Are councils finally getting it?

If campsite owners had one ounce of sense they could be letting in and charging a small fee of about £5 to let folk empty cassettes and refill water tanks, I for one don't require a happy holiday all sing and dance site, I go away to get away from the madding crowd of ice cream and lolly sucking morons.
 
There was a similar shared post on the "NC500 the land weeps" Facebook group yesterday from a campsite up there concerned about losing business to Aires, car parks etc. You have to be a member to see it I think but this was the original from the site itself.

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As said above. Everything has changed. Even if you wanted to get on a site in peak season (I dont) then often they are full.

I keep saying this but its high time the rules were relaxed so farmers etc can just set up their own fields and put twenty or thirty vans on like they do in many parts of Europe. First come first served, no booking required.
 
As I have stated before there will be resistance to aires by some, hence why I am not shocked at reading this.
Quite frankly if I looked at the land weeps Facebook forum, my blood pressure would go off the scale.
The arrogance of these people is only matched by their naive stupidity.
We did not create the NC500, but we seemed to be blamed for most of what's wrong with it.
I would be shocked if the campsite owners were not either involved, or welcomed its inception.
Also we make up only a small proportion of those travelling the NC500, the majority do so in cars.
And apparently when we are in carparks built and maintained with our taxes we are not in campsites, so give us your road tax, fuel duty, Vat, but don't use what you have paid for, because the campsite owners who's sites are full don’t like us not using their campsites.
But many of those in cars stay in hotels, and B&Bs, spend more on food etc, so they are more welcome.
Its a case of give us your money, but you are not welcome.
These are the same people who will quote anecdotal evidence of toilet waste being dumped,
whilst resisting the installation of chemical waste points, and aires.
As for campsite owners they refuse to offer their facilities for a set fee, even though they are fully booked weeks in advance.
Its as if some folk are never happy unless they have something to complain about,
hence their resistance to measures that would go a long way to alleviating the very issues they love to complain about.
And think on this one, I would be shocked if none on that forum where not involved in local politics.
 
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Fisherman said:
As I have stated before there will be resistance to aires by some, hence why I am not shocked at reading this.
Quite frankly if I looked at the land weeps Facebook forum, my blood pressure would go off the scale.
The arrogance of these people is only matched by their naive stupidity.
We did not create the NC500, but we seemed to be blamed for most of what's wrong with it.
I would be shocked if the campsite owners were not either involved, or welcomed its inception.
Also we make up only a small proportion of those travelling the NC500, the majority do so in cars.
And apparently when we are in carparks built and maintained with our taxes we are not in campsites, so give us your road tax, fuel duty, Vat, but don't use what you have paid for, because the campsite owners who's sites are full don’t like us not using their campsites.
But many of those in cars stay in hotels, and B&Bs, spend more on food etc, so they are more welcome.
Its a case of give us your money, but you are not welcome.
These are the same people who will quote anecdotal evidence of toilet waste being dumped,
whilst resisting the installation of chemical waste points, and aires.
As for campsite owners they refuse to offer their facilities for a set fee, even though they are fully booked weeks in advance.
Its as if some folk are never happy unless they have something to complain about,
hence their resistance to measures that would go a long way to alleviating the very issues they love to complain about.
And think on this one, I would be shocked if none on that forum where not involved in local politics.
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I joined that depressing group just to try and put forward as diplomatically as possible our point of view and add a bit of balance but I hardly post there now. The internet and social media seldom tells you much about the poster but ill bet that a fair chunk of the complainers in that group are retired wealthy folk from England. Just a hunch. It would be interesting to hear from any of our members who have done bits of the NC500 this year to try and establish if its really been as bad as that group claims.

From what I Can tell from the attitude of many of them is they just think there are too many tourists and they dont want them. I do wonder though if this group is not truly representative of the majority of the community.
 
barryd said:
There was a similar shared post on the "NC500 the land weeps" Facebook group yesterday from a campsite up there concerned about losing business to Aires, car parks etc. You have to be a member to see it I think but this was the original from the site itself.

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As said above. Everything has changed. Even if you wanted to get on a site in peak season (I dont) then often they are full.

I keep saying this but its high time the rules were relaxed so farmers etc can just set up their own fields and put twenty or thirty vans on like they do in many parts of Europe. First come first served, no booking required.
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The proprietors of Dornoch are moaning that someone wants to create an aire in the car park 200 yards from their boundary. However, that car park is only big enough for perhaps 5 motorhomes and so hardly stands to rob them of custom. For that, Dornoch offer a 'pump and dump' service for £11 and so the aire only needs to be a car park with a sign directing people to the caravan park for waste and water facilities. An aire might actually benefit them by directing motorhomers to their service point.
 
barryd said:
I joined that depressing group just to try and put forward as diplomatically as possible our point of view and add a bit of balance but I hardly post there now. The internet and social media seldom tells you much about the poster but ill bet that a fair chunk of the complainers in that group are retired wealthy folk from England. Just a hunch. It would be interesting to hear from any of our members who have done bits of the NC500 this year to try and establish if its really been as bad as that group claims.

From what I Can tell from the attitude of many of them is they just think there are too many tourists and they dont want them. I do wonder though if this group is not truly representative of the majority of the community.
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Sadly some people don't know how to debate or discuss with folk they don't agree with.
And Social media has created platforms full of narrow minded people with their own agendas.
All they want to do is make their point without taking into consideration that the world does not revolve around them.
I actually prefer discussion with folk who don't agree with myself, that way I may just learn something. (And I have done so)
I get on with many on here who I don't agree with, but I have nothing but respect for.

Yes of course I have some sympathy for people living on the NC500 route.
Many of them will have seen massive changes from the past prior to this route being formed.
But the NC500 cannot be uninvented, its here to stay, and measures need to be taken to alleviate as much as possible
the concerns of local people, whilst providing us and others with the facilities that we need.
And thats the reality of the situation.
People who seek to prevent such measures from taking place, are the largest problem we have up there.
When you read such idiocies from one of their MPs talking about charging us alone for driving on their roads, its cringeworthy.
What's needed are people with intelligence and foresight to mitigate what we and others create up there, not folk who have lost reality.
Or even worse an MP who is only seeking to harvest public support for his own ends.
Also we are not the main problem up there, this biased reporting has to stop.
 
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GeoffL said:
The proprietors of Dornoch are moaning that someone wants to create an aire in the car park 200 yards from their boundary. However, that car park is only big enough for perhaps 5 motorhomes and so hardly stands to rob them of custom. For that, Dornoch offer a 'pump and dump' service for £11 and so the aire only needs to be a car park with a sign directing people to the caravan park for waste and water facilities. An aire might actually benefit them by directing motorhomers to their service point.
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Wouldn't benefit them by my trade at 11 quid a pop....
 
While I agree that £11 is too much, it's only £1 more than I'd be content to pay. Anyway, noting that they'd turned off comments for hoi polloi like me, I sent the following by email:

Good Morning,

It is with some dismay that I read about your petition against motorhome aires to serve the NC500. To me, this seems exceedingly shortsighted of you for the following reasons:
  1. Campsites and aires serve very different sorts of tourists. Those who want to principally use aires usually dislike formal campsites (aka "tin tent ghettos").
  2. Many motorhomers who use aires are pensioners on extended tours of over a month and even at £27 a night (with EHU), campsite fees are unaffordable. So what happens is that motorhomers (including me) are effectively driven away from an area only serviced by campsites. For example, my MO is typically to stop over at a campsite every three or four nights just to dispose of black and grey waste and refill my fresh water tanks -- but without aires or the opportunity to wild camp between those stops, I'm never going to use your campsite. IOW, your shortsightedness could actually reduce your potential business.
  3. In the same vein, I note that you offer a 'pump and dump' service and so could legitimately object to the inclusion of a service point within the aire proposed close to your boundary. However, were that aire to include a sign directing users to your service point, that aire would almost certainly increase rather than reduce your business -- even when every one of your pitches is occupied.
  4. Looking at Google Maps, that car park probably isn't even big enough for five motorhome spaces and so isn't going to present real competition for you; certainly not sufficiently to offset the potential it has to increase your business in the ways mentioned above.
I sincerely hope that you'll think again about the stance you've taken on this matter. That said, it'll only affect me if you do change your mind because I don't go where I'm not welcomed and, currently, Dornoch definitely falls into that category.

Best regards,
 
GeoffL said:
The proprietors of Dornoch are moaning that someone wants to create an aire in the car park 200 yards from their boundary. However, that car park is only big enough for perhaps 5 motorhomes and so hardly stands to rob them of custom. For that, Dornoch offer a 'pump and dump' service for £11 and so the aire only needs to be a car park with a sign directing people to the caravan park for waste and water facilities. An aire might actually benefit them by directing motorhomers to their service point.
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£11!!! They moan about people emptying grey water on the roads or worse and "stealing" water from cemetery's etc and have the cheek to charge £11 for a single empty and fill. I paid less than that for a pitch on a CL with electric near the Mull of Galloway in September.

It makes no sense at all. Nobody is going to pay that unless they are really desperate. A fiver maybe but even that is pushing it IMO but I suspect they would get a steady flow of vans and at least some income from the Aire and passing motorhomes. Maybe they are thinking if we make it that expensive people will just say we may as well pay £27 and stay on the site. Personally I wouldnt do either and "jog on" :D
 
GeoffL said:
While I agree that £11 is too much, it's only £1 more than I'd be content to pay. Anyway, noting that they'd turned off comments for hoi polloi like me, I sent the following by email:

Good Morning,

It is with some dismay that I read about your petition against motorhome aires to serve the NC500. To me, this seems exceedingly shortsighted of you for the following reasons:
  1. Campsites and aires serve very different sorts of tourists. Those who want to principally use aires usually dislike formal campsites (aka "tin tent ghettos").
  2. Many motorhomers who use aires are pensioners on extended tours of over a month and even at £27 a night (with EHU), campsite fees are unaffordable. So what happens is that motorhomers (including me) are effectively driven away from an area only serviced by campsites. For example, my MO is typically to stop over at a campsite every three or four nights just to dispose of black and grey waste and refill my fresh water tanks -- but without aires or the opportunity to wild camp between those stops, I'm never going to use your campsite. IOW, your shortsightedness could actually reduce your potential business.
  3. In the same vein, I note that you offer a 'pump and dump' service and so could legitimately object to the inclusion of a service point within the aire proposed close to your boundary. However, were that aire to include a sign directing users to your service point, that aire would almost certainly increase rather than reduce your business -- even when every one of your pitches is occupied.
  4. Looking at Google Maps, that car park probably isn't even big enough for five motorhome spaces and so isn't going to present real competition for you; certainly not sufficiently to offset the potential it has to increase your business in the ways mentioned above.
I sincerely hope that you'll think again about the stance you've taken on this matter. That said, it'll only affect me if you do change your mind because I don't go where I'm not welcomed and, currently, Dornoch definitely falls into that category.

Best regards,
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Good post Geoff but £10 to empty your toilet is sheer robbery.
The CCC offer three hours on some of their sites to members where you can also shower for around £7.
 
Fisherman said:
Good post Geoff but £10 to empty your toilet is sheer robbery.
The CCC offer three hours on some of their sites to members where you can also shower for around £7.
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FWIW, I didn't say that £10 wasn't excessive -- just that it was the maximum I'd be content to pay (i.e. more than that and I'm probably looking for a public WC or moving out of the area). That said, baby steps -- we've first got to convince these people that aires can actually increase their business by making their region more attractive and hence they are more likely to benefit from "service stopovers" -- and particularly so if they offer a non-residential service point.

MrSoapsud said:
Latest article on this in the "local" press: https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/new-aires-approved-gwynedd-tackle-22116266
Martin
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With regret, I notice the continued assumption that motorhomes are a 'problem' :(
 
MrSoapsud said:
Latest article on this in the "local" press: https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/new-aires-approved-gwynedd-tackle-22116266
Martin
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It seems that the penny has dropped, but I don’t see myself as a problem. I am a 66 year old man who after working for 50 years, paying all of my taxes and still paying taxes decided to buy a Motorhome where I paid even more taxes in buying and maintaining my Motorhome. I thought criminals, terrorists, anti social louts were problems, not hard working folks in the winter of their lives wanting to enjoy what time they have left to the max.
 
MrSoapsud said:
Latest article on this in the "local" press: https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/new-aires-approved-gwynedd-tackle-22116266 Martin
Click to expand...
MrSoapsud said:
Latest article on this in the "local" press: https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/new-aires-approved-gwynedd-tackle-22116266 Martin
Click to expand...
MrSoapsud said:
Latest article on this in the "local" press: https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/new-aires-approved-gwynedd-tackle-22116266 Martin
Click to expand...

MrSoapsud said:
Latest article on this in the "local" press: https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/new-aires-approved-gwynedd-tackle-22116266
Martin
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Where do they get this pervasive idea that motorhomes spend nothing when visiting an area? Drives me nuts.
 
Taking a couple of statements from the article says it all for me;

"Cllr Gareth Thomas, who holds the economic development brief, said that the aim was to divert motorhome owners away from road verges and secluded beauty spots"

and;

Cllr Dafydd Meurig added it was vital that motorhome owners were welcomed to Gwynedd “on our own terms,” and would give the authority “more scope to divert them away from where they shouldn’t be.”

and;

“It's clear that their needs are basic compared to what a caravan site offers, but its clear that we need a solution as well as stricter enforcement in the long term.”

Pretty much confirms my worst fears about the agenda here!
 
Debroos said:
Where do they get this pervasive idea that motorhomes spend nothing when visiting an area? Drives me nuts.
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Are you certain of your facts?

If you read the replies by posters on here then we do spend money while away in our vans. It is worth remembering that the regular posters on this forum are just a tiny minority of the membership. The vast majority do not post and so we have no idea of their habits. There are even non members who lurk on here and glean useful information free of charge.

Then there are the van owners who never go near forums, have no worries about where they park up and behave badly. That is why nearly all coastal areas have restrictions and/or height barriers. We have all read the horror stories about lines of motorhomes on Promenades and the owners behaving badly.

I have seen enough bad and thoughtless behaviour to believe that it is not a tiny minority, it is bigger than that. Strangely enough the 'spend nowt' brigade often do have the newest and biggest motorhomes. I have spoken to enough of both types to see that they seem to think they are doing nothing wrong. It seems to be the way of the world these days where nobody considers their actions or the results of such actions. It used to make me angry but I now accept that it is not intentional bad manners, it is done unconciously, a common trend in all walks of life these days.
 
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