The Price of Processed

[delicagirl]

Hi. don't know if you watch Ray Meers at all but he did a programme think it was from Sweden, where he demonstrated how to remove the bones from a whole salmon. Took no time at all and looked a very quick and easy method. Can't see why it wouldn't work on other types of fish. Hope that helps.

The difference between removing bones from a fish fresh out of the water, and removing them from a fish which could be weeks old having been caught off Iceland on huge fish factories, and frozen/chilled till sale is chalk and cheese.

With a Really Fresh fish - usually the whole skeleton comes away in one piece and there is rarely the need for tweezers - the flavour is altogether more intense and the flesh softer and whiter and livelier somehow.....

 

[delicagirl]

"Originally Posted by sparrks
When people learn to eat the correct foods and eat what their body requires rather than what they can eat, then the obesity problem will disappear. "

losing a lot of weight is far more complex than folks imagine, and a lot of it is in the mind. However some of it is that the body changes its habits as it gets fatter and fatter. Many obese folks simply dont recognise the bodily sensations of feeling hungry or feeling full, as some of the bodily mechanism stop working as weight increases. So his double whammy leads to overeating.

the programme that helped me the most ran a counselling group every week - initially to identify why we learnt to use food inappropriately (food does not mend a broken heart, nor relieve boredom, nor dissipate anger).

Many of us were told

"eat whats on your plate, the african babies are dieing" - as if the two were connected in some immediate way.
"I've cooked all day to prepare this food and you wont eat it all" - emotional blackmail at its best.

There are many illogical things we were taught as children about food that stay with us as adults. WE need to change those messages.

Losing weight, and keeping it off, needs a head-change FOR LIFE. Its no good "going on a diet" - most of those who diet return to their old habits and the body then become even fatter. Those who see a weight loss programme as a permanent and complete life-style change, can, and do, look forward with positivity to the benefits of becoming well and fit again.

Learning to eat the correct food, and learning how much the body requires, is quite a long process to get right and needs perseverance. Calculating how much food to eat on an exercise day, and on a sedentary day can be tricky - but after a while it becomes second nature.

If i was asked what were the 3 most important things i learned - 1) stop buying elasticated waist clothes - 2) weigh at least twice a week - and 3) use a smaller plate - if you don't know you have put on a pound or two, you wont be able to nip it in the bud before it becomes a stone or two.

good luck everyone who is losing .... good on ya

 

[FULL TIMER]

I think forget sugar tax.

The government should make GOOD foods cheaper. :wave:

It's partly down to the government that we have this obesity problem going on, encouraging everyone to eat low fat this and low fat that and that other killer the dreaded margarine, most of the time the fat that is removed is replaced with sugar the less we allow the government to interfere with what we eat the better , I never touched margarine, have always had full fat milk, eggs,cheese and plenty of butter and very rarely add sugar to anything my cholesterol level is only 4.7, I wonder what it would have been if I had followed government advice.
After a recent illness a few weeks back caused by campylobacter I lost a stone in three days since then I've stopped drinking during the week, knocked crisps and chocolate on the head and just about lost another stone. Mind you I'm still just over 16.5 stone so still plenty more to lose. I reckon I'll have to cut down on the weekend sessions

 

[delicagirl]

It's partly down to the government that we have this obesity problem going on, encouraging everyone to eat low fat this and low fat that and that other killer the dreaded margarine, most of the time the fat that is removed is replaced with sugar the less we allow the government to interfere with what we eat the better , I never touched margarine, have always had full fat milk, eggs,cheese and plenty of butter and very rarely add sugar to anything my cholesterol level is only 4.7, I wonder what it would have been if I had followed government advice.
After a recent illness a few weeks back caused by campylobacter I lost a stone in three days since then I've stopped drinking during the week, knocked crisps and chocolate on the head and just about lost another stone. Mind you I'm still just over 16.5 stone so still plenty more to lose. I reckon I'll have to cut down on the weekend sessions

Obesity today may have something to do with government. But is is also down to the relentless, half-truthful massive marketing campaigns of "fast food" by the likes of macdonalds, other burger companies, chocolate companies and the overall increase in portion-size. The government saw fit to regulate cigarette advertising from the 1970's-80's and sales have gone down. If sugary foods adverts were similarly regulated this could help stop the young seeing quite so many seductive images around them.

The link between overweight and diabetes was reckonised in 1720's - so we can hardly blame Mrs May for 300 years of over-eating.....


The connection was made in 1720's between obesity and diabetes......

 

[yorkieowl]

I wish the daily intake was 4050 calories, I wouldn't be obese.

 

[yorkslass]

IMO, we a need change of direction, obviously starting at home, but being encouraged at school. All they seem to care about is academic achievement instead of teaching from a young age how to cook, basic nutrition and budgeting. To me, those are the basic building blocks of life, along with the 3Rs. I know this should start at home, but with a generation or so missing out on life lessons, mums working, and making crap food more affordable than fresh food, we need to start again. When I cook for my grandson, I let him decide what he wants on his plate. The only thing I insist on, is that he eats what he has chosen. This way he doesn't pile his plate but knows he can have more if he wants.

 

[delicagirl]

womens daily recommended calorie intake is 2000-3000 depending on the amount of exercise undertaken

 

[bellars]

Obviously calorie consumption exceeding calorie expenditure explains much (most?) of the obesity problem, but there are other factors. For example, there is a theory called the developmental (or foetal) orgins of adult disease (sometimes called the Barker hypothesis) that may help to explain some obesity and also the phenomenon that many will know. We probably all know someone who can eat what they like and are as thin as a rake, while others only have to look at a biscuit to put weight on. The theory goes that a foetus developing in the womb experiences the environment via its mother's blood, if the mother is pourly nourished in terms of vitamins, minerals, protein, etc then the foetus "programmes" its metabolism to expect a nutritionally-poor environment when it's born. Since most now live in a nutritionally-rich environment but many have the "wrong" metabolism that maximises the efficiency with which it uses calories leading to weight gain.

Perhaps the best evidence to support this theory comes from people that were born to mothers who experienced the Dutch Hunger Winter in 1944-45 (parts of Holland experienced a famine as a result of a Nazi blockade). These people have a greater incidence of metabolic diseases including obesity, diabetes, CVD, etc.

 

[bellars]

Not disputing that (I did state it at the start of my post) but I was just presenting a scientific theory that explains some obesity and maybe contributes to the dramatic rise in childhood obesity i.e. an increase in obese mums with a poor diet leads to an increase in metabolically compromised children. I wasn't providing an excuse to be fat but may be providing some understanding of why some people struggle with their weight. After all, an understanding of (some of) the physiological mechanisms behind obesity may lead to improved treatments.

For example, many of the subjects from the dutch hunger winter have siblings born when the mum wasn't nutritionally-compromised and therefore don't suffer the obesity and health consequences yet probably have very similar diets to their less fortunate siblings. What you're saying is that their problems are their fault. I'm suggesting that isn't fair.

 

[maingate]

We had one of our Grandsons staying with us for a few months last year because he had fallen out with his Mother (our Sons ex Wife). He was always podgy and she cannot cook very well.

In that time he was with us, his body shape altered a lot as he also joined a Gym (although he did not go mad with his training). It seems it had been his diet that had been affecting his shape and general fitness. He is back home but maintains a more healthy diet rather than depend on what his Mother dishes up.

The type of exercise can affect body shape as well. My Son was always fit and enjoyed running but he also took up Boxing. It improved his upper body strength trememdously and he developed more muscle tone.

There again, diet is not everything. I had a very poor diet at the same time as working 100+ of physical work every week. I had muscles in my spit and a 6 pack to be jealous of. Sadly, the 6 pack is now a small barrel. :sad:

 

[Obanboy666]

Well you must have a physic like mr Universe if 6'2" and 105kg. You may look ok but you cannot see the internal fat around organs etc. You mention your son at 80kg @ 6' all muscle etc and fit. So your 2" height advantage over your son is according to you ok to carry an extra 25kg, I don't think so !
You are making excuses, I was 15 1/2 stone @ 5'10". Now 11 1/2 stone. Feel much healthier, arthritic knees much improved etc, etc.
Lose a couple of stone, you'll much better.

 

[Channa]

IMO, we a need change of direction, obviously starting at home, but being encouraged at school. All they seem to care about is academic achievement instead of teaching from a young age how to cook, basic nutrition and budgeting. To me, those are the basic building blocks of life, along with the 3Rs. I know this should start at home, but with a generation or so missing out on life lessons, mums working, and making crap food more affordable than fresh food, we need to start again. When I cook for my grandson, I let him decide what he wants on his plate. The only thing I insist on, is that he eats what he has chosen. This way he doesn't pile his plate but knows he can have more if he wants.

I wanted to give two likes for this I think you are bang on the nail, I couldn't agree more.

There seems to be a lost generation of younger people whom are incapable of cooking other than re heating pre prepared meals in a microwave. I find that really sad.

Everything in moderation in my mind is ok, there seems to be 101 reasons psychological, poor lifestyle etc lack of exercise etc as to why people put weight on.
Bellars sharing of the foetal theory is interesting and makes sense to me.

To change things I agree it ideally starts at home, but a lot of homes don't have the skillset so it needs to be schools. It should be a compulsory subject from a very young age. Younger children don't seem scared making mistakes and that's always a good thing when learning

Channa

 

[yorkieowl]

My other half is 6'3" 83-85kg and is still no stick insect, he isn't 'fat' either mind but could easily lose another 5kg, and not be too skinny, but as he is one that eats what he wants, when he wants his current weight is right for him, he would be starving all the time if he lost anymore. When we cut out all processed, no bread, no processed meats (sausages etc), limited our intake of wholemeal pasta, no cereals etc I still struggled to get below 14 stone, and I didn't sit around all day, but I still had a reasonably big appetite, so to lose more I would have had to go hungry. (I did the filling up with veg so that didn't work).

 

[trevskoda]

David you are not doing to bad for 72 as the gray cells are working and you can get up each morning to a nice lass,what else could you ask for,remember to be good to your son for it is he who will be picking your care home.

 

[Obanboy666]

You are doing better than me ! I carried 6 x 25kgs of coal in yesterday and to be honest I was all aches and pains this morning.
I agree the bmi is just a guide, take me for example. No one could believe I was 15 1/2 stone, I carried it well, my mother used to say I was heavy boned ? God knows where that one comes from lol.

 

[trevskoda]

Ok so i know about the porky over eaters but im as fit as a fiddle and can carry a car engine ,so what i have had 3 minor strokes and now there sending me for the tread mill to test hart.
My doctor who play ruger and does the belfast marathon & others has just had a triple bypass,50% is the dna from parents and back further.
Mind you this is no excuse for what i see going into folks shopping trols in asda/tesco,why do they require 10 bottles of coke 2 cartons of bear ,vodka, wine and the compulsory carton of fags and a very small amount of food which is mostly package crap as they wheeze there way on the dla walking stick to the c/out.

 

[big tom]

None of this applies to people born in late 30’s early 40’s you ate what you were given no other option leave any and it was before you at the next meal, I was twelve when I came of the ration book ,another thing that we were told later on was always leave the table when you could eat more, I suppose an upbringing like this lead me to think food was a necessity rather than to be enjoyed but when I married things changed for the better, we have just had our Golden Wedding and I can honestly say I have never complained about my food but that could be put down to my wife being a good cook, our upbringings were similar so food is not wasted, at seventy six I have never been overweight and exercise regularly twelve miles every other day on my bike if the weather is bad I have a turbo trainer in the garage for the bike, I don’t carry my bike with the van I go walking instead, each year I fit a big one (to me) this was Helvellyn via Striding Edge return Swirral Edge this year, I left Green side camp site at 4.30 am to be on my own and enjoy the solitary. On the alcohol 2/3 pints most nights sometimes Red Wine in the winter a tot of Captain Morgan before I go out. Being twelve miles from the nearest town solves the fast food problem.

 

[trevskoda]

None of this applies to people born in late 30’s early 40’s you ate what you were given no other option leave any and it was before you at the next meal, I was twelve when I came of the ration book ,another thing that we were told later on was always leave the table when you could eat more, I suppose an upbringing like this lead me to think food was a necessity rather than to be enjoyed but when I married things changed for the better, we have just had our Golden Wedding and I can honestly say I have never complained about my food but that could be put down to my wife being a good cook, our upbringings were similar so food is not wasted, at seventy six I have never been overweight and exercise regularly twelve miles every other day on my bike if the weather is bad I have a turbo trainer in the garage for the bike, I don’t carry my bike with the van I go walking instead, each year I fit a big one (to me) this was Helvellyn via Striding Edge return Swirral Edge this year, I left Green side camp site at 4.30 am to be on my own and enjoy the solitary. On the alcohol 2/3 pints most nights sometimes Red Wine in the winter a tot of Captain Morgan before I go out. Being twelve miles from the nearest town solves the fast food problem.

Medical fact if you drinking more than 3 pints a week then you are classed as a alco and should seek help,my mate sinks at least 16 pints a night,me 2 in last year.

 

[bellars]

I can provide lots of references supporting the validity of the science, would you like to read more? As an (ex-)scientist evidence is THE most important thing to me.

I agree, excess food for a metabollically compromised child is, in my opinion, clearly more dangerous but the point is how do you recognise a "metabolically compromised child" before it's too late?

 

[bellars]

You may look ok but you cannot see the internal fat around organs etc. .

Nail on head! Visceral fat (that around organs) is significantly more metabolically active, pumping out inflammatory molecules such as TNF and interleukins, which promote chronic diseases such as CVD, cancer, etc, compared with subcutaneous fat, which is more benign. Exercise preferentially targets visceral fat.