Motorhome technology trends

[Chasn]

Over the years certain developments in technology have led to changes in motorhome systems. The availability of LED lighting has made a big difference in energy consumption. Modern inverters have enabled use of 240v AC equipment. This has put more load on the electrical system challenging the capabilities of deep cycle lead acid batteries. The change to LFP lithium batteries has now become economic. I recently converted to a 600Ah LFP system for less than £600. The only extras on top of that was to upgrade the mains charger and fit a Victron Orion charger to speed up charging on the move.
Having made this change 240v AC kitchen items such as air fryer, electric kettle and toaster are easy choices to make.
The reason for this thread is to highlight the benefits for those of us that wild camp and in particular to point out that the next logical step is to convert to a compressor fridge. These use about half the power consumption as a three way fridge when it is on electric and also is only working for about half of the time. With the capabilities of LFP batteries the need for gas power whilst wild camping has reduced sufficiently such that a compressor fridge has become the logical choice. It is now possible to buy compressor fridges for less than £250 so the turning point has now arrived to move away from the need for a gas operated fridge when wild camping. It is also a greener alternative and their reliability is much better. The three way fridge has always had variable reliability when running on gas. The performance of compressor fridges in hot weather is also much better. All these advantages made this upgrade compelling.

 

[Boris7]

Rob will be along in no time

 

[Robmac]

Rob will be along in no time

Bet he ain't got a 240V Doughnut maker in his van though Kev?

(Mind you, nor have I).

 

[Boris7]

I got home from Spain / Portugal this morning Rob (early due to a mates death) and spent a few hours trying to work out what had gone wrong with my inverter etc.

The OP is right, but I wonder if its all a little bit too early. (as you maybe mate)

I do have a waffle maker in my van mind I may even take it out of the box one day.

 

[wildebus]

Bet he ain't got a 240V Doughnut maker in his van though Kev?

(Mind you, nor have I).

I am toying with the idea of an electric deep fat fryer could make loads of doughnuts with one of those

 

[Robmac]

I am toying with the idea of an electric deep fat fryer could make loads of doughnuts with one of those

Sir, I like the cut of your jib!

 

[Robmac]

I got home from Spain / Portugal this morning Rob (early due to a mates death) and spent a few hours trying to work out what had gone wrong with my inverter etc.

The OP is right, but I wonder if its all a little bit too early. (as you maybe mate)

I do have a waffle maker in my van mind I may even take it out of the box one day.

I know what you mean Kev, but I felt the time was right and the kit should outlast me.

(sorry about your mate, mate)

 

[trevskoda]

I do have a waffle maker in my van mind I may even take it out of the box one day.

Dont waffle to use, we know you wont.

 

[r4dent]

I agree that for someone who wild camps 100% of the time, the move to only 12v power with large storage /solar/ inverter is an attractive proposition.

For someone who uses commercial sites with EHU 100% of the time, reliance of 230v with a battery charger is attractive.

For anyone who uses a variety of locations energy provision is more of a grey area.

"To each according to his needs" K.Marx.

 

[Thistle]

@Chasn
it’s nothing new running a compressor fridge I’ve never had anything other than 230v AC fridges in my vans, the extra benefit is they are a fraction of the price of 12v equivalents.
The Iveco in my Avatar had one from new and was still working perfectly ok 15 years later

 

[Fisherman]

The problem now is manufacturers are still putting out vans with what are in effect obsolete batteries. Lithium batteries are not that much more expensive than lead. As a matter of fact in the long term they are actually cheaper. When your lead batteries are finished lithium batteries will still have many years of use left.
When we start to see vans being delivered with lithium batteries as standard, that’s when things will start to change.

Soon 2-300ah lithium batteries with inverters, diesel heaters, compressor fridges, induction hobs, and an alternative to gas ovens will become the norm.
If you look at the advantages in terms of costs, weight, availability of fuel, safety, and storage space it’s a no brainer. The technology is already here to do away with gas, but our manufacturers are simply more interested in profit. And with advances in technology in the next few years batteries will get smaller, and lighter, making this transformation even more viable than it currently is today. Rapido already supply vans to their European market with the only gas appliance being a gas hob.

 

[Thistle]

I’ve pondered going all electric in the Iveco I am presently converting, it came with an appropriately wired 3000VA Victron Multiplus so can sustain its max of 2.5kw

It’s 12v though and for me running extremely high loads at 12v isn’t ideal, considering what it’s original role was it’s a shame the van wasn’t built using 24 or better still 48v.

We have an 800w immersion, microwave, portable 2 ring induction hob, mains fridge already

But an induction hob on its own wouldn’t do it for us we still need and regularly use an oven so that remains gas.

 

[wildebus]

The problem now is manufacturers are still putting out vans with what are in effect obsolete batteries. Lithium batteries are not that much more expensive than lead. As a matter of fact in the long term they are actually cheaper. When your lead batteries are finished lithium batteries will still have many years of use left.
When we start to see vans being delivered with lithium batteries as standard, that’s when things will start to change.

Soon 2-300ah lithium batteries with inverters, diesel heaters, compressor fridges, induction hobs, and an alternative to gas ovens will become the norm.
If you look at the advantages in terms of costs, weight, availability of fuel, safety, and storage space it’s a no brainer. The technology is already here to do away with gas, but our manufacturers are simply more interested in profit. And with advances in technology in the next few years batteries will get smaller, and lighter, making this transformation even more viable than it currently is today. Rapido already supply vans to their European market with the only gas appliance being a gas hob.

I think the catalyst towards your vision will be when EV campers start to appear, and the 'Drive Batteries' are also used for Leisure Services - a 4000kWh Leisure Battery is less than a 10th of the size of the typical EV battery bank, so using that battery for leisure purposes as well makes more sense than a separate dedicated one.
Then with the higher voltage of an EV Battery Bank, there is the potential for more efficient inverter use to provide AC for cooking, refrigeration and indeed heating, with gas bottles and applicances disappearing (the space of the bottles/tanks available for storage to replace space taken by the EV battery bank).

How this would bode for off-grid wild camping is another matter. B2Bs will of course be defunct. I suppose the use of fast-charger points would be the thing. Maybe someone with foresight could combine Motorhome service points with fast charging points so you have an all-in-one stop? Situate them in places you want to encourage visitors and you have a 'destination' location with a tourist knock-on effect.

 

[Robmac]

But an induction hob on its own wouldn’t do it for us we still need and regularly use an oven so that remains gas.

Air Fryers are so good now and can be used for most cooking situations. Also much quicker than a conventional oven.

 

[Fisherman]

R

I think the catalyst towards your vision will be when EV campers start to appear, and the 'Drive Batteries' are also used for Leisure Services - a 4000kWh Leisure Battery is less than a 10th of the size of the typical EV battery bank, so using that battery for leisure purposes as well makes more sense than a separate dedicated one.
Then with the higher voltage of an EV Battery Bank, there is the potential for more efficient inverter use to provide AC for cooking, refrigeration and indeed heating, with gas bottles and applicances disappearing (the space of the bottles/tanks available for storage to replace space taken by the EV battery bank).

How this would bode for off-grid wild camping is another matter. B2Bs will of course be defunct. I suppose the use of fast-charger points would be the thing. Maybe someone with foresight could combine Motorhome service points with fast charging points so you have an all-in-one stop? Situate them in places you want to encourage visitors and you have a 'destination' location with a tourist knock-on effect.

obviously David, but this won’t happen for some time yet. As you say the higher voltage of around 90-100v will reduce dramatically resistance allowing much better inversion with much lower amperage cabling.
The only hurdle currently for some will be the loss of a gas oven. But compromise a bit on say an air fryer would take care of this.
Sadly I won’t be around driving a Moho when all of this takes place, but eventually one day gas will be history.

 

[Robmac]

I think the catalyst towards your vision will be when EV campers start to appear, and the 'Drive Batteries' are also used for Leisure Services - a 4000kWh Leisure Battery is less than a 10th of the size of the typical EV battery bank, so using that battery for leisure purposes as well makes more sense than a separate dedicated one.
Then with the higher voltage of an EV Battery Bank, there is the potential for more efficient inverter use to provide AC for cooking, refrigeration and indeed heating, with gas bottles and applicances disappearing (the space of the bottles/tanks available for storage to replace space taken by the EV battery bank).

How this would bode for off-grid wild camping is another matter. B2Bs will of course be defunct. I suppose the use of fast-charger points would be the thing. Maybe someone with foresight could combine Motorhome service points with fast charging points so you have an all-in-one stop? Situate them in places you want to encourage visitors and you have a 'destination' location with a tourist knock-on effect.

Only problem with that I can see is that it would make motorhoming exclusive to the wealthy due to the cost, firstly of having to afford a brand new motorhome, secondly as things stand even such a base EV would be prohibitively expensive, and thirdly I would imagine that ICE motorhoming would be taxed to the hilt to 'encourage' people to go EV.

Who knows how things may develop though?

 

[Nabsim]

On Ev vans I have a question. Has anyone yet seen EV charging points that will allow a decent sized EV panel van to fit in a bay? I don't see lots of charging points but the only ones I have seen will accommodate cars and something like an ID Buzz is it?

Only other thing I would say in the original post it infers going all electric is 'greener' than gas. I may be wrong but I think the only lpg/gas we produce these days is bio-gas isn't it? Normal petroleum based LPG is a by product of the refining process so will exist as long as fossil fuels are refined. From a green point of view you could use green gas now if you so desired.

 

[Nabsim]

Only problem with that I can see is that it would make motorhoming exclusive to the wealthy due to the cost, firstly of having to afford a brand new motorhome, secondly as things stand even such a base EV would be prohibitively expensive, and thirdly I would imagine that ICE motorhoming would be taxed to the hilt to 'encourage' people to go EV.

Who knows how things may develop though?

Rob how is your son in law getting on with his Sprinter Ev conversion? Does it fit in normal public charge pints?

 

[Robmac]

Rob how is your son in law getting on with his Sprinter Ev conversion? Does it fit in normal public charge pints?

It does Neil.

It's my nephew, I went to see it the other day and he has built in the bed and sofa so far. He is buying a galley module and making everything easily removeable to transfer to a 4x4 Diesel van he plans to buy in January. He's not installing any electrics but plans to run everything off of a Jackery and EHU.

It's a lovely van but not enough range so he only plans to do local sites until he sells it next year.

 

[Nabsim]

It does Neil.

It's my nephew, I went to see it the other day and he has built in the bed and sofa so far. He is buying a galley module and making everything easily removeable to transfer to a 4x4 Diesel van he plans to buy in January. He's not installing any electrics but plans to run everything off of a Jackery and EHU.

It's a lovely van but not enough range so he only plans to do local sites until he sells it next year.

When I used to smoke and had the XS1100 it did 100 miles before hitting reserve. That was ideal as I fuelled up and had a smoke before setting off again. Couldn't they adopt a similar strategy for recharging? Different pace of life