Another anti camper council?

PSPO.s may be used legitimately but equally it is a piece of legislation open to abuse where the affected can do very little.

Hopefully a "Gina Miller" type person takes one to court so sensibility might show its colors

Channa
 
Services Directorate
Dr. Anthony Leonard - Executive Director of Business Operations

This is headed by an Executive Director and comprises the following service areas:

Strategy and Planning
Environmental Services and Licensing
Community and Economy
 
Les Haro said:
Just exchanged messages with a resident of the area.
She didn't have a problem with the guy living on the front or people sleeping on the beach, obviously some residents do have a problem with this.
Click to expand...

No, they don't. Councils always say they do. But they don't, Here are the total number of complaints in Rother over the past three years.

Complaints_over_Three_Years.jpg


This justifies a Public Spaces Protection Order? You think if a Ford Escort abandoned the council would have banned Ford Escorts? No ... make it into a complaint about motorhomes.

channa said:
I agree, I think we will see more and more PSPO.s used. It certainly seems local authorities are abusing democratic process and consultation 1984 springs to mind

Channa
Click to expand...

I think you're right.

Beware the Public Spaces Protection Order

I've been without a van for over half a year now and I'm beginning to believe that I'll not have a van ever again; though it's badly missed. Until it was stolen I'd had vans since 1990. I think the Golden Age is over.

Tezza said:
I don’t have a problem with them. If somebody doesn’t want me to park then I won’t. I will go elsewhere to sleep. For example you can’t sleep in your van in Weymouth ‘s free overnight car parks . But you go to the outskirts and park up at the side of the road then nothing the council can do . Most towns have a industrial estate , or out of town shopping sites. And people rant about lorries , you never see them in town car parks do you?
Click to expand...

And this is why will run out of elsewhere to sleep. We're all too frghtened of this, mostly, mythical person who doesn't want us to park. We will always lose spaces - because we never fight back and, if some of us do, then we won't support them.

I have no idea how to beat a PSPO. We need a Gina Millar on the job (thanks Channa).
 
How is it enforced? I seem to remember something about it not having to go to court. Is it an instant fine? presumably there must be some form of appeal...
 
Your understanding is pretty spot on....there doesn't seem to be any requirement to give notice the onus is upon you ...PSPO will become one of the most ill app ropriated pieces of legislation ever ...a very real problem to motorhoming unlike TROS and bylaws which need to be quoted I cant find evidence of a PSPO in place where street furniture need to advise of the fact ....The issue really is for years public authorities have intimidated with illegal signage (highlands Scotland )
We aren't playing on a level playing field

Channa
 
Enforced by a Fixed Penalty Notice. The PSPO has created a crime.

There is no right of appeal

2018_04_11_193359.png


Your only chance is to wait for your criminal prosecution in the Magistrates' Court and give your defence there.
 
Very convenient and don't forget they can employ leeches like kingdom if you haven't googled take a look had two runnings with them so far

Channa
 
I can’t see a camper van having any issues parking up for a night on a road , lay-by or trading estate . As long as it’s for the night , your not having bbq’s and not causing a obstruction or nuisance. After all your only parked up there because you were tired. So you will be gone in the morning ?
 
maureenandtom said:
Enforced by a Fixed Penalty Notice. The PSPO has created a crime.

There is no right of appeal

2018_04_11_193359.png


Your only chance is to wait for your criminal prosecution in the Magistrates' Court and give your defence there.
Click to expand...

Was that quote from the PSPO itself?


Who would they prosecute, if you do not give your name? The Registered Keeper? Do they have that authority under law?

How many Enforcement Officers will they need for all thesr 'offences'?

Geoff
 
nicholsong said:
Was that quote from the PSPO itself?


Who would they prosecute, if you do not give your name? The Registered Keeper? Do they have that authority under law?

How many Enforcement Officers will they need for all thesr 'offences'?

Geoff
Click to expand...

If stopped YES you do have a legal obligation to provide a name and address separate legislation contained within a PSPO

Channa
 
If we do nothing, we will be the cause of our loss of freedom.

we must somehow join together to fight these insidious measures to minutely control us.

If councils are going to start using companies like Kingdom, then it's only the start of the police state.

I believe that Kingdom is using methods bordering on intimidation, to make people who are innocent feel/appear guilty.

We should demand to see the backgrounds of the people they employ, it wouldn't surprise me to discover that most of them have a criminal background!
It's obvious from the amount of cases that are thrown out of court that this company is operating for the most part, with dubious legality.

There must be some way to force these councils to see sense & that what they are doing is morally reprehensible.
It will only resort in the areas affected becoming poorer & people will lose their jobs because of it.

It might also be a boost for our corner, if we reported those that think it's ok to use the countryside like a dustbin!!

We need someone with a bit of nous, to captain our ship as it sails into battle with the councils unfair tactics!
Have I gone to far now:danger:

Phill
 
nicholsong said:
Because a 3.5t van does not need a tacho and tacho rules, you could have better worded that as:-

'van driver in charge of a 4.2t van...........'.

Then the point is valid.

Geoff
Click to expand...
For info, a 3.5 tonne van does not need a tacho, but anyone driving one on business is subject to the driving hours rules. See Driving a van - GOV.UK and 2. Great Britain domestic rules - Drivers’ hours and tachographs: goods vehicles - Guidance - GOV.UK. FWIW, this is one reason why one of my clients wouldn't let me drive my van from Plymouth to Bristol, do a full day's work and then drive back; as they would have been obliged to arrange overnight accommodation. It was cheaper for them to provide a hire car as the driving hours rules don't apply to cars :(
 
It looks like some welsh councils have terminated their contracts with Kingdom.

So we may be getting the point made for us.

I've just been reading some articles online, I typed Kingdom council enforcement.

They make interesting reading.

Phill
 
I wont tell you I told you so !!...any company trying to press a littering charge feeding bread to ducks must be questioned. Cooked rice aside is far better we must consider the motives of the company and its profitering agenda .They are as concerned with transparent legal process as I am sneaking an extra 400 fags on my jollies

One motivation and it isn't legal process nor justice balance sheet and a profit and loss account

I have had two run ins with these feckers both occasions no more than accusation ...I am awkward fight my corner but I know for fact my elderly neighbours wouldn't ...legalised extortion these twats

Channa
 
Is it worth getting a gathering of travellers and general motorhome owners to visit said areas and show the councils how big this community is? There would be plenty of us to stir the councils and get the media involved...

Then we could get some truth about the discriminations made to us motorhomers....??

Or do a drive through and stop over a little like when the tractors and trucks did over the price of fuel etc....

I wouldn't know how to arrange it tho, but i would turn up and join everyone...
 
nicholsong said:
Was that quote from the PSPO itself?


Who would they prosecute, if you do not give your name? The Registered Keeper? Do they have that authority under law?

How many Enforcement Officers will they need for all thesr 'offences'?

Geoff
Click to expand...

I googled "how is a pspo enforced" and took that from the list google provided. It's one of those URLs that lead to a pdf file and I can never make a proper link that works. So I've downloaded it to my dropbox and you can see it or download it from there if you wish. Nice to see you again.

Dropbox - PSPO_enforcement_policy_v2.1-2.pdf

I'm not sure about giving your name. I'm guessing that there'll somehow be a way of making you do so or intimidating you into giving it. There are stories about dog walkers being followed to their homes or cars. Registered Keeper stuff then I'm not sure. I've seen somewhere, google it again, that if Penalty Notices are issued by PCSOs then they have access to the police database. But I don't know for sure. This sort of resistance is not something that most people would do. Confronted by "authority" insisting that you give personal information, I think most would just give it.

No idea how many enforcement officer they would need but that would be a commercial decision by Kingdom or whoever the council subcontracted the work to.
 
There's going to be plenty of Enforcement Officer jobs available.

Fixed Penalty Officer Jobs in England - April 2018 | Indeed.co.uk

Here's an example:

Environmental Enforcement Officer

Ealing Council

£9.75 per hour

Plus monthly salary enhancement

Kingdom are the UK’s leading Environmental Enforcement provider and due to our continued growth within this industry working on behalf of local authorities. We are now recruiting for the position of Environmental Enforcement Officer based at Ealing Council.

Your role will involve patrolling the borough working in line with the relevant local authority’s deployment strategy and issuing Fixed Penalty Notices to offenders in contravention of the Environmental Protection Act 1990 and Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005.

You will be required to work 40-48 hours per week, Monday to Friday (including occasional weekends) shifts between 7am and 8pm, flexibility for the role is essential.
 
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