Manchester LEZ zone from May

[Robmac]

Don’t let’s confuse this with global warming.
This relates to high nitrogen oxide and particulate matter which leads to early mortality for thousands living in cities every year. I am in favour of these zones, but only if other measures are taken alongside them to help mitigate the measures being taken. IE any money collected could be used towards grants to encourage people with older diesels to get rid of them, build large park and rides outside the zones, and generally don’t allow this money to used to to prop up struggling councils the way car parking charges are used.
But I have little faith that any of that will happen, and these charges will simply end up as cash cows for local councils.

They won't be getting any of my cash Bill.

Quite happy to vote with my feet.

 

[Derekoak]

I'm quite sold on the Xbus Derek mentioned earlier Bill.

I wouldn't buy the camper - it's a possible upgrade later as the modules are interchangeable. But it's a very cheap alternative to buying an electric car.

I did investigate this quite deeply. It is basically a choice of 2 large electric skateboards. With a cab added at the front and the choice of 9 modules mounted behind. It is easy to have a RH drive version as the controls are just electronic. The steering column can just be moved across and connected electrically. Then batteries can be added to the 8 standard in fours adding more range. Each battery 1.25kwh weighs 9 kg so you can lift them in and out of the drawers and charge them indoors as we'll as the normal electric car charging. The camper and other full roof modules have 600watt of solar on the roof as standard. So if you ran out of charge on a sunny wildcamp you could wait. As long as you did not cook . I know that of the 9 modules being pre sold the camper is the most popular in the uk
. I suspect that the camper module cannot be upgraded to the maximum extra battery mentioned as looking at it the camper has a rear footwell, which I think competes with one of the battery drawers.
I don't know why I am this interested as I hope to get at least another 6 years out of my existing diesel camper.

 

[Robmac]

I did investigate this quite deeply. I know that of the 9 modules being pre sold the camper is the most popular in the uk
. I suspect that the camper module cannot be upgraded to the maximum extra battery mentioned as looking at it the camper has a rear footwell, which I think competes with one of the battery drawers.
I don't know why I am this interested as I hope to get at least another 6 years out of my existing diesel camper.

I see what you mean.

I would consider the Kombi pick-up version to double as an everyday vehicle and it could also carry a fair bit of glamping gear.

 

[Robmac]

I see what you mean.

I would consider the Kombi pick-up version to double as an everyday vehicle and it could also carry a fair bit of glamping gear.

...I now see that the Kombi would also only cater for the smaller battery pack.

 

[mistericeman]

The 'Sensible' thing would be to utilise the already in place phasing out of ICE vehicles allowing most if not all to become naturally obselete....

Prices would naturally fall as uptake volume increase...
Alongside a linear increase in charging infrastructure and public transport improvements....

However

What the hell has sensible got to do with it ehh?

 

[Derekoak]

...I now see that the Kombi would also only cater for the smaller battery pack.

I guess that the rear drawer is the larger so I suspect 16 battery modules is the most for the kombi/camper layout. Range nominally 400 k. But you might only carry full battery set when going long range.
It manages the long range by being very light, not too fast and because of the solar.
It actually is registered as Eu L7e-b2 class (side by side buggy) or something like that. lighter than a car, before battery weight. It's maximum GVW IS 1600kg but that gives up to 800kg payload after 8 batteries

 

[Fisherman]

They won't be getting any of my cash Bill.

Quite happy to vote with my feet.

That’s the Scotsman side talking

 

[wildebus]

Don’t let’s confuse this with global warming.
This relates to high nitrogen oxide and particulate matter which leads to early mortality for thousands living in cities every year. I am in favour of these zones, but only if other measures are taken alongside them to help mitigate the measures being taken. IE any money collected could be used towards grants to encourage people with older diesels to get rid of them, build large park and rides outside the zones, and generally don’t allow this money to used to to prop up struggling councils the way car parking charges are used.
But I have little faith that any of that will happen, and these charges will simply end up as cash cows for local councils.

I think one of the graphics on the Manchester Clean Air website sums up the true purpose ... "come on in and visit Manchester... we love you "

PS. There could be one group of campers which will benefit from DVLAs refusal to classify the average campervan as a "Motor Caravan" .... VW Californias for the last few years do not classify as "Motor Caravans" any longer, so will remain as M1 'Cars', and so exempt even though they are campers. (And anyone wanting to convert a VW ... choose a Caravelle or Shuttle base and don't even think about applying to reclassify the conversion and you are golden My last VW T5 conversion, registered in 2008 is exempt as I never reclassified )

 

[Derekoak]

I think one of the graphics on the Manchester Clean Air website sums up the true purpose ... "come on in and visit Manchester... we love you "

PS. There could be one group of campers which will benefit from DVLAs refusal to classify the average campervan as a "Motor Caravan" .... VW Californias for the last few years do not classify as "Motor Caravans" any longer, so will remain as M1 'Cars', and so exempt even though they are campers. (And anyone wanting to convert a VW ... choose a Caravelle or Shuttle base and don't even think about applying to reclassify the conversion and you are golden My last VW T5 conversion, registered in 2008 is exempt as I never reclassified )

That is the position I tried to be in with my DIY doblo which is still an mpv as I wanted to keep the advantages of being a large car mainly the Dfds multi trip tickets. Unfortunately I have so far only been able to insure it as a campervan in constant conversion.
I assume your conversion is still an unconverted van on the v5, but it was a converted camper. Who did you insure your conversion with?

 

[wildebus]

That is the position I tried to be in with my DIY doblo which is still an mpv as I wanted to keep the advantages of being a large car mainly the Dfds multi trip tickets. Unfortunately I have so far only been able to insure it as a campervan in constant conversion. Who did you insure your conversion with?

Because of this change of stance with DLVA around 2018, the majority of speclist insurers have now agreed to insure "failed" conversions with Campervan policies. The last time I was discussing this subject with the insurers, (when it became evident the DVLA were going to continue being stupid), there was a bit of a requirement to provide the DVLA Rejection letter which tended to be worded along the lines of "you have met all the requirements of a Motor Caravan but it doesn't look like one from the outside so tough titties". You don't of course want to try that just to get a rejection as you might end up with a Van/Windows - worst of both worlds!
Long Story short ... I have used A-Plan for all my my conversions at some point, some policies as conversions-in-progress, some policies for official motor caravans, but a couple for the T5 as a converted but non-reclassified Campervan. All the features needed, but left as a "Diesel Car" with Body Type of "MPV"

I am sure A-Plan will give you a Campervan policy

 

[Derekoak]

So I tell A plan that my diesel car, body type mpv is now fully converted to a camper but still looks like a big tall car with tinted windows so I do not want to, and think the dvla will not provide, Motor Caravan classification. Can you offer me Camper insurance anyway?

 

[wildebus]

So I tell A plan that my diesel car, body type mpv is now fully converted to a camper but still looks like a big tall car with tinted windows so I do not want to, and think the dvla will not provide, Motor Caravan classification. Can you offer me Camper insurance anyway?

I would say something like " ...as you know, DVLA is refusing to reclassify self-builds even though my conversion is complete and ticks all the boxes, so I am having to leave the V5 as it is, but am after a full Campervan policy...."
I'd have some photos ready to show it is internally a campervan and say you are a member of the C&CC or whatever (if you are) to reinforce it is - and is used as - a campervan.

 

[izwozral]

For those on a tight budget.

 

[jeffmossy]

Only the Brits would put up with this, if it was in France there would be major riots and burning speed cameras

 

[Herman]

"I live on a main road unfortunately outside Greater Manchester and I will be pleased when the diesel lorries and occasional motorhomes thundering past our house will be dissuaded from coming to our town too."

Be prepared to see more HGV trundling past your door Derek if you live outside the LEZ, as business leave Manchester in the droves to relocate outside the LEZ to avoid charges. I can see industrial areas like Trafford Park becoming ghost towns as business relocate. Big show arenas that hold camping and motorhome shows will hold shows in Preston or other nearby large towns. Imagine someone having an already expensive stall in the Christmas market now willing to pay upto an extra £60 a day to bring in fresh stock, they will have a stall at Clitheroe next year.

 

[TissyD]

I may be lookimg at this wrong but if I say go to Hollingworth lake with the group for a 5 day rally does this mean I would have to pay £50 (£10 per day) or would I only pay for the day I travel if the van is parked up? If I have to pay for the whole stay then I would certainly make sure I went out and about very day thus defeating the object of charging and in what way would the money be used to reduce air pollution. It is like when you book a flight on a plane they give the option to pay extra towards cutting down emissions but the plane still flies if only one person agrees to pay>

 

[mistericeman]

"I live on a main road unfortunately outside Greater Manchester and I will be pleased when the diesel lorries and occasional motorhomes thundering past our house will be dissuaded from coming to our town too."

Be prepared to see more HGV trundling past your door Derek if you live outside the LEZ, as business leave Manchester in the droves to relocate outside the LEZ to avoid charges. I can see industrial areas like Trafford Park becoming ghost towns as business relocate. Big show arenas that hold camping and motorhome shows will hold shows in Preston or other nearby large towns. Imagine someone having an already expensive stall in the Christmas market now willing to pay upto an extra £60 a day to bring in fresh stock, they will have a stall at Clitheroe next year.

Much like most of the hgv traffic does now with the Woodhead pass rather than take the more HGV appropriate M62....

Little of it solves problems just moves the focus

 

[Robmac]

I may be lookimg at this wrong but if I say go to Hollingworth lake with the group for a 5 day rally does this mean I would have to pay £50 (£10 per day) or would I only pay for the day I travel if the van is parked up? If I have to pay for the whole stay then I would certainly make sure I went out and about very day thus defeating the object of charging and in what way would the money be used to reduce air pollution. It is like when you book a flight on a plane they give the option to pay extra towards cutting down emissionms but the plane still flies if only one person agrees to pay>

I don't think they can charge you whilst on private land.

You would have to pay for driving to, driving from and any days in between if you drove out onto the roads in the restricted area.

 

[wildebus]

"I live on a main road unfortunately outside Greater Manchester and I will be pleased when the diesel lorries and occasional motorhomes thundering past our house will be dissuaded from coming to our town too."

Be prepared to see more HGV trundling past your door Derek if you live outside the LEZ, as business leave Manchester in the droves to relocate outside the LEZ to avoid charges. I can see industrial areas like Trafford Park becoming ghost towns as business relocate. Big show arenas that hold camping and motorhome shows will hold shows in Preston or other nearby large towns. Imagine someone having an already expensive stall in the Christmas market now willing to pay upto an extra £60 a day to bring in fresh stock, they will have a stall at Clitheroe next year.

There will also be a switch from vans to estate cars and SUV/MPVs which would be charge-exempt to order to carry goods. makes no difference to emissions whatsoever, but less safe to carry goods in (thinking back to when a colleague destroyed the passenger seat of his car when a heavy printer went through it in an accident. if a van, the bulkhead would have stopped that. Could have been drivers side and killed him).

 

[Robmac]

I can see this being a bit like 'Smart' motorways. Implement and then realise they hadn't really thought it through.

If these vehicles are really causing this much harm surely they should ban them, or is it only ok to poison people if you pay?