advice : on no overnight sleeping and caravans signs

[Brochloon]

Not sure if this point has been made but a sign saying no overnight parking/camping ....should it not have the end result of doing such action?
It's a bit like a sign saying no parking....it must I believe spell out the consequences of doing so i.e, a £60 fine, clamping or removal.
So...what is the consequences, if there is nothing telling you then as far as I can see then there must be NO consequences...happy days!

Consequence of defying a no overnight camping notice in Newburgh was height restriction barriers. Now no daytime parking never mind overnight. If a city, town or county council put up a sign stating no overnight parking then it's because they don't want you to. Why antagonise them and risk getting Motorhomes barred altogether ? We enjoy wild camping whenever the opportunity arises, but if we're not wanted then we'll go elsewhere. This is just a personal perspective - motor homing is about making your own choices.

 

[shortcircuit]

Perhaps you should take a positive approach and write to the council and ask where you can park.

 

[Risky]

Consequence of defying a no overnight camping notice in Newburgh was height restriction barriers. Now no daytime parking never mind overnight. If a city, town or county council put up a sign stating no overnight parking then it's because they don't want you to. Why antagonise them and risk getting Motorhomes barred altogether ? We enjoy wild camping whenever the opportunity arises, but if we're not wanted then we'll go elsewhere. This is just a personal perspective - motor homing is about making your own choices.

That is of course what happens as a result of people doing something that is probably legal if the correct information is not displayed. If the body that places signs up that have no real legal backing cannot stop parking by that means...(well place the consequences there and that will stop the parking) their next step is to do the height restriction which then of course creates the problem for vans 24 hours.
My post was more a case of pointing out what the legal side was (from the minimal bit I know) as opposed to what I'd do. Personally me and the OH cannot be bothered to have the confrontations and would rather be somewhere with no chance of a busy body imposing their negativity upon our peace and quiet.

 

[Brochloon]

Perhaps you should take a positive approach and write to the council and ask where you can park.

I made a formal request (FOI) to Dundee City Council regarding why they had decided to put no overnight parking signs in the car parks along the front at Broughty Ferry and if it was done under traffic order. I received my reply, from their legal advisor, which was very long winded but stressed that the City Council had the right to impose conditions of usage for their car parks which were (the car parks) approved under local by-laws ?????

 

[shortcircuit]

I made a formal request (FOI) to Dundee City Council regarding why they had decided to put no overnight parking signs in the car parks along the front at Broughty Ferry and if it was done under traffic order. I received my reply, from their legal advisor, which was very long winded but stressed that the City Council had the right to impose conditions of usage for their car parks which were (the car parks) approved under local by-laws ?????

Thanks for the feedback. If they did not provide detail of the traffic order, which I understand must be displayed on the sign, are the just huffing and puffing with no substance?

 

[John H]

Thanks for the feedback. If they did not provide detail of the traffic order, which I understand must be displayed on the sign, are the just huffing and puffing with no substance?

Sounds very much like it. TROs are supposed to be publicly available information. In theory, you should be able to get them from the local library. If they don't quote chapter and verse then I would be very suspicious of them.

Having said that, I very much agree with the comments about not going where people obviously don't want me. Apart from the potential physical danger to the motorhome from angry locals, there is also the height barrier thing that has been mentioned above. Creating a fuss can sometimes be cutting off your nose to spite your face. Battles need to be chosen carefully - there is no need to try and win every one!

 

[Wooie1958]

Creating a fuss can sometimes be cutting off your nose to spite your face!

There`s plenty prepared to do that on here ................................... LOL

 

[Brochloon]

Thanks for the feedback. If they did not provide detail of the traffic order, which I understand must be displayed on the sign, are the just huffing and puffing with no substance?

Aye, you are probably quite right. Thing is, I was in the Civil Service for 34 years and part of my responsibilities towards the end of my career was replying to FOI requests. We were told to give just the minimum of info required to meet the request and if more was then requested, a charge of £30 was applied for "further in-depth research". Way I look at it - it's Broughty Ferry's loss. We'll still go and have a great day but find somewhere else to overnight and we'll buy our fuel, food etc wherever we're made welcome.

 

[maingate]

Consequence of defying a no overnight camping notice in Newburgh was height restriction barriers. Now no daytime parking never mind overnight. If a city, town or county council put up a sign stating no overnight parking then it's because they don't want you to. Why antagonise them and risk getting Motorhomes barred altogether ? We enjoy wild camping whenever the opportunity arises, but if we're not wanted then we'll go elsewhere. This is just a personal perspective - motor homing is about making your own choices.

So the height barriers would be just as illegal as the 'no overnighting' signs were.

If it was done illegally near me then I would turn it into a crusade just to be mischievous.

Old people with time on their hands can be a right pain. :banana:

 

[John H]

So the height barriers would be just as illegal as the 'no overnighting' signs were.

If it was done illegally near me then I would turn it into a crusade just to be mischievous.

Old people with time on their hands can be a right pain. :banana:

I think you'll find that no TRO is needed for a Council to erect a height barrier on its own land. There is no compulsion on any Council to provide off-street car parking, so they can put up height barriers, concrete blocks, dig ditches or simply sell off the land for building development if they choose.

 

[steco1958]

I think you'll find that no TRO is needed for a Council to erect a height barrier on its own land. There is no compulsion on any Council to provide off-street car parking, so they can put up height barriers, concrete blocks, dig ditches or simply sell off the land for building development if they choose.

A TRO may be needed for height barriers, however you will still not be able to park, so council gets their way, they also have many people to utilise if a request comes in, and they can generate a multitude of letters if they wish.

I travel both with MH and car for business, if I wish to visit an area, and I am unable to park due to height barriers or restrictive parking notices, you know what I get the hint and I use my diesel to go elsewhere to spend my hard earned cash.

 

[Derf]

Here's my take on it;

 

[Stardreamer]

Signs

A medium sized dog with large white teeth are a good deterant for busybodys especially in the hours of darkness.
:tongue:

 

[John H]

A TRO may be needed for height barriers, however you will still not be able to park, so council gets their way, they also have many people to utilise if a request comes in, and they can generate a multitude of letters if they wish.

I travel both with MH and car for business, if I wish to visit an area, and I am unable to park due to height barriers or restrictive parking notices, you know what I get the hint and I use my diesel to go elsewhere to spend my hard earned cash.

Hi

Sometimes, height barriers are used as a way of enforcing TROs but I know of no legislation that requires a TRO to be established if a council wishes to simply put up barriers, gates or other obstructions at the entrance to all or any of its car parks. As I said earlier, there is nothing to compel councils to provide car parking spaces; it follows that any council can decide not to at any time.

I totally agree with your second paragraph - if they don't want me then I'll spend my cash where they do want me - in Hawick, for example!

 

[maingate]

Hi

Sometimes, height barriers are used as a way of enforcing TROs but I know of no legislation that requires a TRO to be established if a council wishes to simply put up barriers, gates or other obstructions at the entrance to all or any of its car parks. As I said earlier, there is nothing to compel councils to provide car parking spaces; it follows that any council can decide not to at any time.

I totally agree with your second paragraph - if they don't want me then I'll spend my cash where they do want me - in Hawick, for example!

As for Hawick John, the Council gets no credit there. It was the local Tourist authorities who pushed for it and it only happened because that very large car park has nothing to do with the Council. It is owned by the people of Hawick under an ancient statute. The Council were very reluctant for the Aire to go ahead and only agreed to a trial period. They may even get it stopped yet.

 

[John H]

As for Hawick John, the Council gets no credit there. It was the local Tourist authorities who pushed for it and it only happened because that very large car park has nothing to do with the Council. It is owned by the people of Hawick under an ancient statute. The Council were very reluctant for the Aire to go ahead and only agreed to a trial period. They may even get it stopped yet.

True - when I spoke of people not wanting us, I was referring to the wider community. Councils only tend to do what their more vociferous voters want them to do, so if an area has a lot of "no overnighting" notices then you can be pretty sure that many of the locals will try to make your life hell - which brings us full circle!

The Hawick experiment seems to have gone down well with us, with locals and with local businesses, so unless a few anti-social motorhomers start dropping s*** all over the tarmac then I suspect the scheme will be allowed to continue. On the other hand, there is often no logic to council decisions

 

[landyrubbertramp]

Also remember that if you live in another area u therefor have not vote hence why the council have less respect for m homers . As for not parking in a spot wit just a sign and no tro just gives the green light for the council to put more signs up as they have win as ur either too scared or lazy to challenge or both

 

[landyrubbertramp]

If the council had a sign telling ppl to jump off a cliff I swear sum people would jump

 

[steco1958]

If the council had a sign telling ppl to jump off a cliff I swear sum people would jump

So you still want to visit where your not wanted, and you will spend your money in the businesses that have requested you not to be there !!

myself, can't be arsed with them, spend it where I am welcomed and appreciated.

 

[Photophil]

As I see it under common law as long as you don't steal anything or hurt anyone you're ok and the police can't bother you as you haven't committed a crime. An act or stature is only enforceable by consent and I don't consent.