means either the majority are happy with our membership or they don't see it as a major issue of concern.

I was unaware that in 1970 a Referendum was in place. As you well know I am from Germany so was not familiar of the situation. In that case i withdraw my last post as irrevalant and do agree totally to your original post. My apoligies.

 

[Pollik]

I heard it elsewhere as:democracy is the least worst form of government. I used to agree, but lately I am not nearly so sure. Perhaps this is a direct result of being more politically active in the last ten years. I don't have a better solution, which is not to say that a better system does not exist.

You are right about the referendum on the voting system, yes it was convincing and yes it was incomprehensible, in my view also.

I would like to believe that the internet has been and is such a wonderful information and communication provider and that the pedestal on which our betters sit is looking distinctly wobbly at the moment. The wall street protest, hardly mentioned in either the British or US media, has been going on for more than two weeks now. I am aware of it only because the internet enables me to access sources of information outside the control of 'them'. In the UK we have UK Uncut. We find that people like Julian Assange (Wikileaks) acquire hero status (for a while, anyway) after he suffers US governmental pressure on Banks to cut off his assets. He has still not been charged with anything (excepting the Swedish rape charge and that was failing last I heard), much less tried and convicted. By your argument, as I read it, this is OK because the US govt was elected.

I shan't be around, probably, but it would not surprised if some other form of government did not emerge over the next century. The alternative seems to be a descent into some kind of dystopian society, so beloved of SF writers...in which case I don't want to be around.

"One thing is abundently clear - the only sensible form of government is a dictatorship .................run by me! "

I have a rule about not voting for anyone who seeks power!! :ninja:


Polly

 

[David & Ann]

I will only vote if I feel that a paticular Party will do as it says. To date, that has not happened. Some may say, if you don't vote, then you have no grounds to put your point of view or object. That may be so, hence, I am neutral in my thinking.

 

[Pollik]

Some may say, if you don't vote, then you have no grounds to put your point of view or object.

I have always thought this was a silly thing to say. At the last election, as a euro sceptic, if I had wanted to vote for a party that would either move us out of EC or give us a referendum, then I was limited to a single minor party, whose other policies I was much less keen on.

It can be a real problem only having baskets of policies I can vote for. How much better would it be to vote on the policies themselves?



P

 

[John H]

I was unaware that in 1970 a Referendum was in place. As you well know I am from Germany so was not familiar of the situation. In that case i withdraw my last post as irrevalant and do agree totally to your original post. My apoligies.

No problem, David.

 

[John H]

I would like to believe that the internet has been and is such a wonderful information and communication provider and that the pedestal on which our betters sit is looking distinctly wobbly at the moment. The wall street protest, hardly mentioned in either the British or US media, has been going on for more than two weeks now. I am aware of it only because the internet enables me to access sources of information outside the control of 'them'. In the UK we have UK Uncut. We find that people like Julian Assange (Wikileaks) acquire hero status (for a while, anyway) after he suffers US governmental pressure on Banks to cut off his assets. He has still not been charged with anything (excepting the Swedish rape charge and that was failing last I heard), much less tried and convicted. By your argument, as I read it, this is OK because the US govt was elected.

"One thing is abundently clear - the only sensible form of government is a dictatorship .................run by me! "

I have a rule about not voting for anyone who seeks power!! :ninja:


Polly

I absolutely agree with you about the difficulty of getting balanced and reasonably objective information - I think it can only be even partly achieved by consulting as many different sources as possible. For example, if you watch the news on Al-Jazeera you get a very different picture of what is happening in the world from that of, for example, Sky or CNN. But if I gave the impression that anything is ok because the government was democratically elected then please allow me to correct that impression. When talking about democracy I was simply trying to describe how decisions are made - I wasn't saying I personally agreed with those decisions. I would only agree with all the decisions made if it was me making them - but I see I have a rival for the role of dictator! :have fun:

 

[maureenandtom]

Hello Polly,

I see you haven't started back on those pills yet. I'm so pleased.

Here's a rather nice research document for you to look at - it's a very pleasant read.

Fear: The Foundation of Every Government’s Power: Publications: The Independent Institute

After you've read that then there's another publication, rather older, which is also pleasant but more difficult. More difficult because it's older and it's translated into an older style english which is difficult for us. But it's an eye-opener and I've heard it's bedtime reading for our senior politicians or those who wish to become so.

Machiavelli: The Prince: Contents

 

[mustardseed]

Sorry CJ: I haven't seen this until now (there's nothing to notify you when someone replies to something you have posted on this site, so I'm struggling to find my way around it). It all sounds very complicated, and like it's causing you a shed (dismantled or not!) load of stress :-(
Has the ownersip of the Council houses transferred to a housing association by any chance? (they tend to change the rules, and have done in some quite silly ways round here, like people are not allowed to have nice well-maintained boats in their drives/ front gardens!) I'm still not very well and have a hospital appointment on Monday so am a bit like a cat on hot bricks until then, but will see if I can make sense of any of it and offer any suggestions after then.
A x

well its a big more complicated than that, its a council house. its a nightmare really, months ago my friends put me some paving slabs down, out in the sun with a plastic table and chairs, the council want that up too. the garden was a total jungle when i moved in, tons and tons of rubbish......

worst touble is, the rear access to the garden, i have used for 16 years since i moved in, which is a shared pathway to everyones rears, then suddenly out of the blue weeks ago, im not allowed to use it. i cant get anything in or out (i sold a shed prior to knowing this) and 2 weeks later the removal van turned up, and the scabby neighbours next door stabbed the 2 removal men. i not cant get anything in or out stright into the garden from the road/path where i have done for so long...wheelbarrowed stuff stright in and out. had about 15 mates over the past 18months help me with little jobs.

i was told i was ok to burn dog poo months ago (i did it late at night in a burner everyone week or 2), then told not too. i was ok to have a pond, no permsion, then suddenly i needed permission.

told the council i wont take anything down, as its same, and the nice little expesive brick path (that i got from freecycle) is ok, they want it up....told them i will turn it into a garden of mud and overgrown weeds if i do, like it was when i moved in.

the scabby neighbours next door other week cut lots of nice trees down (with birds nest, although i think had flown) council dont care, dumped rubbish, old tvs, plastic directly on the waste land that runs BEHIND MY end of the garden, they dont care.....

its the same neighbours that cause nothing but trouble, not just for me but for others, only me that stands upto them, hence brake fluid all over my car, keyed, campervan damaged and threatend and assualted......

been accused of having parties when i havent, just total lies.

trying to get a eviction order against me. i have told them for over a year, i need a better house, due to my disiablities, backed up by doc and housing etc. but they dont care.......

its things like this, and seeing those in basildon that make me feel suicidel at times

 

[Pollik]

I see you haven't started back on those pills yet. I'm so pleased.

I didn't like the side effects...I found they tended to make me rant incoherently.

Thanks for the links. As it happens, I have just finished reading a translation of Plato's 'Ion', so Machievelli will be a treat and I will put Nietzsche aside for a while.





Polly

 

[David & Ann]

YES SIR, you are correct (to a point) sometimes we cut ourselves down to size☺☺☺

 

[Harbourmaster]

I spent the whole Summer "travelling." I paid about £6 a night on proper campsites. I never felt the urge to leave a load of rubbish or scrap behind, or to annoy the locals.

So why can't others do the same, whatever their so-called ethnic origin?

And I really hate the term "settled community..."

 

[Guernsey Donkey]

[No message]

 

[John H]

Well it would be if it weren't for all these interjections from France!!

 

[David & Ann]

I think I will get my coat too. I may have misunderstood the first post, regarding garbage.....Garbage in Garbage and talking Garbage. I'm outta here, as the Americans say☺☺☺