HYDROGEN ASSIST for Petrol or Diesel

Firefox said:
All these different HHO schemes are basically the same construction. You use current from the engine to separate hydrogen and oxygen from water.

At the start they claimed the alternator was spinning freely anyway and therefore it was "free" electricity. That was quickly dismissed, so they turned to other "explanations".

30% fuel savings are frequently claimed. At such huge levels it shouldn't make a big difference as to the construction of the kit. You will surely see some saving regardless of the manufacturer of the kit. The fact is that no savings have been properly verified on any kit.

Instead of trying to prove efficiency yourself, take the vehicle on a rolling road. Conduct before and after tests and get everything scientifically measured. Nobody has ever done this successfully with an HHO kit. They all rely on anecdotal observations or home-made fuel tests. Take it on a rolling road, publish power and fuel data, and you will be the first!
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My, you do have a bee in your bonnet over this, first of all the solution is an electrolyte, not plain water, and just like a lead acid battery you top up with water (when a battery gasses, that is hydrogen due to the cracking of the water, the acid isn't depleted ) all I am doing is reporting as I find with the tools and methods I have at my disposal, to find a rolling road to take my lump GVWR 3955kg wouldn't be easy, not to mention the cost (buy a lot of fuel) but if you can find me one and are prepared to pay for it, I would be more than happy to have it tested. (would make the fine tuning a lot simpler also):)
 
K9d said:
An ICE is a series of "bombs" detonating to make power, if that bomb is power by petrol or Hydrogen makes no difference its still an explosion, Hydrogen powered cars are more than viable its just finding a way of extracting the Hydrogen that is the stumbling block. As for HHO systems, physics tells us you can't create energy only convert it from one form to another, this to me is where the claims for the system falls down.
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Tell me, where has anyone claimed, suggested, or hinted to CREATING energy.
What is being achieved is the cracking of a small amount of water into Hydrogen and Oxygen, the small amount of gas is fed into the air intake, this in turn improves the efficiency of your existing fuel burn hence "Hydrogen Assist".
Extracting Hydrogen isn't the stumbling block, it is the amount of energy input V energy output that is the problem.
 
In practical situation, because of the large difference on specific gravity of the three gases mentioned, assuming the figure is kg of gas at STP, the kJ/kg figures aren't all that useful.

Adding diesel and petrol into the discussion really suggests that kJ/Litre of liquid might be a useful comparison since they are all liquids as we fill the tank. (And we buy those four fuels by the litre, not by the kg) With hydrogen, since it is never a liquid, perhaps we could use kJ/Litre of volume of the tank with the contents at 3000psi (or whatever it is) but realising that the contents are not actually a liquid.

Or perhaps even better, kJ/$
 
ColinD said:
Tell me, where has anyone claimed, suggested, or hinted to CREATING energy.
What is being achieved is the cracking of a small amount of water into Hydrogen and Oxygen, the small amount of gas is fed into the air intake, this in turn improves the efficiency of your existing fuel burn hence "Hydrogen Assist".
Extracting Hydrogen isn't the stumbling block, it is the amount of energy input V energy output that is the problem.
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I think your misinterpreting my post, my point about producing Hydrogen is on a commercial scale, not the chemistry set under your bonnet.
As for the CREATING energy bit, it seems your a bit sensitive, I wasn't referring to your system I talking basic physics, energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be converted from one form to another. So I suggest you climb off your soapbox and realise not everything is about you.
 
is nobody looking at hydrogen as a replacement for heavy battery powered electric cars?

surely instead of lugging heavy batteries arround and recharging it would make more sense to use the leccy that you would use to charge the batteries to make hydrogen to run an ic engne on.

we could all have a hydrogen plant in the garage powered by self generted solar or wind leccy.....free, carbon free motoring, and you could have a network of hydrogen refueling points for people who couldnt make their own or run out a long way from home..
the ability to tank store hydrogen gets arround the variability in the leccy supply with the weather.

how big a garage roof would i need to produce solar power to produce hydrogen to run a medium sized car for say a hundred mles a week.
 
K9d said:
I think your misinterpreting my post, my point about producing Hydrogen is on a commercial scale, not the chemistry set under your bonnet.
As for the CREATING energy bit, it seems your a bit sensitive, I wasn't referring to your system I talking basic physics, energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be converted from one form to another. So I suggest you climb off your soapbox and realise not everything is about you.
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Forgive me for my misunderstanding from the extract below, as this thread is about these systems in vehicles I thought we were talking about the same thing.

K9d said:
As for HHO systems, physics tells us you can't create energy only convert it from one form to another, this to me is where the claims for the system falls down.
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I think the cost involved would outweigh any benefits, also wasn't there a thread recently about the problems with diesels regarding emissions.
 
lol...no i didnt i CHOSE to read it all and CHOSE to have an open mind. MY choice....your choice not to believe. No physics degree needed here. I asked on this forum for suggestions of how i could get more ommphh. A person very kindly told me of this option that works for him. What do you want me to do...call him a liar? ask for pages of data and rolling road reports?.The gentleman was trying to help me with no financial gain to himself. The mpg figures dont bother me as I wont be able to do a test as i have just bought the van.So the purpose of this was to give it more grunt. If it works.....great...if not....then back to the drawing board.Its really not a problem.
Ohhh and i wont be driving off the edge of the world either
 
K9d said:
So you chose to ignore the bit that said "While it's true that at least 99% of revolutionary announcements from the fringes of science are just as bogus as they seem" then.
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You cant clip a bit of a quote and make it fit your beliefs...here is what was actually written includin what you chose to ignoe
"
While it's true that at least 99% of revolutionary announcements from the fringes of science are just as bogus as they seem, we cannot dismiss every one of them without investigation. If we do, then we'll certainly take our place among the ranks of scoffers who accidentally helped delay numbers of major scientific discoveries throughout history. Beware, for many discoveries such as powered flight and drifting continents today only appear sane and acceptable because we have such powerfulhindsight. These same advancements were seen as obviously a bunch of disgusting lunatic garbage during the years they were first discovered. "
 
Tezza said:
You cant clip a bit of a quote and make it fit your beliefs...here is what was actually written includin what you chose to ignoe
"
While it's true that at least 99% of revolutionary announcements from the fringes of science are just as bogus as they seem, we cannot dismiss every one of them without investigation. If we do, then we'll certainly take our place among the ranks of scoffers who accidentally helped delay numbers of major scientific discoveries throughout history. Beware, for many discoveries such as powered flight and drifting continents today only appear sane and acceptable because we have such powerfulhindsight. These same advancements were seen as obviously a bunch of disgusting lunatic garbage during the years they were first discovered. "
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I'd like to see you as a dog with a bone, but unfortunately the image I have is a baby with a rattle.

I don't care in the slightest if you want to spend your money on snake oil, maybe the placebo effect will be worth it for you.
As for quoting what suit my needs, surely you did that first by quoting the article but ignoring the bits you didn't like, i.e. 99% is rubbish.
I suggest you spend less time getting your knickers in a twist all the time and a bit more time learning the basics of the English language and spelling. :)
 
here we go again...lose an argument so start attacking the person. Its ok for you to have a view?...but not me? and if im a child with a rattle....then your the one who has thrown his out and having a tantrum. Never attacked you or called you a name or got personal. But hey ho....guss waat. your totally insignicant in my life. And do i care about spelling????hmm let me think...if being able to spell makes me like you....well i know who i would rather be.
 
Tbear said:
Complete layman here but can I just point out a bit of schoolboy science. Hydrogen burns in air. Mix Hydrogen with air and burning it is called exploding a bomb, which is why I think we are not driving Hydrogen powered cars. May not be a good idea to try and do a DIY kit if anyone is thinking of it. :)

Richard
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so is petrol.
 
I wasn't aware there was even an argument, but if there is its not relevant to this thread, so I will leave you to your snake oil and hope you enjoy the benefits.
 
i was happy reading this thread untill fight night begain,but as a self tought fitter engineer grease monkey etc i have seen all these before with wild claims stp redex fuel line magnets <tried on spitfires> pellets in tanks slick 50 molyslip and the list goes on , most tested in labs and not one worked nor have i got any to work. It takes a mind blowing amount of energy extracted from mother earth in all forms just to get any vech car van bus etc to tramp the earth,and if i ever find one that works i will be posting from a much hotter climate than my b-ll freezing bone shaking teath chatering workshop. :wave:
 
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