Freestanding refillable LPG bottles.

[Norfolk NewBoy]

12v with a Dometic fridge only maintains the status quo short term and does not refrigerate as such.

Would you care to explain this please?

My 240V fridge element is approx 130W and hence draws approx 0.5A
My 12V fridge element is approx 130W and hence draws approx 11A.
Whilst driving with 12V provision, the fridge will drop in temperature quite satisfactorily: it's providing an almost identical input to the mains!

HOWEVER, when I had a problem with the fridge not cooling on 240V the senior technician and the owner of the dealership ("I served my apprenticeship repairing fridges like yours so I know what I'm talking about") which I took it to tried to persuade me that the mains supply needed 10A and it was a supply problem.
Eventually they discovered that their technician hadn't replaced the blade connector properly: problem solved

Gordon

 

[Moped]

Something for you to consider.

I have a refillable LPG (via an external point) and a Calor.
This reduced the set up costs because I only purchased one refillable.
It also means I can get gas if either is available.

I use the LPG as the default and only switch to Calor if I'm out f LPG and can't buy any.
(In 8 years this has happened once, on a Sunday in the middle of Spain)

Occasionally I will use the Calor until it is empty, and then change the bottle just because!

We now have the same set up but using the Gaslow filler point and local gas cylinder connection hose. We use calor for BBQ cooking so it made sense to be able to hook it up to our van in emergencies.

The very limited number of U.K. LPG stations in areas that we travel to encouraged me to facilitate this. And we can now use Spanish gas bottles which, unlike Calor, work out at almost the same price per litre as Spanish refillable.

The only issue we have with this extra Calor bottle was that the habitation service report stated that we had a gas bottle onboard that was not in an LPG storage locker.

 

[Moped]

Would you care to explain this please?

My 240V fridge element is approx 130W and hence draws approx 0.5A
My 12V fridge element is approx 130W and hence draws approx 11A.
Whilst driving with 12V provision, the fridge will drop in temperature quite satisfactorily: it's providing an almost identical input to the mains!

HOWEVER, when I had a problem with the fridge not cooling on 240V the senior technician and the owner of the dealership ("I served my apprenticeship repairing fridges like yours so I know what I'm talking about") which I took it to tried to persuade me that the mains supply needed 10A and it was a supply problem.
Eventually they discovered that their technician hadn't replaced the blade connector properly: problem solved

Gordon

We only use the 12v setting when driving (which it automatically switches to) and the manual suggests that in this mode the fridge acts like a cool box rather that a refrigerator. On a long drive the freezer box does thaw.

We do have a Smart alternator which may have something to do with this.

Must admit never used 12v when parked up. It’s either gas or 240v hook up. So the fact 12v will power a fridge normally, all be it with significant battery drain so for a short period only, is something that I was not aware of so apologies for this.

 

[r4dent]

12v with a Dometic fridge only maintains the status quo short term and does not refrigerate as such.

Would you care to explain this please?

My 240V fridge element is approx 130W and hence draws approx 0.5A
My 12V fridge element is approx 130W and hence draws approx 11A.
Whilst driving with 12V provision, the fridge will drop in temperature quite satisfactorily: it's providing an almost identical input to the mains!

Gordon,

I think Moped is referring to an absorption fridge on which 12v only maintains the temperature, and that your fridge is a compressor where 12v is as effective as 240v.

Different beasts entirely.

 

[Boris7]

Always handy to have a smaller back up cylinder if the main one empties. At least with refillable you can top up a part full cylinder whereas with exchange human nature dictates that this won’t happen until the cylinder is empty which inevitably happens in the middle of the night!

And then, as you say, there is the European issue with different bottles if you use exchange and not refillable.

We use gas for refrigeration, cooking and heating. Inverter and solar use for heating is realistically impossible and to rely on it for refrigeration is high risk with its consistent draw and 12v with a Dometic fridge only maintains the status quo short term and does not refrigerate as such. But we don’t have a geny.

Unless you have the generator on most cold nights how do you manage using only 30kg of gas over 3 years?

And how do you not pay for petrol the geny uses? This appears to be a unique situation and a one off not available to 99.99% of van users.

Just curious.

Much of the time I’m at motorsport events with pit access, so free petrol is not an issue, I carry a 5litre can (exposafe) as well as a 1 litre filling can. Any remaining fuel goes into a Jerry can once home.

I also have 400ah lithium and 450w solar, plus a 3kw inverter wired in so all sockets are permanently live.

In winter I put an oil filled electric radiator in the bedroom and leave the door to the bathroom open works a treat and uses very little power.

Although moving into the living/kitchen area can be a shock.

I also carry an EcoFlow.

 

[colinm]

I should note I was considering changing one bottle and keeping a 13kg Calor as backup, the single port bottle with full set of adaptors is about £173, I didn't want to mod this van as it might get changed 'soon' and the bottle would get transferred to new van. I'll investigate a two port bottle and using the gas dropout if the filler can be fitted in a safe position.

 

[Nabsim]

I should note I was considering changing one bottle and keeping a 13kg Calor as backup, the single port bottle with full set of adaptors is about £173, I didn't want to mod this van as it might get changed 'soon' and the bottle would get transferred to new van. I'll investigate a two port bottle and using the gas dropout if the filler can be fitted in a safe position.

You can get a Gas Bank bottle that can either have a direct fill adapter left in place or piped to external fill point permanently. Visually they look the same as a SafeFill bottle until you check valves. They don’t have crash safe valves though so should turn off when travelling. Extremely light. Charlie has some in, or did when I got mine

 

[colinm]

You can get a Gas Bank bottle that can either have a direct fill adapter left in place or piped to external fill point permanently. Visually they look the same as a SafeFill bottle until you check valves. They don’t have crash safe valves though so should turn off when travelling. Extremely light. Charlie has some in, or did when I got mine

Have been looking at these and they do say they have excess flow valves which I took to mean some form of crash safe.

 

[Fazerloz]

Gordon,

I think Moped is referring to an absorption fridge on which 12v only maintains the temperature, and that your fridge is a compressor where 12v is as effective as 240v.

Different beasts entirely.

How can Gordons be a comp fridge if he says his fridge has 130w elements in which would indicate it to be a absorption fridge., or am I reading this wrong.

 

[colinm]

Back in the day 3 way fridges had little or no controls on 12v, most now work just as well on 12v as any other source, this would need to be checked on whatever model you have.

 

[Nabsim]

Have been looking at these and they do say they have excess flow valves which I took to mean some form of crash safe.

Hmmmm, will have to double check what mine is then, may be another make. My memory is not brilliant lol

 

[colinm]

Hmmmm, will have to double check what mine is then, may be another make. My memory is not brilliant lol

I've sent them a query on it, different websites show different info.

 

[Nabsim]

I've sent them a query on it, different websites show different info.

Just double checked, mine is a composite bottle but not a Gas Bank bottle. I have the multivalve with 80% fill protection but not crash safe on mine. I didn’t realise how many different composite bottles there were in red and grey lol

 

[Norfolk NewBoy]

How can Gordons be a comp fridge if he says his fridge has 130w elements in which would indicate it to be a absorption fridge., or am I reading this wrong.

I knew what he meant!

Gordon

 

[r4dent]

Back in the day 3 way fridges had little or no controls on 12v, most now work just as well on 12v as any other source, this would need to be checked on whatever model you have.

Didn't know that, a definite step in the right direction.
Just shows how things are changing, and that we shouldn't assume that other peoples stuff is the same as ours.

The fridge freezer on my current MoHo (2015 Bailey) is non AES and the 12v just maintains.
My previous MoHo (2006 Burstner) had an AES fridge (but I never used auto) and the 12v was the same

Got me thinking about my first caravan back in 1973. A lunar 10 foot 4 berth, max loaded weight 12cwt; towed behind a 1300cc Escort mk1.

Good spec for the era ....Gas light / gas tap for a free standing fire with no flue / two gas rings and a grill but no oven / bucket toilet which stood in the doorway / cold water pumped by a foot pump to the only tap (when the van is rocking I'm filling the kettle)
But .....No 230v / No fridge / No microwave. / No hot water / No shower / single glazed glass windows / manual operation to stop the over run brakes working when you reversed / No TV aerial / No 12v sockets / No radio / No clock (Hurray!)

When I was working away for 6 weeks I installed a 12v socket and we purchased a 10 inch B&W TV which flattened the car battery in a couple of hours and a "rabbit's ears" aerial.
The routine for dealing with flat batteries was simple. First thing in the morning the campers would get together and bump start each car in turn.

Those were the days.

 

[Robmac]

cold water pumped by a foot pump to the only tap (when the van is rocking I'm filling the kettle)

 

[trevskoda]

Didn't know that, a definite step in the right direction.
Just shows how things are changing, and that we shouldn't assume that other peoples stuff is the same as ours.

The fridge freezer on my current MoHo (2015 Bailey) is non AES and the 12v just maintains.
My previous MoHo (2006 Burstner) had an AES fridge (but I never used auto) and the 12v was the same

Got me thinking about my first caravan back in 1973. A lunar 10 foot 4 berth, max loaded weight 12cwt; towed behind a 1300cc Escort mk1.

Good spec for the era ....Gas light / gas tap for a free standing fire with no flue / two gas rings and a grill but no oven / bucket toilet which stood in the doorway / cold water pumped by a foot pump to the only tap (when the van is rocking I'm filling the kettle)
But .....No 230v / No fridge / No microwave. / No hot water / No shower / single glazed glass windows / manual operation to stop the over run brakes working when you reversed / No TV aerial / No 12v sockets / No radio / No clock (Hurray!)

When I was working away for 6 weeks I installed a 12v socket and we purchased a 10 inch B&W TV which flattened the car battery in a couple of hours and a "rabbit's ears" aerial.
The routine for dealing with flat batteries was simple. First thing in the morning the campers would get together and bump start each car in turn.

Those were the days.

Rabbits ears aerial, im sure that was a haire rasing event, i found that very bunny.

 

[Boxerfrogs]

For me they make no sense, had the van 3.5 years use it a lot and have only every changed a 6kg bottle 4/5 times.

I guess if your using more gas then fair enough, but I generally run off Solar / inverter / generator.

Don't see why filling the bottle out of the van should be an issue.

It's an issue because you can purchase the necessary kit to refil a standard Calor or other make bottle which is both illegal and dangerous as standard bottles do not have the internal mechanism to prevent them being filled past 80% capacity. In France Texaco garages do not allow the refilling of bottles or motorhomes fullstop after a bad fire at one of there sites.

 

[TonyEmm]

IIRC places like Morrisons will only fill fixed tanks.
At the current extortionate price for calor it makes sense for us after a couple of years use, also should be able to fill in any country where you can't swap Calor.

Not true! I have 2 Safefill cylinders and 3 Morrisons within striking distance. They have no issue with Safefill but I have been challenged to show what I’m filling!

can’t comment on other cylinders …

 

[Millie Master]

Not true! I have 2 Safefill cylinders and 3 Morrisons within striking distance. They have no issue with Safefill but I have been challenged to show what I’m filling!

can’t comment on other cylinders …

I too have a Safefill cylinder and have had no problems refilling it in the UK................. But because we used to tour a lot in Europe I fitted an external filling point and now when I need to refill, it isn't with a loose cylinder but via the external filling point.