About Time.

I am not sure how questioning the merits of proposed legislation considering legislation exists amounts to anti police

But if we consider the folk of extinction rebellion were illegally arrested and charged according to the courts the blame lies at the police force as an entity not a specific individual

In this part of the world there is a very expensive at the public purse inquiry into the hills borough disaster and increasing pressure for investigation of the orgreave incidents during the miners strike

We have already seen the abuse of process in the handing out of public protection space orders , the constant misuse(deliberate) mid use of location signage eg no overnight parking

Such signage clearly indicates someone somewhere doesn't want your presence but here is the rub ,all of us are expected to act within the law that's fair so equally those that enforce and make the rules should do likewise and their agents ...that is the rub it isn't about being anti anyone
 
An interesting article indeed deliciagirl I agree with the author marginalising a section of society is dangerous and who knows where it leads our communities are fractured enough
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When I retuned to the uk full timing the dwp at least because I lived in my van classed me as a traveller I kid not

Interestingly the travelling community didn't consider me a traveller nor did the showmen consider me one of their kin ...you are in effect a social outcast ...zoom forward 6 years , my own flat and all the trappings a respectable lad that goes about his business I haven't changed never stolen, honour my obligations financial or moral yet the same person the label changes ....speakd volumes of our society me thinks and patels proposals could have serious repercussions on our full timing community unless they resort to using sites full time
 
No problem @BusyLizzy. My son is a sergeant in the Met, based in East London and I have nothing but admiration for him and his colleagues. It’s easy to sit in our warm homes and complain about things or shoot the £$%^ behind a computer screen but I know who most of us will be calling when things get a bit too real.
 
hextal said:
I'm still fairly certain that there are already several means of classifying trespass as criminal. From memory... If there are more than a certain number of vehicles, if the trespassers act in a threatening/intimidating manner, if they prevent the owner from using the land for a specific intended purpose.

I had to look them up not long ago because C&RT threatened to have me arrested for trespass.... For walking along the towpath (open to the public) in order to inspect a bridge, on behalf of the DfT. Nice bunch!!!
Click to expand...

I believe that you are correct. This sounds to me like just another unnecessary addition to the paperwork to make it look as if they are doing something before an election. If it ends up happening then I suspect - as others have said - that it won't be the real troublemakers who suffer.
 
To get back to the original point we need to consider the problem being solved.
When travellers park up on private ground removing them is a civil issue. The police won't take action unless there are criminal issues which might remove some miscreants for misdeeds elsewhere but it won't do anything about the encampment.
The costs of the civil action fall on the landowner who technically has to prove that his human rights to "enjoy" his land outweigh those of the travellers to family life and somewhere to live. Not normally too difficult for private landowners.
You may guess that much of the law comes from the European Court of Human Rights.
So there will be a big financial benefit for private landowners - I won't apply any political spin to a Tory proposal😀

When the land is owned by a public body such as a council it is still considered to be private but the human rights issues may be more finely balanced.
So if the travellers behave themselves and don't cause too much actual nuisance they may be tolerated for a while and a negotiated solution may be achieved.

On the Highway the police can act if there is obstruction or if people are 'camping' rather than just parking - we've heard of similar 'rules' in Spain such as using levellers.
However in the past if only one or two vehicles or caravans were out of the way on a verge or layby the benefits/rights argument came into play and a degree of tolerance would often be allowed.

So the new legislation would give the police powers to move people on from car parks etc - how quickly they'll react if there are a few unrelated motorhomes is debatable.
Presumably they'll respond to landowner request or public reports.
Devil in detail on what an encampment is but I don't doubt that the 50 vans at Burry Port last year would have triggered action.

Much the same would apply to Highway but will a few vehicles parked by drivers exercising their right to park for a few hours while the drivers rest really count as an encampment?

I don't see arrive late leave early wielding falling foul of any new law.



L
 
How many times have you parked up by yourself and within a short time see a police car lingering close by? I've noticed it at least once every long trip. They have, no doubt, had a phone call from some local resident. Should the law change will that officer just check you out or will they feel empowered to threaten arrest and seizure if you don't move on.
 
We'll have to see what comes along - do we expect the lower limit to be one vehicle?
I probably don't spend as much tome on the road as you but I've never experienced lingering policemen.
I guess it depends how close to residential areas one parks up?
 
R0B said:
No problem @BusyLizzy. My son is a sergeant in the Met, based in East London and I have nothing but admiration for him and his colleagues. It’s easy to sit in our warm homes and complain about things or shoot the £$%^ behind a computer screen but I know who most of us will be calling when things get a bit too real.
Click to expand...

We may call but will they come?

I called them a few months ago. It was a ‘live’ situation & I was told they would attend as soon as possible. I called them back about 45 minutes later to tell them not to rush as the incident was over, but I had photographic evidence for them. They provided an email address for me to send it to & until now I’ve heard nothing back.

Maybe they were all here:
“How many officers are working on the police operation for the fracking?
On a daily basis, there are approximately 100 officers directly involved in the policing of the fracking operation.”
Source:
https://www.lancashire.police.uk/help-advice/safer-communities/fracking/

The fact is we don’t “sit in our warm homes……” only. We have our experiences of being out there in society too. The one they walk around in & attend incidences in is the same one we live in.

My local police station has the police safely stationed behind bullet proof glass, locking doors & top notch security. What about us on the other side? It is the society they are responsible for. If they feel the need for such high level security, how do they think we feel living without it on the same side of those who they are hiding from?

I recently attended a big, newly developed police HQ in my area. Nice easy parking, lots of space, out of town so easy to get to – but no access for the public. The place is full of police but you cannot go there to report crimes etc. I think that shows where they believe their priorities are going forward.

We may well be proud of individuals in the force but as a service it losing respect & rightly so. Most defence of the police on here is for individuals & most of the criticism is for the force as a whole; therefore both are legitimate.
 
Markd said:
We'll have to see what comes along - do we expect the lower limit to be one vehicle?
I probably don't spend as much tome on the road as you but I've never experienced lingering policemen.
I guess it depends how close to residential areas one parks up?
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I never stop close to housing, quite often it is quite off the beaten track.
 
I've come across travellers in the local parks and open spaces around Poole while out with the dog,it's clear they have caused criminal damage,cutting locks,removing bollards,ripping up the grass and depositing rubbish. I just don't understand why the current laws can't be enforced and why these people don't have these laws applied to them.
I usually walk the dog at 6am before work and I just admit my one guilty pleasure is to let him off to go and wind up all their dogs and wake everyone up,it's a public park after all.
 
Asterix said:
I've come across travellers in the local parks and open spaces around Poole while out with the dog,it's clear they have caused criminal damage,cutting locks,removing bollards,ripping up the grass and depositing rubbish. I just don't understand why the current laws can't be enforced and why these people don't have these laws applied to them.
I usually walk the dog at 6am before work and I just admit my one guilty pleasure is to let him off to go and wind up all their dogs and wake everyone up,it's a public park after all.
Click to expand...
sounds like you're doing a public service
 
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