Electrics / Leisure battery problem

[Conroy]

It has actually been tested now by 2 auto electricians and the AA man, when you say 'tested properly' I wonder if you mean some other kind of test. Maybe I will try Halfords though, no harm done.

I did also go back to ATS where I bought the battery, just 12 months ago. They tested it and said it was 'good' so couldn't change it under warranty. If it does turn out to be the battery I won't be going back there for a new one!

 

[trevskoda]

I believe you're incorrect about the fridge when operated on 12 volts.

Three way fridges are always wired so that the 12 volt feed is provided directly by the vehicle alternator ...

Not gt ,its run of the engine battery through a relay which is charged by the alt.

 

[Conroy]

The reality is that what you have installed would just be good enough if working perfectly. A 110Ah battery has a usable capacity of 66Ah. The fridge takes 5 amps when on. Assume it is only on 40% of the time. That means it uses 2A on average.

A motorhome with a gas fridge will normally have a 110Ah battery, so you can safely assume that at least half the capacity is not available for the fridge. So that means you have 33 amp hours available for something that uses 2 amps.

Simple maths* says you are good for 16.5 hours. Or 33 hours if everything else is switched off!

Now when you were managing to make it last several days, chances are that you were running the battery well below the 40% full minimum. Each time you do that, the battery loses maybe 0.5% of its capacity. So the problem returns faster the next time. And maybe it ran flat in the winter. Chances are that your 110Ah battery is now a perfectly good 65Ah battery, with a usable capacity of 38Ah.

So what to do? Well, the first thing I suggest is to make sure you know what is happening. Buy a multimeter (less than a tenner) so you can see what the voltage is directly across the battery terminals.

You may need to replace the battery with a pair of proper deep cycle batteries of a similar capacity. I reckon you need at least 220Ah with a compressor fridge.
You may also need to sort out your charging when on the road to make sure the battery is being filled up. Your van isn't Euro 5 or Euro 6, is it?

Note that I've made no mention of your solar panel. It may have been helping out, but you really can't depend on never getting five overcast days in a row.

*Quick explanation, which you may not need, but others might:
Amps is the speed that the current flows down the wire. Amp hours is the amount that has flowed (speed x time) Volts is the pressure. Pressure x Speed (V x A) = energy expended (watts).

I should explain it was at lest a couple of years ago that the leisure battery was running really well, lasting days without hook-up or driving, and it was a different battery then. The one in now is only 12 months old.

I do have a multimeter and did some readings yesterday (see my posts to Fazerloz at 19.09 08.35). Do they give any indications?

The leisure battery does charge fine from driving. We can tell from the gauge on the PMS, which goes from a red light for lowest through 4 green lights up to highest, and of course by the fact the fridge then works fine, for a few hours anyway.

The fact is the electrical set-up is the same as it was when it worked fine, and as stated the battery is only 1 year old.

Re your post at 21.57: I must admit this is all very confusing to me. I think (from googling) the engine is Euro 3, but I don't know what difference this makes or if what you wrote is relevant to my van. Many thanks for your comments though.

 

[Deleted member 5816]

OK so test voltage with fridge OFF

Turn fridge ON test voltage repeat the test every hour for say 5 hours do this in the daytime so you should be getting some solar charge.

record the readings

Alf

Did another check late last night as you suggested. First reading with fridge off was 12.92; then 12.45 with fridge on; then 12.67 with fridge off again. I'm guessing that the fact it was not much lower with the fridge on indicates the battery may be OK after all. OR DOES IT? Maybe that's too simplistic. As I've already said, I'm not very technical.

I'd love the battery to be the problem, as I assume replacing it would be the simplest solution. I'm worried though that I might incur the expense and it makes no difference. A couple of people have mentioned that a battery can possibly seem ok when tested but still be faulty, by discharging too quickly. Maybe I need to pursue that, maybe even have a chat with the manager at ATS about it.

We're taking off at the end of August for several weeks, to Croatia and some of the Balkan countries, so I really hope I can get this problem sorted before then.

 

[Deleted member 5816]

This is a compressor fridge not a 3 way fridge

Alf

I believe you're incorrect about the fridge when operated on 12 volts.

Three way fridges are always wired so that the 12 volt feed is provided directly by the vehicle alternator ...

 

[Conroy]

OK so test voltage with fridge OFF

Turn fridge ON test voltage repeat the test every hour for say 5 hours do this in the daytime so you should be getting some solar charge.

record the readings

Alf

Thanks Alf, will do that. It was pouring down earlier but the sun's just come out and hopefully it will stay brighter for a few hours. I'll post the readings later this afternoon.

 

[Deleted member 5816]

Right so now we are talking about 2 different batteries, what make and size was the first battery. We have the second battery as a 110A one what make.
it is important to state all facts at the start of a thread requiring assistance not in dribs and drabs through the thread.

Alf

I should explain it was at lest a couple of years ago that the leisure battery was running really well, lasting days without hook-up or driving, and it was a different battery then. The one in now is only 12 months old.

I do have a multimeter and did some readings yesterday (see my posts to Fazerloz at 19.09 08.35). Do they give any indications?

The leisure battery does charge fine from driving. We can tell from the gauge on the PMS, which goes from a red light for lowest through 4 green lights up to highest, and of course by the fact the fridge then works fine, for a few hours anyway.

The fact is the electrical set-up is the same as it was when it worked fine, and as stated the battery is only 1 year old.

Re your post at 21.57: I must admit this is all very confusing to me. I think (from googling) the engine is Euro 3, but I don't know what difference this makes or if what you wrote is relevant to my van. Many thanks for your comments though.

 

[molly 2]

Not gt ,its run of the engine battery through a relay which is charged by the alt.

correct but mine is a smart regen alternator very often the battery drops to 12.2 with the engine running voltage sensing relays kick in about 13 volts so the leisure battery gets nothing untill the engine ECU decides to wack up the voltage , if on hook up the Battery charger charge's the engine to about 12 .6. then the ECU cuts the alternator out until engines battery drops to about 12.2 then shoots the voltage up to 15 volts when going down hill ( regen mode ) .I wonder who will be the first to it alternator motor to put some power into alternator to help drive the engine a bit like the old dynostarts .?

 

[AllanD]

Right so now we are talking about 2 different batteries, what make and size was the first battery. We have the second battery as a 110A one what make.
it is important to state all facts at the start of a thread requiring assistance not in dribs and drabs through the thread.

Alf

I was thinking along similar lines because I was unsure if ATS would supply leisure batteries and wondered if they have supplied a starter battery instead?

Sorry, just checked their website (which I should have done before posting), seemingly they do supply leisure batteries.

 

[Conroy]

Right so now we are talking about 2 different batteries, what make and size was the first battery. We have the second battery as a 110A one what make.
it is important to state all facts at the start of a thread requiring assistance not in dribs and drabs through the thread.

Alf

The current battery is a Platinum Leisure Plus 110 amps. Sorry, don't know the make of the previous battery but I'm fairly sure it was also a 110 amp one.

 

[harrow]

The current battery is a Platinum Leisure Plus 110 amps. Sorry, don't know the make of the previous battery but I'm fairly sure it was also a 110 amp one.

Try to borrow another battery so you can compare them.

 

[Deleted member 56601]

If you do have to replace the battery and you have the space, I would seriously consider a couple of these 6volt batteries
T-125 Trojan Battery Deep Cycle (T125) - Industrial Batteries - Trojan Batteries
They are not cheap, but will give you 240ah and with a 175w solar panel and 30a b2b charger. they run my compressor fridge 365 days a year .

 

[Conroy]

Try to borrow another battery so you can compare them.

I'm definitely going to try that, need to talk to my brother-in-law when he gets back from holiday in his van. He's more technically minded than me so should be able to help.

 

[Fazerloz]

One thing I do know from experience is that different battery manufacturers make vastly different quality of batteries. As said previously from batteries lasting as little as 6weeks to over 12mnths when overworked.

 

[Deleted member 5816]

Seems to be an Alpha battery with a 3 year guarantee, this may not be as good a battery as your last one.

There are many variables as to your battery condition, have you been discharging it bellow 12v on many occasions if so this will be taking its toll carry out the test we talked about and lets see the results.

Alf

The current battery is a Platinum Leisure Plus 110 amps. Sorry, don't know the make of the previous battery but I'm fairly sure it was also a 110 amp one.

 

[skippy]

Hi.
I have the same set up Waeco 110 + Webasto but 490 amps batteries .Sorry but your batt is to low spec ,another major forum swears by Varta ldf range but varta spec for this range low to moderate usage only.
Your fridge will take 50 amps daily without heating winter maybe 75 amps with heating this will quickly destroy your battery
after continuous use.
when I had my initial probs I was lucky enough to have my batteries tested by Yuasa factory close to me, they completed 20 drop tests down to 10.6 volts and showed me the results including amp hour rating. This was treated as an exercise by themselves my batteries were replaced as a result foc. My batteries are the pro spec range 6v x 4. Initial problem incorrect charging was relying on solar to charge installed sterling b-b to give initial boost.
I have 2200 watt solar this provides very little in winter but have just overhauled with victron mppt and changed wiring from parallel to series I guess time will tell if any difference .

 

[skippy]

Sorry don't be shocked should have been 200 watt solar.

 

[yorkslass]

That's interesting. So it could be some kind of fault that doesn't show up when tested in the standard way, which might explain why tests by 3 different people have not shown any problem. The question is, if it is indeed faulty how do I get ATS to change it under warranty if their test shows it as 'good'? Or maybe I will just have to buy another new one.

I would be interested to know if you find anything from your checking, if you don't mind.

My OH disconnected the batteries from the system and each other, we have four 84ah, then charged them separately. Checked 24 hrs later and seem to be ok. We think we probably overused them by just doing short trips, we have b2b and relied on that. Thinking about it, it was a stupid thing to do, but I'm claiming old age and a lot going on at the moment.The proof will be at Druridge, parked up for several days.

 

[stonedaddy]

Some handy info

This is quiet a good read on batteries.

Battery Technology Advances mean big savings and better batteries for Caravans/Motorhomes

.... Tom ....

 

[skippy]

As my previous reply Varta lfd starter light leisure use only for caravans - motorhomes as per Varta's own statement imho not suitable for 50 - 70 amps daily use,but still able to learn otherwise.