A call to arms!

[Bigpeetee]

E.mail sent

I may not be the best at writing a letter, but here is my mail:

Mr Bennett,

re the proposed banning of motorhomes.

I feel that any ban is not taking a long term positive approach to tourism.

Every area should be encouraging ANY form of tourism, but why concentrate on Motorhomes?

If you feel that the free parking of a motorhome reduces income from hotels or campsites, that is maybe as if you are aware of the requirements of a motorhome, you will realise that they do not require the facilities offered by either a hotel or campsite.

Are you concerned about someone getting something for free?? if so I presume you will remove all of the picnic tables from your area as they are stopping restaurants and cafés gaining an income. They are after all, getting something for free.

If you were to be an enlightened council, you would offer at low rate or free facilities for the growing number of motorhomes rather than turn them away. Believe it or not, we do spend in the towns we visit, but perhaps distribute our wealth in a different manner. Many authorities across Europe actively encourage motorhomes to stay and spend money in their locality.

I appreciate that there will be a small minority who abuse any service that a council provides, but a blanket ban on motorhomes is a totally negative attitude.

I presume the council has an equal opportunities policy along with an anti discrimination policy, surely by banning a single class of vehicle will go against both of these policies??

In order to discuss further please forward:

1. The proposal to ban motorhomes and the rationale behind these proposals.
2. The councils Equal Opportunities Policy
3. The councils anti discrimination policy
4. The proposed cost of implementing such a ban including any works to be undertaken.

 

[groyne]

Scarborough Borough Council covers a very large area - including Whitby.

Indeed it does, but it only covers small part of North Yorkshire.

For those that don't know the area, SBC is the one with the long coastline.

And as I said in my previous post, only 15 carparks in that area are subject to the notice.

 

[berniesbargreece]

Something to say??

This is not the case.

Just been to Whitby and read the notice at Westcliffe (only 2 on display, both in the in the Pay and Display Carparks).

The notice lists 62 Carparks under SBCs control, but the notice only pertains to 15 of them and only bans Motorhomes from them between the hours of 11pm and 7am.

The notice does not mention on road parking restrictions and the only notices on Westcliffe are the unenforcible no sleeping ones.

Something to say? I am confused my friend. Are the council trying to ban motorhomes? Is this notice something we should not fear? Am I missing something here? What is your point? Please help as I am missing something? Something to say?

 

[berniesbargreece]

Something to say??

Indeed it does, but it only covers small part of North Yorkshire.

For those that don't know the area, SBC is the one with the long coastline.

And as I said in my previous post, only 15 carparks in that area are subject to the notice.

Only 15 car parks??!! WELL THATS ALL RIGHT THEN!! I THOUGHT WE HAD A PROBLEM!!

Please explain what I am missing here? Do you work for the Council? Are you a B&B owner my friend?

 

[Deleted member 830]

From the photo of the sign it seems the OP somewhat over stated the fact of a complete parking ban.

On the sign from another member the car parks affected are listed, and there is not 60 of them.

 

[groyne]

Something to say? I am confused my friend.

That is part of my Sig, aimed at those who browse but never seem to contribute to the Forum and the full quote is "Haven't you got something to say?"

But to the point of the parking notice, the relevant part is shown in the photo, it says;

"The amendment of schedule A to the Order to prohibit Motorcaravans between 11pm and 7am on Carparks 4,8,9,15,21,22,28,32,34,44,48,49,50,53,58"

Which means of the 62 carparks listed only 15 are subject to the above order.

To put simply you cannot park in these carparks between the hours of 11pm and 7am, any other times you are OK to park subject to any other restrictions such as weight etc.

Is that any clearer?


Also as I put in my post this Order does not affect on road parking.

 

[Northerner]

Only 15 car parks??!! WELL THATS ALL RIGHT THEN!! I THOUGHT WE HAD A PROBLEM!!

Please explain what I am missing here? Do you work for the Council? Are you a B&B owner my friend?

I think that the point is pretty obvious. You are claiming that the council is banning motorhomes from 60 car parks and you do not differentiate between overnighting and parking during the day, despite me asking you exactly what you were referring to.

It now turns out that this is wrong and we are not being barred from parking on any car park and that it's overnighting that's being banned on just fifteen car parks. If you want people to start protesting to the council then they're going to look pretty silly if they accuse the council of doing something that it hasn't done!

And all your talk about segregation and prejudice and discrimination and comparing this to banning Asians is really over the top. Motorhomes and caravans are banned in many place and often for a good reason. Should travellers and tinkers be allowed to park wherever they like or is that being prejudiced and discriminatory? Should campers be allowed to pitch their tents in the park, or is that discrimination?

 

[dodge2transit]

that will teach me from not reading a thread all the way to the last as just sent a stinking email of with i will have to send a apology as mis read the thread on here, god dam it,:mad1:
my folt....

 

[groyne]

that will teach me from not reading a thread all the way to the last as just sent a stinking email of with i will have to send a apology as mis read the thread on here, god dam it,:mad1:
my folt....

And that is why I drove to Whitby earlier today ( I also wanted to visit Whitby Angling) to see first hand exactly what the notices said and where they were located.

 

[berniesbargreece]

Many thanks

And that is why I drove to Whitby earlier today ( I also wanted to visit Whitby Angling) to see first hand exactly what the notices said and where they were located.

You have made a very valid point. Well done.

1 Ban is 1 ban too many.

 

[groyne]

You have made a very valid point. Well done.
.

Thankyou, I'll take that as an apology.

1 Ban is 1 ban too many

I agree, but before calling for an all out revolution I think it's best to find out exactly what we're fighting for.

And for the record;

1) I don't work for SBC.

2) I don't own a B&B.

I'm originally from "the Boro" ( and yes I did live in the Cannon St area, went to both St Pats, lived over the road from one of them) so I know how "yous" lot can easily get excited.

 

[maureenandtom]

We already knew of this. http://democracy.scarborough.gov.uk/documents/s43629/12332 - Motorhomes - 20120627.pdf. Paragraph 3.13.

One of the threads about it is http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/general-chat/13727-scarborough-traders-complain.html

The situation in Scarborough as I understand some of it is that off-street parking is under the control of Scarborough council. On-street parking is under the control of North Yorks District Council. We are concerned here only with off-street parking.

In addition to the banning of some o/n parking, paragraph 3.8 of the linked document proposes a one year trial of permitted overnight parking at three car parks. Chargeable at £10 a night. We've seen elsewhere that this charge has been referred back to the committee responsible for these things, in the next day to two I think, so it looks possible that the fee is still not yet fixed and there is no change to the rules at other car parks.

The definition of camping is given in paragraph 3.4 but where the definition comes from isn't shown. Any barrack room lawyers (or the more respectable kind) to shed light on whether this definition is valid? Can we provide our own equally valid definition?

Paragraph 3.12 defines what is a motor caravan. The source of that definition is also vague.
Any (barrack room or other) lawyer shed light on that validity please?

In an email of 24th August 2011 Jane Wilson, deputy parking manager and presumably speaking authoritatively, contradicts this; she said:

As there isn’t a vehicle class definition for motorhomes, it would not be possible in legal terms to differentiate between motorhomes and other car park users, even if the Council wished to allow that, which they don’t.

It seems that, when you want a definition, you can find one. Or can you? Can you just change your mind on these things almost on a whim?

I'm fairly certain I don't want to argue with the council over this. I think they're on the way to providing Aires for motorhomes. I want to see this happen. I realise that many do not.

 

[Firefox]

I do try to spend in the local area if I can, especially a rural one. Obviously not campsites, but things like pubs, tearooms and local village shops which are vital to the local comminity. Passing trade can make a real difference and it's nice if we use a rural area, to be able to contribute to its economy.

 

[BrianG]

My motorhome IS my only vehicle and I am always being frustrated and angered by the number of car parks with height barriers. Is there a REALLY Valid need for these at all? If the carpark is very small and only suitable for cars OK. I'm not going to try to squeeze in there anyway. If there is plenty of room, what is the problem?
By the way is it correct that some car parks in Blackpool have an overnight parking charge for motorhomes? Just thinking I've never seen the illuminations,

 

[sean rua]

" Should travellers and tinkers be allowed to park wherever they like or is that being prejudiced and discriminatory?": asked Northener.

My answer to the first part is "yes", provided the place is a traditional atchin tan or halting site and is on common land ( which is mighty uncommon since the restrictive legislation of the Sixties).:sad:

Failing alternative provision, we have to go wherever we can get - just like the swallows and the geese.


As to the second part of the question, I have no idea. It's not a bother.

Getting back to the original topic, my own view is that petitioning etc will prove a complete waste of time and effort.
As traffic increases and the Recession starts to bite deeper and deeper, the authorities ( councillors and MPs) are unlikely to be too fussed about helping a very small minority of visitors, whom they know are unlikely to be entitled to vote in any elections in which they have to fight.

As I predicted before, motorhome camping will become more and more difficult day by day. This will be for a whole host of factors, and I regret to say that democratic rights and the niceties of points of law will just not figure in the grand scheme of things, imo.

Despite this opinion and prediction, I shall not stand in the way of those who feel the need to make some sort of protest and effort, but, in practical terms, I'm afraid you can include me out on this one.

I do hope you achieve what you desire! :goodluck:


sean rua.

" Ignorance is Treatable; Arrogance is Terminal."

 

[al n sal]

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[ivecotrucker]

My objection to "Report of the head of tourism & culture - 12/332" now registered. Pointless I know but just exercising my democratic rights whilst we still have them (no polemical comments please !).

 

[Lee]

Is Scarborough such a wonderful place to visit?
Is it worth all the discussion about parking.
Can't you just park in the town during the day and then find a wild camping spot or a pub for the night.
Isn't life short enough without worrying about Scarborough.

 

[Northerner]

I'm still happy to not spend fuel and definitely not any time or money visiting a place or area that doesn't want my custom, unless I'm happy to be bullied into using an over priced campsite belonging to a fat greedy councilor.
i don't know about my comments being racist, but it is probably fat councillor-ist.

And people wonder why we're not wanted and disliked by many people. Who's bullied you into using a campsite? How do you know that they're overpriced? Which councillor owns a campsite? If such a person existed what has his weight got to do with it? If I were a councillor I wouldn't want anyone with views like yours 100 miles from my town. They simply show that you are unreasonable, selfish and care nothing for anyone else. You should read the post earlier in this thread where one member admits that he spends as little as possible whenever he goes anywhere!

Has it ever occurred to you that councillors act on the wishes of their constituents and that maybe the residents of Scarborough are sick to death of free-loading motorhomers who think that they've the God-given right to park anywhere just because they've spent a few grand on a campervan? Just for once in your life try to see things from other people's point of view. The way to address a problem such as this is with reasonable discussion and putting forward intelligent arguments, not silly rants that have no basis in any facts.

 

[northernspirit2001]

email sent