Basildon site action on 19 September

Alaska Guy

Guest
I get email updates through my work about the imminent evictions at that site in Basildon, Essex. The local council have sent out alerts to all other councils and police authorities warning people to make sure that properties are adequately secured in case of a large scale dispersal of travellers.
I have posted this because this might cause forum members problems in the near future, as police, local councils and private landowners might get a bit twitchy over camper vans in their patch overnighting in what we would just see as responsible wild camp spots.

BBC News - Dale Farm travellers lose court bid to halt eviction

I would be curious to hear your views.
Alaska Guy
 
If they get the boot they will probably stay in Thames Estuary area as they have been there a while, but you never know. I guess they would largely stick together as a group so may seek larger areas of public grass like verges of highways or recreation grounds that we wouldn't normally consider as wild camping locations. Anyway, I hope the council will sort them out with something. They must have some plans for them, they can't just dump that number of people in the road outside the site - the travellers own the land and would simply migrate back in time.
 
Firefox said:
If they get the boot they will probably stay in Thames Estuary area as they have been there a while, but you never know. I guess they would largely stick together as a group so may seek larger areas of public grass like verges of highways or recreation grounds that we wouldn't normally consider as wild camping locations. Anyway, I hope the council will sort them out with something. They must have some plans for them, they can't just dump that number of people in the road outside the site - the travellers own the land and would simply migrate back in time.
Click to expand...

The local authority has a duty to house these residents. They have not met their duty to provide sufficient sites for travellers as it is, so they can only expect more problems by their actions.
 
local authority has a duty to re home .. biggest laugh i have heared yet . they may have a duty, but but wether or not they have a duty to carry that duty out is another thing .i say leave them alone ,its there land .the only reason they want to evict them is for planning infringements .we all know the trouble some of them can cause ,so isent it better to keep them all in one place insted of scattering them up and down the area .
 
Pobably depends where you liveas to what your views are. Some people need to try living next to this site and then see what they think.

Sooty
 
Sooty 10 said:
Pobably depends where you liveas to what your views are. Some people need to try living next to this site and then see what they think.

Sooty
Click to expand...

Hi Sooty

I have lived near a traveller site in County Durham since it was established in the 70s. There is no problem with the people on this site. It is not travellers that are the problem it is law breaking individuals that need to be dealt with no matter where they reside. I have suffered thefts in a former business from people who claimed to be travellers and lived on traveller sites.

Families of travellers have been a common feature of my upbringing and I remember having traveller children in my class at school. I worked in a benefit office and had travelling families often on the books. They moved around on a set pattern and we could deal with them as we did with any other claimant including having benefits delivered to their temporary site by post.

My GGrandfather used to overwinter travellers on his small farm as far back as the late 1800s when many families from Ireland came over to get work. Consett population in 1841 was 250, in 1851 it had grown to 2500, mostly Irish, including my own ancestors, to work in the new Iron Company. I was in the Consett benefit office when the Iron Company closed down

There is also a NIMBY culture that needs to be overcome. Not everyone who lives in a caravan it is villan.

Some of these families at Basildon are reported to have properties in Ireland, but prefere to spend most of their year in their caravan on the Dale Farm Site. These people are not homeless but are second home owners be it a Mobile Home. The true travellers will have moved on in their carvans to avoid trouble. It is the settled ones that are the problem and in my opinion should not be regarded as travellers although they claim to be eithic travellers.

The site is a former scrap yard yet it is refered to by opponents to the site as if it was a green field in the green belt. Part of it has PP and will remain, so what is the problem of extending PP to the rest of the site?

I have now chosen to live in a Motorhome and travel full time stopping on CLs, CSs or Aires. I am not a traveller, but prefere to not be tied to bricks and mortar myself.
 
I think they call themselfs travellers, so why are they there?. give them the big boot, when they learn how to live with the laws of the land and contribute to society, maybe they will get more help.
 
Sooty 10 said:
Pobably depends where you liveas to what your views are. Some people need to try living next to this site and then see what they think.

Sooty
Click to expand...

i am not sticking up for them as we all know a certain percentage of them may be less desireable to have live near you . but then again look at other members of the comunity that arnt model neighbours and arnt travelers . druggies .alcohol soaked teens . we lived near a shall we say gypsy site and to tell you the truth we dident have a great deal of trouble with them the od stolen car/or van ,but how many nick motors that arnt gypsies .unless the local drunks decided to teach them a lesson in there words big mistake
 
I suppose if you stop a moment and consider the diversity of the prison population and crimes for which the inmates have been convicted, there is a bad element in all walks of life.

MP,s expense scandal Stealing off all of us, dodgy businessmen accountants solicitors etc there cant be a dividing line in all of this.

' travellers' suffer the stigma of being tarred and labelled with the same brush that is ludicrous, its like saying all Black people are drug dealers or something, the difference is Of course if anyone were to say that there would be uproar the travelling community however dont enjoy the same sympathy.

Channa
 
The issue of travellers is a very complicated one that I dont think will ever be resolved.
As John says there have always been itinerant or migrant workers who have travelled with their families wherever the work was, they helped build our canal, motorway and road networks and settled in certain areas to work in heavy industries as they developed.
Whilst it is true that local authorities do have an obligation to provide sites for travellers it has not always been so this obligation was taken away in the 80s by the Thatcher government as part of their battle with 'alternative' lifestyles and 'new age travellers' Labour reintroduced it during their term in office and now the latest government plan to further victimise travellers by making trespass a criminal offence.
There are many smaller sites like this around the country where travellers have moved onto their own land without residential planning consent but councils are tied and have to grant temporary permission because there is no alternative to move them on to(because nobody built sites because there wasnt until recently that obligation on them).
We as a society try to force travellers to educate their children but as there are so few legal sites they can stay on the children never have a chance to settle into a classroom and there is so much bigotry about they often feel excluded by classmates anyway.

In my experience travellers who are welcomed into a community instead of treated with suspicion will rarely cause any trouble within that area, if they are provided with somewhere they can safely stay without harassment they are less likely to leave it in a mess because they may want to come back.

As I say a very complicated minefield of ignorance(on both sides), bigotry and cultures. I am not sure what can or should be done about the site in Basildon but there was a case near me a few years ago where an entire factory was built on green belt land without planning permission and local people were appalled that it should be forced to be knocked down if retrospective planning permission wasnt granted because it employed 300 people, I still cant see the difference between this and the many traveller sites around.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
They may well offer them "housing",but many of them are not used to living in bricks and mortar, they prefer the caravan or mobile home way of life.

As far as I can see in this case, the council will spend millions on evictions, but the people will just drift back to that site and the council will be faced with the same situation.
 
bmb1uk said:
I think they call themselfs travellers, so why are they there?. give them the big boot, when they learn how to live with the laws of the land and contribute to society, maybe they will get more help.
Click to expand...

A rather blanket statement. And partly my point re labelling people.

Interesting how you have a caveman with a club as an avatar, It certainly reflects your attitudes and prejudice perfectly so far.

When I am in the UK and not WORKING having paid my TAXES { to the uk regime ) abroad I too am officially classed as a gypsy according to the unemployment office. Even though on each occasion upon my return to the UK I have found paid work.

Apparently I am a gypsy officially because I have no fixed abode and choose to live in a motorhome.

Its all labelling and pigeon holeing people, In your world I have a job and live in bricks and mortar, I am perceived in one light, choose to live in a motorhome perceived in another.

I welcome the rationale behind the prejudice.

Channa


Naturally like any other member here needing help or advice, If I feel I can contribute I do, I do that as a human being with a common interest not as a gypsy or Gorga
 
Last edited by a moderator:
channa said:
A rather blanket statement. And partly my point re labelling people.

Interesting how you have a caveman with a club as an avatar, It certainly reflects your attitudes and prejudice perfectly so far.

When I am in the UK and not WORKING having paid my TAXES { to the uk regime ) abroad I too am officially classed as a gypsy according to the unemployment office. Even though on each occasion upon my return to the UK I have found paid work.

Apparently I am a gypsy officially because I have no fixed abode and choose to live in a motorhome.

Its all labelling and pigeon holeing people, In your world I have a job and live in bricks and mortar, I am perceived in one light, choose to live in a motorhome perceived in another.

I welcome the rationale behind the prejudice.

Channa


Naturally like any other member here needing help or advice, If I feel I can contribute I do, I do that as a human being with a common interest not as a gypsy or Gorga
Click to expand...

i can sort of understand where he is coming from, they are breaking the law.

i know some, none of them drive legally, they steal etc, and i wouldnt trust them as far as i can throw them.

just look at the litter and mess they make, plus you always see them on cop shows in illigal transits etc breaking the law. plus if they are travellers, being in one places for 10 years sort of proves they are not.................
 
cooljules said:
i can sort of understand where he is coming from, they are breaking the law.

i know some, none of them drive legally, they steal etc, and i wouldnt trust them as far as i can throw them.

just look at the litter and mess they make, plus you always see them on cop shows in illigal transits etc breaking the law. plus if they are travellers, being in one places for 10 years sort of proves they are not.................
Click to expand...

You Talk about 'they' a lot, I think you mean 'some of them' as for trusting them I dont think you would get close enough to throw any of them. I know a lot of council house residents that drive illegally and steal too and lets not start on MPs. How many estates do you see with abandoned mattresses, shopping trolleys,etc. How many gangs of teens do you see getting drunk and leaving piles of cans in the park?
 
just jane said:
You Talk about 'they' a lot, I think you mean 'some of them' as for trusting them I dont think you would get close enough to throw any of them. I know a lot of council house residents that drive illegally and steal too and lets not start on MPs. How many estates do you see with abandoned mattresses, shopping trolleys,etc. How many gangs of teens do you see getting drunk and leaving piles of cans in the park?
Click to expand...

i live in the middle of a rough council estate, litter, crime, joyriders daily etc. but most of the people are decent and hard working. now when it comes to all the travellers i have met, its the otehr way around, with the majority being the criminals. they dont do themselves any favours.
 
cooljules said:
they dont do themselves any favours.
Click to expand...

A bit like wildcampers then ? You know leave their ****e wherever, assume they have a 'right' to overnight where they want with no regard to the land owners wishes ?

Preferring to cite ill thought out legislation as an excuse rather than excercise common sense and broker a happy medium ?

Frickin eck we sound like gypsies

Channa
 
cooljules said:
i live in the middle of a rough council estate, litter, crime, joyriders daily etc. but most of the people are decent and hard working. now when it comes to all the travellers i have met, its the otehr way around, with the majority being the criminals. they dont do themselves any favours.
Click to expand...

Then your experience is limited
 
channa said:
A bit like wildcampers then ? You know leave their ****e wherever, assume they have a 'right' to overnight where they want with no regard to the land owners wishes ?

Preferring to cite ill thought out legislation as an excuse rather than excercise common sense and broker a happy medium ?

Frickin eck we sound like gypsies

Channa
Click to expand...

no not at all...........i havent left any litter etc when i have been. once im gone no one would have known i was ever there. i dont chuck my litter in bushes etc. i would love to spend a year or 2 travelling in my camper, i enjoy waking up somewhere new and fresh air...but wouldnt want anyone to think i was a traveller.
 
cooljules said:
no not at all...........i havent left any litter etc when i have been. once im gone no one would have known i was ever there. i dont chuck my litter in bushes etc. i would love to spend a year or 2 travelling in my camper, i enjoy waking up somewhere new and fresh air...but wouldnt want anyone to think i was a traveller.
Click to expand...

Good for you but in your response you conveniently forgot to give your opinion on landowners wishes? sadly a consideration in respect of wild camping perhaps ? and a a significant part of my question.

So if you dont want anyone to think you are a traveller, hows about incoherent scumbag from Council estate in Sheffield ?

Thats a label, Welcome to the world of labels If you are offended 'tough' ...........

Welcome to my world not nice is it ? BTW I dont think for a moment you are a scumbag just trying to show how easy it is to label peeps inappropriately

Channa
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Back
Top