Aluminium air battery

NickVanBitz said:
Looking at the specifications, it's more likely to be seeing around the 300 cycles mark (more than the average AGM to be fair) based on rate of discharge and temp (especially if you're using high output inverters and their rated discharge performance ). It is also vital that the charge regime is bang on, so not to damage these units, so most factory mains chargers and basic solar regulators are a No-No. You need to be looking at MPPT regulators and a charger with a specific AGM profile to match their specs.
The likely hood you'll take them to 10.8v is low, as most Euro/British M/Home's consumer units kick out at 11.5v as a general rule, but my concerns would be the way you consume the power, as the performance really tails off if you hit them hard, making the 300 cycle mark a more realistic performance claim. If they aren't being hit hard, I can imagine that they would give you reasonable performance - providing that it's low current consumption in the van, but that is no different when using Lithium as taking the average 100ah Li to 50% SOC could double the cycle life (seeing that most good quality Li can be as much as 2500 cycles when discharging to 100% SOC - pending on manufacturer).

It would be interesting to see how a warranty claim is handled with one of these units that's for sure. I can imagine it having to be returned back to the supplier for testing, which would be interesting how if the amount of cycling the battery is determined and that it is excessive, but the unit still is under the 4 year warranty. Battery warranties and be a stickler, I have had many an argument over battery suppliers in these situations, especially sealed units that have been sent back, only for the suppliers to say this battery has been abused and the claim falls on deaf ears. Victron also have an RMA returns policy, so they will put pressure on the supplier to do these tests and in some cases, the product has to be returned first before a claim is complete.
[/QUOTE

Yep, some fair points.
Mine is a self-build so mains charger is more likely to be something like this:- https://sterling-power.com/collecti...ttery-chargers-non-waterproof-drip-proof-ip21
I sent an email to Sterling to check compatibility with the victron battery - their response:-

Hello Rob,
Assuming you’re not draining it of more than 30A while charging, yes, it will be fine. Our BtBs are made to include and look after lithiums as well as acid batteries. Typically leaving it on default settings works fine, or the lithium custom setting. If your battery has a clear charge voltage setting on it, then do try and set the profile to match.
We have a lithium profile on there, but not all lithiums like to coincide with that voltage, so best to quickly check.

Solar will be handled by 30A Victron MPPT Solar regulator so I don’t foresee any problem there.
I don’t intend to cane the battery on a regular basis, but like @MarkJ I’d like to know it’s there if needed.
I agree with you about potential difficulties making a claim under the warranty but I suppose that applies to all manufacturers/suppliers?

As far as I’m concerned the two major considerations are 1) cost 2) reliability of technology (which is really my own peace of mind).
In theory I could have three of the Super Cycle AGMs, each for 4 years, for the cost of one lithium and I won’t be fretting about whether or not it is set up properly and charging as it should.
Click to expand...
 
NickVanBitz said:
Looking at the specifications, it's more likely to be seeing around the 300 cycles mark (more than the average AGM to be fair) based on rate of discharge and temp (especially if you're using high output inverters and their rated discharge performance ). It is also vital that the charge regime is bang on, so not to damage these units, so most factory mains chargers and basic solar regulators are a No-No. You need to be looking at MPPT regulators and a charger with a specific AGM profile to match their specs.
The likely hood you'll take them to 10.8v is low, as most Euro/British M/Home's consumer units kick out at 11.5v as a general rule, but my concerns would be the way you consume the power, as the performance really tails off if you hit them hard, making the 300 cycle mark a more realistic performance claim. If they aren't being hit hard, I can imagine that they would give you reasonable performance - providing that it's low current consumption in the van, but that is no different when using Lithium as taking the average 100ah Li to 50% SOC could double the cycle life (seeing that most good quality Li can be as much as 2500 cycles when discharging to 100% SOC - pending on manufacturer).

It would be interesting to see how a warranty claim is handled with one of these units that's for sure. I can imagine it having to be returned back to the supplier for testing, which would be interesting how if the amount of cycling the battery is determined and that it is excessive, but the unit still is under the 4 year warranty. Battery warranties and be a stickler, I have had many an argument over battery suppliers in these situations, especially sealed units that have been sent back, only for the suppliers to say this battery has been abused and the claim falls on deaf ears. Victron also have an RMA returns policy, so they will put pressure on the supplier to do these tests and in some cases, the product has to be returned first before a claim is complete.
Click to expand...
Yep, some fair points.
Mine is a self-build so mains charger is more likely to be something like this:- https://sterling-power.com/collecti...ttery-chargers-non-waterproof-drip-proof-ip21
I sent an email to Sterling to check compatibility with the victron battery - their response:-

Hello Rob,
Assuming you’re not draining it of more than 30A while charging, yes, it will be fine. Our BtBs are made to include and look after lithiums as well as acid batteries. Typically leaving it on default settings works fine, or the lithium custom setting. If your battery has a clear charge voltage setting on it, then do try and set the profile to match.
We have a lithium profile on there, but not all lithiums like to coincide with that voltage, so best to quickly check.

Solar will be handled by 30A Victron MPPT Solar regulator so I don’t foresee any problem there.
I don’t intend to cane the battery on a regular basis, but like @MarkJ I’d like to know it’s there if needed.
I agree with you about potential difficulties making a claim under the warranty but I suppose that applies to all manufacturers/suppliers?

As far as I’m concerned the two major considerations are 1) cost 2) reliability of technology (which is really my own peace of mind).
In theory I could have three of the Super Cycle AGMs, each for 4 years, for the cost of one lithium and I won’t be fretting about whether or not it is set up properly and charging as it should.
 
R0B said:
Yep, some fair points.
Mine is a self-build so mains charger is more likely to be something like this:- https://sterling-power.com/collecti...ttery-chargers-non-waterproof-drip-proof-ip21
I sent an email to Sterling to check compatibility with the victron battery - their response:-
Click to expand...

Hi Rob, just to point out, the link you have put up is for a DC-DC charger (which is a cracking piece of kit anyway) but it's not a mains charger. I would have the B2B charger anyway (as this is by far a better piece of kit compared to a Split-Charge system), but for mains charging you can use something like a PCU1240 from Sterling for when you use hook-up.
Everything that has been advised above is bang on and quite rightly is cost over reliability. With any conventional batteries your talking hundreds of cycles, with Lithium you are talking thousands, so durability of Li does surpass conventional units. You then have the available power capacity-to-weight to consider. Most Li is a 2/3rds of the weight of it's conventional battery (the heaviest Sterling Li here is 15kg @ 120ah of available power at a nominal 12.8v).
 
NickVanBitz said:
Hi Rob, just to point out, the link you have put up is for a DC-DC charger (which is a cracking piece of kit anyway) but it's not a mains charger.
Click to expand...
Oops! my mistake. Thanks for the advice re the pcu1240 :)
 
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