Another battery thread

oppy said:
We have 3 proper batteries that do everything that we need connected to a 120 solar panel and the 3 of them probably cost less than one of these new fangled ones !!
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The latest prices for Lithium batteries have them at the same price ,or less, per usable Ah, than LA/AGM. Add in a much greater expected lifespan, and if the vans a keeper it makes a lot of sense changing to Lithium.
 
colinm said:
The latest prices for Lithium batteries have them at the same price ,or less, per usable Ah, than LA/AGM. Add in a much greater expected lifespan, and if the vans a keeper it makes a lot of sense changing to Lithium.
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Van isn't a keeper though...plan for one more year only. 😔
 
REC said:
Anyone had dealings with the battery store...have found a couple of batteries which would fit.,.one lithium also and seems reasonable prices...which worries me! https://batterystore.co.uk/uplus-12...lfp12100-deep-cycle-for-solar-rv-marine-more/
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It's not unusual to see 100ah lithium at £150-£200 so nothing to be suspicious about. You would really need to buy and install a B2B with lithium though as I mentioned before so you need to consider the additional outlay going into a van that you don't intend to keep.
Would you get an extra couple of hundred quid or so if the van had a lithium battery and B2,B already installed?
If no then just buy the largest AGM you can get in and hammer it hard this season without considering how far you're discharging it and pass the lithium or not dilemma onto the new owner.
IF you think you could get the additional costs back (I doubt it but I'm not sales ex spurt) then maybe go for it.
 
merl said:
It's not unusual to see 100ah lithium at £150-£200 so nothing to be suspicious about. You would really need to buy and install a B2B with lithium though as I mentioned before so you need to consider the additional outlay going into a van that you don't intend to keep.
Would you get an extra couple of hundred quid or so if the van had a lithium battery and B2,B already installed?
If no then just buy the largest AGM you can get in and hammer it hard this season without considering how far you're discharging it and pass the lithium or not dilemma onto the new owner.
IF you think you could get the additional costs back (I doubt it but I'm not sales ex spurt) then maybe go for it.
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Would REC not also need a change of 240v charger as well with a lithium profile. I think he said it was a 2018 van so maybe it already has one. Not sure about the MPPT controller.
 
barryd said:
Would REC not also need a change of 240v charger as well with a lithium profile. I think he said it was a 2018 van so maybe it already has one. Not sure about the MPPT controller.
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Not necessarily, I know of someone who initially installed a 100Ah Lithium in a older van with no extra equipment, I think they used Gel settings on charger, after a year of use they installed a B2B and added a specific Lithium charger to get the most out of set up. Although I think he said the maximum charge rate of battery was 50a, never seen one with that, so might have been a BMS that is user adjustable?
 
colinm said:
Not necessarily, I know of someone who initially installed a 100Ah Lithium in a older van with no extra equipment, I think they used Gel settings on charger, after a year of use they installed a B2B and added a specific Lithium charger to get the most out of set up. Although I think he said the maximum charge rate of battery was 50a, never seen one with that, so might have been a BMS that is user adjustable?
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Yep. I know there are accounts of people doing that or just dropping them in and fudging settings but for me personally having spent a year reading up on it, watching various videos from the likes of Victron and Off Grid solutions who of course want to sell you all their products it seemed like a risk not worth taking to me to cut corners and especially if its (in my case) a field where I am not an expert and are counting on the advice of others.

Too many variables involved for something to go wrong. Either do the job properly with all the right kit or don't do it at all. Its how I've worked in IT for decades and this is kind of the same thing IMO.
 
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Thanks all...spoke briefly to the man that did our conversion ( now living off grid in Ireland) ....he agrees b2b and as you say, not worth messing around with if planning to sell. . Apparently the mppt has a lithium switch so wouldn't be an issue with that..but not an issue if we get an ordinary leisure battery. Found one which looks like it will fit

batterystore.co.uk

UPLUS LDC12-105-G27-T 12V 105Ah Deep Cycle AGM Hybrid Gel Battery

Discover the UPLUS 12V 105Ah Deep Cycle Leisure Battery (LDC12-105), a maintenance-free, rechargeable SLA AGM hybrid gel battery designed for optimal performance in solar, RV, backup, trolling motor, marine, and off-grid systems. With advanced valve-regulated technology, this battery offers a...
batterystore.co.uk batterystore.co.uk

Not much more than 90ah but can be discharged more (if I read it right!)
The charger is a numax...this one I think...will I have to get that changed or will it be ok for the above battery?
1745756840827.jpeg
 
REC said:
Thanks all...spoke briefly to the man that did our conversion ( now living off grid in Ireland) ....he agrees b2b and as you say, not worth messing around with if planning to sell. . Apparently the mppt has a lithium switch so wouldn't be an issue with that..but not an issue if we get an ordinary leisure battery. Found one which looks like it will fit

batterystore.co.uk

UPLUS LDC12-105-G27-T 12V 105Ah Deep Cycle AGM Hybrid Gel Battery

Discover the UPLUS 12V 105Ah Deep Cycle Leisure Battery (LDC12-105), a maintenance-free, rechargeable SLA AGM hybrid gel battery designed for optimal performance in solar, RV, backup, trolling motor, marine, and off-grid systems. With advanced valve-regulated technology, this battery offers a...
batterystore.co.uk batterystore.co.uk

Not much more than 90ah but can be discharged more (if I read it right!)
The charger is a numax...this one I think...will I have to get that changed or will it be ok for the above battery?
View attachment 142089
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I asked ChatGTP for you. :D Obviously this is AI but so far I have found it spot on.

"will a numax battery charger model 12100 charge an AGM leisure battery properly. I know some standard 240v chargers will not charge an AGM battery to its full capacity so want to know if this one will"

ChatGPT said:​

Good question — you're right to check carefully because AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat) batteries do need a proper charging profile to reach full charge without damaging them.
The Numax 12100 is actually a smart charger (also branded sometimes as a Numax 12A 12V charger/maintainer), and it's designed for both standard lead-acid and AGM batteries. It provides a multi-stage charging process, including:
  • Bulk charge
  • Absorption
  • Float/maintenance mode
Importantly:
The Numax 12100 will charge an AGM battery properly because it can reach the slightly higher voltage that AGM batteries need during the absorption phase (around 14.4–14.7V depending on the exact battery spec), and then it drops to a safe float voltage (~13.6V), preventing overcharge.

A few things to double-check:​

  • Make sure the battery size (Ah rating) is appropriate for the charger's 12A output. For example, if your AGM leisure battery is something like 70–120Ah, the 12100 is a good fit.
  • Confirm that your specific AGM battery doesn't require a specialized “AGM+” setting (some newer AGM types want even slightly different profiles, but this is rare unless it's a very high-end battery).
Summary:
✅ The Numax 12100 will safely and properly charge a typical AGM leisure battery.
✅ It won't undercharge it like some old-fashioned basic chargers would.
 
When I first fitted my lifepo4 I used gel setting on my mains charger, changed y solar controller to lithium and had the factory fitted split charge relay. Ran like that for over a year, if I was on eau I would turn off mans charger if it got to float.

Batteries are 6 year old now and still perform as the day I got them.

People confuse what you can do with what is ideal a lot I think.

If I was looking today I would just get the cheap eco-worthy batteries. Everyone has to make up their own minds though, its their cash
 
REC said:
Ordering the

Only good if they have the size though...tried them first :confused:
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remember that you have the potential of laying a battery on its side quite possibly?
If you are looking at battery sizes and eliminating any that are overheight, you will get a very small choice.
As an example, VW Transporter batteries to fit under a cab seat meant you were limited to around 100Ah - but if fitting on their side, you could get upto 160Ah ones to go in - and the Transporter bases were very small compared a fiat ducato type seat. base.

As an aside, I fitted a B2B to a Ducato and the owner had a pair of lead acid 100Ah batteries under the drivers seat. It was a very tight squeeze and they had to be low-height ones as they are next to each other but it was done.

I can't recall what batteries they were in that ducato but I used to fit the Leoch XR1750 Battery under the Transporter Cab seats - https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-xtreme-110ah-agm-leisure-battery-xr1750/ . These are good batteries, but maybe a bit dated and pricey compared to newer options, but in terms of low height batteries, they are a decent option.
 
To OP, what is the make of your van? If it's a Ducato then the 190 high one David shows should be a good height, and the length would normally be OK as well, the ones you are linking to are a bit tall and would be best on side if they can be.
 
wildebus said:
remember that you have the potential of laying a battery on its side quite possibly?
If you are looking at battery sizes and eliminating any that are overheight, you will get a very small choice.
As an example, VW Transporter batteries to fit under a cab seat meant you were limited to around 100Ah - but if fitting on their side, you could get upto 160Ah ones to go in - and the Transporter bases were very small compared a fiat ducato type seat. base.

As an aside, I fitted a B2B to a Ducato and the owner had a pair of lead acid 100Ah batteries under the drivers seat. It was a very tight squeeze and they had to be low-height ones as they are next to each other but it was done.

I can't recall what batteries they were in that ducato but I used to fit the Leoch XR1750 Battery under the Transporter Cab seats - https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-xtreme-110ah-agm-leisure-battery-xr1750/ . These are good batteries, but maybe a bit dated and pricey compared to newer options, but in terms of low height batteries, they are a decent option.
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Hi, the problem was not just the height but the width which was 320 max. Have ordered a 105ah gel/AGM hybrid UPLUS which are made by Leoch which fits well. I did look at the Leoch ones but decided the hybrid was worth a try as it is supposed to have a longer life. Looked at putting it on its side but the leads then became an issue for us. We shall see how it works out when we next go away!
Thanks for your input..
 
REC said:
Hi, the problem was not just the height but the width which was 320 max. Have ordered a 105ah gel/AGM hybrid UPLUS which are made by Leoch which fits well. I did look at the Leoch ones but decided the hybrid was worth a try as it is supposed to have a longer life. Looked at putting it on its side but the leads then became an issue for us. We shall see how it works out when we next go away!
Thanks for your input..
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By width, I am assuming you mean length (in terms of battery size) :) the 'typical' 100Ah size battery is 170mm wide and 330mm long (which is a G19/Group 19 size), so that is 10mm longer than your maximum.
Not familiar with that battery you have ordered. sounds interesting.
 
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Out of curiosity I decided to see what I can stuff under a Ducato seat :)
Now a few notes first ...
1) Not making any connections to the battery - that can impact what will fit (last week I had to rout out woodwork under a seat to make room for the battery bolts and cables as it sat around 6mm too tall, for example)
2) There is nothing under the seat that is causing any obstructions (apart from note 3) so I could slide the batteries physically in and out
3) My 'testbed' is an Autotrail Motorhome - this has a raised floor directly behind the rear of the seat base and is a physical stop to how far the battery can go back - a PVC will have more flexibility I believe - and this can be important and even critical.
4) Batteries tried are not recommended in any way - Just using them for their physical size.

First I tried a Leoch Adventurer AGM - this is a 120AH (C100)/97AH (C20) battery and being AGM can be laid on its side.
It is just 300mm long but is 220mm tall. Too tall to sit upright, but on its side it will slide in long-ways into the seatbase
54486677878_1b271c4fa5_c.jpg

There is plenty of space in front. In fact, I could slide another one in front of it and only be around 1" shy of being able to close the front base cover
54486751610_a012806c77_c.jpg
I think if I tried this on a Ducato PVC, the rear battery would have gone back further and I could have closed that cover. The way the front and rear covers are shaped on Ducatos, I also reckon cabling would not be an issue - rear battery with terminals to rear; front battery with terminals to front.
The Batteries.
54486598724_5316f27908_c.jpg

I then tried a basic Lead Acid battery - an 'Enforcer Leisure'. This is a typical low-cost battery fitted in campers and motorhomes, got a vent tube so probably a wet battery and not one you would put on its side!
It is labelled as a E110-LOW - so a 110AH (at C100 I would think) and low height. Taking measurements, it is 180mm tall, 175mm wide and is 350mm long - so it is 20mm longer than the typical G19 battery.
This is too long to fit across the width of the seat base, but is low enough to clear the seat base top and also the 350mm length is no obstable to it going in lengthways, even on the Autotrail with raised floor.
54486398446_bf557a6216_c.jpg

Looks to me like as long as the battery has dimensions of no more than 300mm x 360mm x 180mm, it will fit in the - empty - seat base of a Ducato
 
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