advice : on no overnight sleeping and caravans signs

justdoitviv

Guest
This morning the council has erected a couple of signs in a local layby saying. No overnight sleeping and caravans. Nearest campsite is XXXXXX

Can the council do this?

I feel quite upset about this as I have used this layby, right by the sea, for about 30 years. It is not near any houses. I spend at least a third of my time in this layby. It is popular with motorhomes in summer, and fishermen all year round. I had a feeling this was going to happen as last year the council men were knocking on the doors of motorhomes saying they cant sleep the night. Even though there were no signs. There has never been a problem with waste laying around or rowdy behaviour that I know of. Last year for the first time, two caravans parked there long term, and made themselves at home. But this was the first time. Down the road is heavily populated with campsites, and chalets.

The reason why I am upset about this is that I used to park by some lakes, quarter of a mile from my home as well, and then the council put gates on the path so no one can drive in any more. I also parked up the road on the sand banks. Then the council made it an expensive paying car park, with no overnight sleeping. I also parked up the road, by the cliffs opposite the beach, then that was made into a car park. No my last remaining place has no overnight sleeping.

I feel my freedom and rights have slowly been stripped away.

The council I heard had complains from the campsite, which is now advertised on the notice board, that he was loosing business. I can understand it with caravans, but not motorhomes as most have their own electric, and carry water, so don't need a campsite. Surely with all these councils doing this, people will stop buy motorhomes as what is the point if you have to book into a campsite.

Is there anything I can do about this?
Thanks
 
If you've been there for 30 years I'm not surprised they put up a sign :)

Seriously though there does seem to be a trend of discriminating against motorhomes, I don't know about the legality of the signs but lots of lorry drivers park up overnight are they any different to a motorhome, pull up, park for the night then leave in the morning, no harm done.

Its probably a combination of NIMBYs, over zealous campsite owners worried about their profits and people being influenced by the media images of "traveler" camps, its a sad situation which is why we will be going to mainland Europe next year.
 
yes

Old_Arthur said:
?? Is it the layby down Shellness road ?
Click to expand...

Yes opposite a field, where all the fishermen go. Signs went up this morning as I was waking up. A lot of elderly people park there on a sat/sun, read the paper and have a little snooze. I wonder what they going to make of the no sleeping sign
 
In order to determine the legality of the signs it is necessary to establish whether or not there is a Road Traffic Order backing them up. As a general rule, if there is no reference to a TRO on the sign then there is a good chance that there isn't one. In order to establish a TRO, the local council would have to go through a long, time-consuming and expensive process including public consultation. Consequently, many councils don't bother and hope a sign will be enough to deter people. There is nothing illegal about this UNLESS the council try to impose a penalty for not conforming with the sign. You can check whether there is a TRO by simply asking the council. Any attempt to prevaricate probably means there isn't. But, remember, if there is no TRO then creating a fuss might push them into making one and thus preventing you from doing what you want to do by simply ignoring the sign and, if challenged, saying that there was no reference to a TRO and so you assumed the sign had no legal force.
 
If there`s a sign anywhere like this then i don`t park overnight.

The last thing i want once we`ve settled down is for the local Busybody / Know-It-All to start banging on the door and pointing out the sign.
 
The sign MUST be illegal for the simple reason that a Council is not allowed to promote a Campsite. It is EU law I believe. Well, it's somebodys Law anyway.
 
justdoitviv said:
Can the council do this?
Click to expand...

They've done it!
Some years ago my local council put up a sign at the top of Dunstable Downs saying 'No Hang Gliding'. They had to take it down after the people who hang glide pointed out there was no law preventing them from doing so.
More recently the same council put up signs around the town centre warning of a £500 fine for consuming alcohol in the street. They were forced to change the sign to say the maximimum fine allowed by law would be imposed.
Sounds like the sign you're referring to is similarly not enforceable.
 
No overnight

Hi all,
by law the legality for overnight is between 11.45pm and 12.15am, So unless a council bod or policeman want to sit and wait till between these times they cannot prosecute you. In order for a signpost to be completly legal it must state the times you cannot stay between for example no parking between 6pm and 6am. It also must state the by-laws under it. So I would just park there regardless, it is doubtful anyone is going to sit up to those hours to prove you have been there.x
 
Wooie1958 said:
If there`s a sign anywhere like this then i don`t park overnight.

The last thing i want once we`ve settled down is for the local Busybody / Know-It-All to start banging on the door and pointing out the sign.
Click to expand...

So give in to an illegal sign? Have you experienced a local busybody/know-it-all or is this just supposition?
 
shortcircuit said:
So give in to an illegal sign? Have you experienced a local busybody/know-it-all or is this just supposition?
Click to expand...

The thing is you will though and some people just dont want any kind of hassle or confrontation which is I guess what the council, campsite owners and general pain in the arse busy bodys hope for. Most people will move on if its a legal sign or not.

I remember one January trying to find somewhere to stop in Devon in foul weather. It was snowing badly and getting dark. We pulled into a large completely empty Pay and display car park on Slapton Sands right by the sea. We watch the snow fall on the beach and only us there. It was magical. I bought a ticket but noticed the small print saying no overnight parking etc. Dont know if it had a TRO or not. Didnt care. Surely nobody would bother us on such an awful night when it was totally unsafe to carry on.

Nobody did but early the next morning I stepped outside and was approached by a local who had trudged about half a mile from the village throught the snow to point out to me as nicely as possible that there was no overnighting on his car park! ****! You couldnt make it up.

He wouldnt know what a TRO was but you can bet your bottom dollar that a lot of locals will delight in seeing these signs go up and will probably look forward to coming over and giving you a finger wagging.

And why do flipping campsites seem to think we owe them a living. I read on a forum the other day (not this one thank god) a post where an actual fellow motorhomer stated "Motorhomers who wild camp or use Aires etc are depriving Campsite owners of a living"! WHAAAAAAT!! So when I go and park in the town tomorrow instead of taking advantage of the ample free parking around the town I should seek out the most expensive private car park and park in that then should I to help them out?

Argh!
 
I have only once been bothered by a righteous local-on a piece of common land in Wales-who started haranguing me ,in a very posh English accent,about 8 am ! I unfortunately burst out laughing,which made her more strident.in the end she went off raging and didn't return
I then decided,that if it happened again,i would calmly inform the interested local that I was calling the police,which I would do,in both our interests,as I believed they were illegally harassing me and that may lead to a breach of the peace
i hate these smug bullies-who the feck do they think they are ?
 
shortcircuit said:
So give in to an illegal sign? Have you experienced a local busybody/know-it-all or is this just supposition?
Click to expand...



Yes i have, twice over the years.

The first one was a similar situation to barryd`s, a completely empty large car park where we tucked ourselves in a corner.

There was a sign saying " No Overnight Sleeping / Camping " or words to that effect but was obviously not official.

A few cars / dog walkers came and went with no problems but about 10pm there was a knock on the door.

I answered it and there was a guy telling me i wasn`t allowed to park there and couldn`t spend the night and wanted to show me the sign.

I was polite but firm with him and told him the sign wasn`t legal and we would be gone in the morning, with that he left.

We had a very quiet and peaceful night however at 5:30am things changed.

3 cars pulled into the still empty ( apart from us ) car park and parked so close i had difficulty getting out of our van.

They started slamming car doors and whistling and shouting as loud as they could to their dogs.

I got out and asked them if it all this was really necessary at this time in the morning.

They replied " you`re not supposed to f*cking well be here in the first place, there are signs and you was told last night ".

1 guy on his own would have got a smack in the gob for speaking to me like that however 3 are a bit much even for me to take on !!

The second incident wasn`t as bad.

If that sort of incident doesn`t bother you then you are a better person than i am !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I had a couple of odd experiences whilst parked up, middle nowhere but with "no overnight parking" sign and some tosser comes along and flashes his headlamps for about an hour, I assume it was because of the signage that he picked on us. When I got out with a Tirfor winch handle he took off. He probably got the reaction he was after.

A parking warden came looking for a ticket - which I had bought - and proceeded to harangue me about tinkers and travellers fouling the place up. I finally got fed up, put down my cereal spoon and told him that if he said another thing I'd shove his little book where the sun don't shine, he retreated muttering about Australians!!!

But in fairness to some great wilding spots, they were putrid with rubbish when I visited the UK in 2007, old car bodies, the smell of urine and faeces was sometimes enough to move on. So I can see why locals get a bit toey. One thing I did notice was that laybys/parking areas with rubbish bins were far cleaner than the "take your rubbish home" variety.

Australia has an "RV Friendly Town" scheme running, usually with free parking for upto three days and with other facilities - water, dump point, power at some places. The smart towns realise that bringing in motorhomes/campers is a good way to boost local trade - shopping, fuel, etc. The parking areas are usually on the outskirts of a town, but historically these were overnight camping areas for travellers and drovers, so the land is already set aside. We also have a "leave no trace" scheme which is about proving to councils that motorhomes are self contained and don't drop water, toilet waste and rubbish all over the ground. There is a very active (politically and socially) motorhome club as well which has initiated the above schemes for those who like to wild camp. United we stand and all that.
 
And the above my friends are the reasons why so many of us bugger off abroad.

There is too little respect for motorhomers in the UK and way too much pettyness, NIMBY attitude and jealousy. All this makes enjoyable wilding that much more difficult.

This is why I tend to avoid places even where there is an illegal sign.

Its a sad case of affairs but what can you do?
 
mistaken sign

Old_Arthur said:
?? Is it the layby down Shellness road ?
Click to expand...

I was there again last night when a group of people turned up and turned the signs around to face the beach and not the layby. I walked further up and the signs higher up in the layby state no overnight camping or caravan. the nearest campsite is called xxxx up the road. Surely it would not apply to motorhomes as we not camping and our vechicle is not a caravan?
 
shortcircuit said:
So give in to an illegal sign? Have you experienced a local busybody/know-it-all or is this just supposition?
Click to expand...

it's up to you If it's spoiling your fun then park there , as already said it is not illegal to ignore the sign and park if is not enforceable , stuff um ! their just trying it on .
 
Why don't they do the same as in Australia and France and allow parking for so many days with facilities such as bins and water , as said it would boost trade in the towns and also if there was a small charge and parking times were made law people would not take the p*ss , CCTV would be a good idea as well , people would feel safer and thieves and trouble makers would get nicked , they should go the whole hog ! , spend a few million on these parking areas and they would soon pay for themselves .
 
Not sure if this point has been made but a sign saying no overnight parking/camping ....should it not have the end result of doing such action?
It's a bit like a sign saying no parking....it must I believe spell out the consequences of doing so i.e, a £60 fine, clamping or removal.
So...what is the consequences, if there is nothing telling you then as far as I can see then there must be NO consequences...happy days!
 
We were parked having dinner at the car park near Cadair Idris in Wales last year when this woman came up to our door to speak to us and see what we were planning to do. It turned out following a short conversation that she owned the local camp-site and was drumming up trade.Followed was a heated discussion about supporting local communities etc, where I pointed out that I would be purchasing £100 of welsh diesel locally. Turned out that all she was interested in were her own profits and she became really agitated and offensive with me,
 
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