Aires feature on BBC Landward this weekend - please watch!

[Cie]

️ Some exciting news!! ️
We are going to be on television this weekend!
We were contacted a few weeks ago by BBC Scotland’s Landward programme (a bit like a Scottish version of Countryfile if you’re not familiar with it) as they’d seen the YouTube video by Cameron McNeish of 2 new Moray Coast Aires, one of which is our Glenbuchty Stopover Motorhome Aire, Fraserburgh. They wanted to make a positive article about a new aire, the growth of such places in communities, village car parks, etc. and the reasons for the need for more Motorhome Aires in the UK, rather than the negative ‘dirty camper’ or new parking restrictions type stories often in the press.

Sadly Fraserburgh’s normal sunshine did not appear, and it was a wet and windy day, so we couldn’t spend much time outside in the stopover, but I did get to be interviewed by the lovely Dougie Vipond, in a sparkling campervan. I think I managed to get over some of the keys points as to why Aire style provisions are needed in the UK, and why campsites aren’t a one-stop solution, plus how CAMpRA is driving this forward. I know I’ll be cringing whilst watching this, but fingers crossed it will come over okay, please don’t judge if not

Thankfully Greg didn’t point out to me that Dougie is the drummer from Deacon Blue, or I think I would have been even more nervous and star struck. The crew were lovely and we had lots of laughs filming which helped reduce my nerves.

If you fancy watching it will be shown as follows:

Thursday 23rd – 2030 BBC Scotland
Friday 24th – 2030 BBC One Scotland
Sunday 26th – 0915 BBC Two (broadcast across the whole of the UK)
Monday 27th – 1930 BBC Scotland
It will also be available on iPlayer.

Hope you enjoy our 15 minutes of fame and if you’re heading up to Fraserburgh please do come and stop with us.
Cecilia & Greg

www.facebook.com/glenbuchtystopover
www.glenbuchtystopover.co.uk

///squashes.them.parsnip

This is the what3words address for a 3 metre square location near Fraserburgh, Aberdeenshire.

w3w.co

 

[TimSands]

I will search it out on iplayer. Looking forward to getting up to Moray again.

 

[Tonybvi]

Dougie’s a great guy and thankyou for publicising this which I shall watch with interest. However personally I would have preferred to have been interviewed by Anne Lundon!!

 

[magbrin]

Unfortunately we are away in France at the moment, but this is great news and we will look forward to catching up with your interview on Landward on our return, on iPlayer.

 

[barryd]

Will try and catch that. Thanks.

Been away since June on the Yorkshire coast, Scottish Islands and south west coast of Scotland and its felt like being in France in the summer with the amount of vans. Plenty of wilding going on and a lot of sites full or hard to get on. I reckon there has never been a better time to push for Aires. I do believe this is how it started in France. So many vans and not enough places for them to stop.

 

[Fisherman]

Will try and catch that. Thanks.

Been away since June on the Yorkshire coast, Scottish Islands and south west coast of Scotland and its felt like being in France in the summer with the amount of vans. Plenty of wilding going on and a lot of sites full or hard to get on. I reckon there has never been a better time to push for Aires. I do believe this is how it started in France. So many vans and not enough places for them to stop.

I was Arran like yourself last week Barry.
I had a great week there, but I have never seen so many vans.
It did little to spoil our time, but it made me realise that things have to change.
There are some who reckon that using aires is not wild camping, well possibly not, but without a substantial increase in aires/stop overs, then I fear for our chosen pastime.
Things are changing, on Arran in July the Auchrannie resort in Brodick opened up a luxury stop over with excellent facilities for up to 8 vans. They have chemical waste, drive over grey water disposal, fresh water, showers, toilet facilities, all brand new from £25 per night.
We visited the excellent facilities in Findhorn. Findhorn offers a shining light to others on how to manage this situation. And yes we visited the OPs stop over in Fraserburgh ran for our benefit by people who care about us and who are part of our community. The time for determining what qualifies for wild camping is over. What really matters now is can we survive as each year brings more and more vans. 16,000 new vans were delivered last year, a record amount.
But what we need more than ever now is a change of attitudes towards us, and for some of us to change how we think.
As well as new aires we need less restrictions by some who view us in poor terms. Yes we have some within our ranks who need educating, but that applies equally to those who manage the resources that we rely on, mainly parking places.
I had an interesting conversation today with Ayrshires parking authority about the parking in Ayr. They agree that we spend much more than those arriving in cars. Apparently the local shop keepers in Ayr and Girvan are delighted to have us in their towns spending much needed money.
If aires are whats needed, then so be it, because the alternative would be unthinkable, and unbearable.

 

[Robmac]

I was Arran like yourself last week Barry.
I had a great week there, but I have never seen so many vans.
It did little to spoil our time, but it made me realise that things have to change.
There are some who reckon that using aires is not wild camping, well possibly not, but without a substantial increase in aires/stop overs, then I fear for our chosen pastime.
Things are changing, on Arran in July the Auchrannie resort in Brodick opened up a luxury stop over with excellent facilities for up to 8 vans. They have chemical waste, drive over grey water disposal, fresh water, showers, toilet facilities, all brand new from £25 per night.
We visited the excellent facilities in Findhorn. Findhorn offers a shining light to others on how to manage this situation. And yes we visited the OPs stop over in Fraserburgh ran for our benefit by people who care about us and who are part of our community. The time for determining what qualifies for wild camping is over. What really matters now is can we survive as each year brings more and more vans. 16,000 new vans were delivered last year, a record amount.
But what we need more than ever now is a change of attitudes towards us, and for some of us to change how we think.
As well as new aires we need less restrictions by some who view us in poor terms. Yes we have some within our ranks who need educating, but that applies equally to those who manage the resources that we rely on, mainly parking places.
I had an interesting conversation today with Ayrshires parking authority about the parking in Ayr. They agree that we spend much more than those arriving in cars. Apparently the local shop keepers in Ayr and Girvan are delighted to have us in their towns spending much needed money.
If aires are whats needed, then so be it, because the alternative would be unthinkable, and unbearable.

Here's my take as one of the uneducated Bill.

All over the UK there is evidence that the local Councils want to herd motorhomers onto sites rather than let them wildcamp, we see reports of this week in week out. They do not like to see us do as we please they want us to do as they please.

To my mind, demanding Aires all over the UK is playing right into their hands. If they have got to stump up cash for these facilities, then they will want them filled to capacity earning money. The general public will also want to see this as it is going to be their money that pays for it. The result (in my opinion) is that eventually true wildcamping will be banned completely and wherever we go we will be moved onto Aires which at the end of the day are just campsites in reality.

Yes we have a lot of motorhomes/campers on our roads at the moment, but will this still be the case when and if travel restrictions are completely lifted? I would think that many people will want to be touring Europe and further afield and a lot will sell their vehicles and go back to 'traditional' package holidays abroad. If that happens, a lot of these new Aires will be underused and not cost effective.

Don't forget, this forum came to be for people who didn't want to go on campsites and be forced to park within bays. It was for people who wanted to camp alone or with a couple of friends in the countryside. So yes, I think what qualifies as wildcamping is quite important.

 

[edina]

Here's my take as one of the uneducated Bill.

All over the UK there is evidence that the local Councils want to herd motorhomers onto sites rather than let them wildcamp, we see reports of this week in week out. They do not like to see us do as we please they want us to do as they please.

To my mind, demanding Aires all over the UK is playing right into their hands. If they have got to stump up cash for these facilities, then they will want them filled to capacity earning money. The general public will also want to see this as it is going to be their money that pays for it. The result (in my opinion) is that eventually true wildcamping will be banned completely and wherever we go we will be moved onto Aires which at the end of the day are just campsites in reality.

Yes we have a lot of motorhomes/campers on our roads at the moment, but will this still be the case when and if travel restrictions are completely lifted? I would think that many people will want to be touring Europe and further afield and a lot will sell their vehicles and go back to 'traditional' package holidays abroad. If that happens, a lot of these new Aires will be underused and not cost effective.

Don't forget, this forum came to be for people who didn't want to go on campsites and be forced to park within bays. It was for people who wanted to camp alone or with a couple of friends in the countryside. So yes, I think what qualifies as wildcamping is quite important.

Spot on Rob. They can call them 'aires', 'stopovers' or whatever, but they are campsites and not wild camping.

 

[Fisherman]

Here's my take as one of the uneducated Bill.

All over the UK there is evidence that the local Councils want to herd motorhomers onto sites rather than let them wildcamp, we see reports of this week in week out. They do not like to see us do as we please they want us to do as they please.

To my mind, demanding Aires all over the UK is playing right into their hands. If they have got to stump up cash for these facilities, then they will want them filled to capacity earning money. The general public will also want to see this as it is going to be their money that pays for it. The result (in my opinion) is that eventually true wildcamping will be banned completely and wherever we go we will be moved onto Aires which at the end of the day are just campsites in reality.

Yes we have a lot of motorhomes/campers on our roads at the moment, but will this still be the case when and if travel restrictions are completely lifted? I would think that many people will want to be touring Europe and further afield and a lot will sell their vehicles and go back to 'traditional' package holidays abroad. If that happens, a lot of these new Aires will be underused and not cost effective.

Don't forget, this forum came to be for people who didn't want to go on campsites and be forced to park within bays. It was for people who wanted to camp alone or with a couple of friends in the countryside. So yes, I think what qualifies as wildcamping is quite important.

I would never refer to you as uneducated Rob.
That’s insulting, and it’s not how I like to behave.
I was referring to people who dump their toilet waste, and leave a mess,
park selfishly etc with no consideration for others, I thought that was a given.
For me my preference has always been removal of unnecessary barriers and signage, but all we see is increase in their use.
I agree that many will head for Europe, but don’t forget that this year there have been much fewer visitors from over there also. Normally around 20% or so of the vans in Scotland come from the EU, I saw only one from Holland on my recent trips. Yes some will sell there vans, but some who may never have bought one but for Covid will retain their vans. Also the price of vans may fall due to an over supply thus making them more affordable for others. The fact is Rob, when I bought my first van only 9,000 were sold that year, 16,000 were sold last year. And I have seen an enormous growth in what I can only term semi converted works vans, which are not included in any figures.

 

[Robmac]

I would never refer to you as uneducated Rob.
That’s insulting, and it’s not how I like to behave.
I was referring to people who dump their toilet waste, and leave a mess,
park selfishly etc with no consideration for others, I thought that was a given.
For me my preference has always been removal of unnecessary barriers and signage, but all we see is increase in their use.
I agree that many will head for Europe, but don’t forget that this year there have been much fewer visitors from over there also. Normally around 20% or so of the vans in Scotland come from the EU, I saw only one from Holland on my recent trips. Yes some will sell there vans, but some who may never have bought one but for Covid will retain their vans. Also the price of vans may fall due to an over supply thus making them more affordable for others. The fact is Rob, when I bought my first van only 9,000 were sold that year, 16,000 were sold last year. And I have seen an enormous growth in what I can only term semi converted works vans, which are not included in any figures.

Sorry, I misunderstood your comment re education Bill!

There is no doubt that the amount of motorhomes and campers has grown, how that trend will continue remains to be seen. Semi converted work vans have always been around (as well as fully converted ones), I'm not sure that I have seen a huge growth in these though? but they have never been included in any figures.

I too would like to see a reduction in signage, especially as it could become a hazard. I usually drive the van to Scotland at night to avoid traffic which can become very tiring. Imagine feeling overtired and wanting to pull into a layby for an hours rest only to be put off by the signs, meanwhile the car drivers can quite rightfully have a rest before continuing their journey. (to be honest I would stop anyway but I can imagine some wouldn't).

Another consideration is that if you provide hundreds of Aires with facilities how many people who usually use campsites will tour around the Aires as a cheaper alternative? If that happens and official campsites lose trade I can't imagine that going down well.

I'm more for keeping my head below the parapet to some extent in these matters. I'm sure that the general public who see us online making demands for cheap parking when it suits us and free parking the rest of the time and then turn up often in £70k+ vehicles just see it as arrogance.

I would much rather see waste emptying stations (for a fee that covers the costs) than full blown Aires. As well as huge fines for those who dump their waste and leave litter in inappropriate places.

 

[Fisherman]

It depends on what qualifies as an Aire Rob.
Take Cies stop over in Fraserburgh, it’s no more than a parking place with no facilities other than a tap for fresh water. But take the new “stop over“ at Auchrannie on Arran, they can call it what they like, but it’s a small luxury campsite in all but name. Take a look.

Motorhome Stop | Motorhome Holidays Scotland | Auchrannie Resort

Enjoy a motorhome holiday in Scotland at Auchrannie Resort, Isle of Arran. Relax with top facilities, stunning views, and easy access to local attractions.

www.auchrannie.co.uk

Now what Cie provides is simply and most effectively a place to park.

Now let’s look at findhorn, it’s not a campsite, but it’s more than just a stop over, to me it’s an full blown Aire. but that’s just my take on it, again please take a look.

The Findhorn Village Conservation Company | West Beach Motor

www.findhornvillageconservation.org.uk

Now Findhorn (which is a stunning location) had a problem with us, and instead of simply putting up barriers and signage they created something that gives us all year round access to this quite remarkable village. Their solution provides them with a solution to a problem, gives them income, and for me it was the best outcome possible.

Now today I will again be contacting Ayrshire parking regarding what they have done at Ayr and Girvan. All they did was to formally provide us with parking spaces in an area already used by us for wild camping. Apart from limiting us to one night, (something many on here adhere to anyway), paying £5 a night for parking and use of their elsan point, not much has changed.

Sorry Rob, but I don’t think things will improve after Covid, for me Covid has acted as a stimulus for us, creating an even greater demand. Yes some will sell their new vans and head for the sun. But their vans wont disappear, they will be bought by new owners.

I hope that these Aires, stop overs, tacit campsites, provide some relief from what we both regard as true wild camping spots. If they do then they will have done their job. As for the campsites, well some of them may need to compete and lower their over priced facilities. I reckon that’s a win win for us all.(apart from the overpriced campsites) Don’t forget that with the amount of tuggers out there, they will always be in demand.

 

[Robmac]

It depends on what qualifies as an Aire Rob.
Take Cies stop over in Fraserburgh, it’s no more than a parking place with no facilities other than a tap for fresh water. But take the new “stop over“ at Auchrannie on Arran, they can call it what they like, but it’s a small luxury campsite in all but name. Take a look.

Motorhome Stop | Motorhome Holidays Scotland | Auchrannie Resort

Enjoy a motorhome holiday in Scotland at Auchrannie Resort, Isle of Arran. Relax with top facilities, stunning views, and easy access to local attractions.

www.auchrannie.co.uk

Now what Cie provides is simply and most effectively a place to park.

Now let’s look at findhorn, it’s not a campsite, but it’s more than just a stop over, to me it’s an full blown Aire. but that’s just my take on it, again please take a look.

The Findhorn Village Conservation Company | West Beach Motor

www.findhornvillageconservation.org.uk

Now Findhorn (which is a stunning location) had a problem with us, and instead of simply putting up barriers and signage they created something that gives us all year round access to this quite remarkable village. Their solution provides them with a solution to a problem, gives them income, and for me it was the best outcome possible.

Now today I will again be contacting Ayrshire parking regarding what they have done at Ayr and Girvan. All they did was to formally provide us with parking spaces in an area already used by us for wild camping. Apart from limiting us to one night, (something many on here adhere to anyway), paying £5 a night for parking and use of their elsan point, not much has changed.

Sorry Rob, but I don’t think things will improve after Covid, for me Covid has acted as a stimulus for us, creating an even greater demand. Yes some will sell their new vans and head for the sun. But their vans wont disappear, they will be bought by new owners.

I hope that these Aires, stop overs, tacit campsites, provide some relief from what we both regard as true wild camping spots. If they do then they will have done their job. As for the campsites, well some of them may need to compete and lower their over priced facilities. I reckon that’s a win win for us all.(apart from the overpriced campsites) Don’t forget that with the amount of tuggers out there, they will always be in demand.

They all seem fine sites Bill if that's where you want to go. But when I go to Scotland I don't want to be herded in with a load of other vans so now those areas would be excluded for me along with many more places who develop similar facilities.

 

[Fisherman]

They all seem fine sites Bill if that's where you want to go. But when I go to Scotland I don't want to be herded in with a load of other vans so now those areas would be excluded for me along with many more places who develop similar facilities.

Well Rob, on Arran’s east coast last week you could not have parked up alone anywhere. Spots were we spent nights alone for years were all nearly filled with vans. Thankfully on the west overlooking kintyre things were better. But we had never seen so many vans there either. Barry commented the same on another thread. We love Arran, but not as it was last week. We are heading back there in November hopefully things will have quietened down by then.

 

[Cie]

They all seem fine sites Bill if that's where you want to go. But when I go to Scotland I don't want to be herded in with a load of other vans so now those areas would be excluded for me along with many more places who develop similar facilities.

I hear what you are saying Robmac. We spent a continuous 7 months (we only stopped due to lockdown) travelling round Scotland, on a very restricted budget so we were mainly Wildcamping/off-grid. Campsites full of rows of vans are not our thing at all. We like peace and quiet, beautiful views etc and those perfect spots that you find where you’re the only one there - looking across a Loch, seeing dark skies and the only light really is the stars, watching a rainbow rise out of a peat moor over a mountain range .... However, we did find difficulties as our van is old, 7.5 tonnes, has a large chimney, got a faulty leisure battery around January and we travelled over winter. It was hard at times to responsibly get rid of our waste - many campsites were closed so we couldn’t ask to pay them to ‘dump and fill’ and whilst we don’t use chemicals we know that much of Scotland runs on septic tanks so didn’t want to use and then ‘leave sparkling clean’ any public toilets as whilst they might smell nice after our visit their tank wouldn’t have the capacity for lots of campers doing the same. We went to one campsite when desperate and they were so rude because our van isn’t a standard appearance motorhome, and despite saying over the phone that we could empty our waste they changed their minds on our arrival. So we have had to dig a very large hole once, and one another time resorted to lifting a manhole cover - never again. Yes it was definitely a sewage drain not storm drain, but is was one with a lid that folds in half. Extremely heave, and so hard to get back on. I nearly fell in head first and still have nightmares! On counterbalance, we have cleaned up large amounts of toilet waste near Glenbrittle, Foyers, Loch Doon and Fraserburgh, and made safe and removed evidence of campfires, along with litter picking wherever we went.

We’ve notice a lot of the new ‘aires’ are places we stopped at for free, or perhaps a donation, and are now chargeable and some even have to be booked in advance. I saw one yesterday that is a campsite, but is now opening in winter and calling itself an aire. However, it’s a place with services that would no have existed in previous winters. In many ways this is a shame, places like Findhorn, Cairngorm and Girvan might now be outside of the budget we were working to. However, they have invested in facilities that are needed, be it toilets, ELSAN points, water, hardstanding so are providing the things that are needed for motorhomers to be responsible and able to tour for long periods of time and they need to cover their costs. It’s a shame some of these insist on booking in advance, as that removes the spontaneity, and I agree that whilst we were the only van when we stopped, there are now a row of vans but that in part reflects the rise of popularity of motorhoming and the effects of Covid that have restricted travel abroad.
What I do know is that when we were stuck needing repairs, or hookup for a failing battery, in minus temperatures we found a few small CLs or stopovers that helped us out (Janet in Drumnadrochit was a lifeline when we nearly gave up our travels because of leaks, no power and feeling poorly).

As such we have opened our aire near Fraserburgh, not as a profit making venture, but to provide a safe spot for people to stop if they want. (We can’t travel at the moment as I’m looking after my elderly mother, so now is a time to give something back). There are plenty of places nearby you can wildcamp if you prefer, but for people needing hardstanding, water, a place available all year and max 5 vans so never crowded, a feeling of security (away from boy racers, dogging, odd exchanges in car parks, people hooting or someone knocking at your door in the wee hours or peeing up your van because sadly these can be the counter experiences of some of those wild camping spots) we have opened our front yard to welcome you. We’ll take bookings for those who want the security of knowing there’s a guaranteed space for them at the end of the day’s travels, or we’re very happy for drop in business. Once we cover the costs of our insurance (which are extortionate sadly as our house insurance increased as a result of doing this, as well as needing public liability fo a stopover) we’ll also put in black waste facilities, and offer a drop in service for those not wanting to stay. We recommend local attractions like the lighthouse museum in Fraserburgh, the restaurants and shops etc so that Fraserburgh benefits from some tourist income, rather than gets driven through on the way to somewhere further up the coast.

We’re just trying to do our bit. The world is changing and not for the better. More of those places once parked in have height barriers, profited parking or sleeping in vans signs, boulders blocking the entrance. Campsites prices have increased, and many now have minimum stay lengths, restricting those of us who might have popped in for one night to use services before wilding again. Soon there’s a new bill coming through that will potentially make parking overnight harder too. So hopefully we will get to meet some of you, like Bill, and hear of your travels, and be a useful stopover service for you, or at least entertain you with the seals opposite the cottage, but we do appreciate we’re not for everyone.
Cie

 

[Robmac]

I hear what you are saying Robmac. We spent a continuous 7 months (we only stopped due to lockdown) travelling round Scotland, on a very restricted budget so we were mainly Wildcamping/off-grid. Campsites full of rows of vans are not our thing at all. We like peace and quiet, beautiful views etc and those perfect spots that you find where you’re the only one there - looking across a Loch, seeing dark skies and the only light really is the stars, watching a rainbow rise out of a peat moor over a mountain range .... However, we did find difficulties as our van is old, 7.5 tonnes, has a large chimney, got a faulty leisure battery around January and we travelled over winter. It was hard at times to responsibly get rid of our waste - many campsites were closed so we couldn’t ask to pay them to ‘dump and fill’ and whilst we don’t use chemicals we know that much of Scotland runs on septic tanks so didn’t want to use and then ‘leave sparkling clean’ any public toilets as whilst they might smell nice after our visit their tank wouldn’t have the capacity for lots of campers doing the same. We went to one campsite when desperate and they were so rude because our van isn’t a standard appearance motorhome, and despite saying over the phone that we could empty our waste they changed their minds on our arrival. So we have had to dig a very large hole once, and one another time resorted to lifting a manhole cover - never again. Yes it was definitely a sewage drain not storm drain, but is was one with a lid that folds in half. Extremely heave, and so hard to get back on. I nearly fell in head first and still have nightmares! On counterbalance, we have cleaned up large amounts of toilet waste near Glenbrittle, Foyers, Loch Doon and Fraserburgh, and made safe and removed evidence of campfires, along with litter picking wherever we went.

We’ve notice a lot of the new ‘aires’ are places we stopped at for free, or perhaps a donation, and are now chargeable and some even have to be booked in advance. I saw one yesterday that is a campsite, but is now opening in winter and calling itself an aire. However, it’s a place with services that would no have existed in previous winters. In many ways this is a shame, places like Findhorn, Cairngorm and Girvan might now be outside of the budget we were working to. However, they have invested in facilities that are needed, be it toilets, ELSAN points, water, hardstanding so are providing the things that are needed for motorhomers to be responsible and able to tour for long periods of time and they need to cover their costs. It’s a shame some of these insist on booking in advance, as that removes the spontaneity, and I agree that whilst we were the only van when we stopped, there are now a row of vans but that in part reflects the rise of popularity of motorhoming and the effects of Covid that have restricted travel abroad.
What I do know is that when we were stuck needing repairs, or hookup for a failing battery, in minus temperatures we found a few small CLs or stopovers that helped us out (Janet in Drumnadrochit was a lifeline when we nearly gave up our travels because of leaks, no power and feeling poorly).

As such we have opened our aire near Fraserburgh, not as a profit making venture, but to provide a safe spot for people to stop if they want. (We can’t travel at the moment as I’m looking after my elderly mother, so now is a time to give something back). There are plenty of places nearby you can wildcamp if you prefer, but for people needing hardstanding, water, a place available all year and max 5 vans so never crowded, a feeling of security (away from boy racers, dogging, odd exchanges in car parks, people hooting or someone knocking at your door in the wee hours or peeing up your van because sadly these can be the counter experiences of some of those wild camping spots) we have opened our front yard to welcome you. We’ll take bookings for those who want the security of knowing there’s a guaranteed space for them at the end of the day’s travels, or we’re very happy for drop in business. Once we cover the costs of our insurance (which are extortionate sadly as our house insurance increased as a result of doing this, as well as needing public liability fo a stopover) we’ll also put in black waste facilities, and offer a drop in service for those not wanting to stay. We recommend local attractions like the lighthouse museum in Fraserburgh, the restaurants and shops etc so that Fraserburgh benefits from some tourist income, rather than gets driven through on the way to somewhere further up the coast.

We’re just trying to do our bit. The world is changing and not for the better. More of those places once parked in have height barriers, profited parking or sleeping in vans signs, boulders blocking the entrance. Campsites prices have increased, and many now have minimum stay lengths, restricting those of us who might have popped in for one night to use services before wilding again. Soon there’s a new bill coming through that will potentially make parking overnight harder too. So hopefully we will get to meet some of you, like Bill, and hear of your travels, and be a useful stopover service for you, or at least entertain you with the seals opposite the cottage, but we do appreciate we’re not for everyone.
Cie

I'm really not criticising you Cie, or Bill come to that matter. We all want the same thing as regards wildcamping after all. I regard what you have as a CL (I do use Cl's occasionally) and all power to you.

What scares me though is that with the advent of 'Aires' in the UK, more signage will go up in places I love (it's already happening as you will know), and as you say a new bill on the way.

The world has definitely changed! Once the new Aires are established and all the signage and laws are in place, I can see the prices for Aires creeping up to close to site prices and then they have us exactly where they want us!

Having said all that, I don't know what the answer is, maybe I'll stick to boating!

 

[Fisherman]

I'm really not criticising you Cie, or Bill come to that matter. We all want the same thing as regards wildcamping after all. I regard what you have as a CL (I do use Cl's occasionally) and all power to you.

What scares me though is that with the advent of 'Aires' in the UK, more signage will go up in places I love (it's already happening as you will know), and as you say a new bill on the way.

The world has definitely changed! Once the new Aires are established and all the signage and laws are in place, I can see the prices for Aires creeping up to close to site prices and then they have us exactly where they want us!

Having said all that, I don't know what the answer is, maybe I'll stick to boating!

None of us know the answer Rob, certainly not me.
But we need more like Cie who know what wild camping is all about, and what we need.
You may be right Rob, I may be wrong here, Who knows.
But as you rightly say, we all want the same thing Rob.

 

[Tookey]

None of us know the answer Rob, certainly not me.
But we need more like Cie who know what wild camping is all about, and what we need.
You may be right Rob, I may be wrong here, Who knows.
But as you rightly say, we all want the same thing Rob.

......but what Cie is doing is not the point being raised;

Aires themselves are not the problem, it's the authoritarian reaction that can/will ensue with the justification that wild campers now have an econically viable alternative to wildcamping and campsites.

Aires can be viewed differently depending on your needs and goals. If your aim is overnighting in vehicles outside of designated zones to be illegal, your need is to be able to justify that this is acceptable, then aires are a card that can played in achieving this goal.

In the 90's Cambridgeshire spent thousands on creating plots with utility blocks for the traveller communities, this was not out of the goodness of their heart but rather to be able to say "look, you can stay here now" thus eradicating the travellers argument that they had no where to go.

Aires can potentially be used to restrict rather than increase the freedom of motorhomers and I do hope Campra are not blind to this.

 

[Fisherman]

......but what Cie is doing is not the point being raised;

Aires themselves are not the problem, it's the authoritarian reaction that can/will ensue with the justification that wild campers now have an econically viable alternative to wildcamping and campsites.

Aires can be viewed differently depending on your needs and goals. If your aim is overnighting in vehicles outside of designated zones to be illegal, your need is to be able to justify that this is acceptable, then aires are a card that can played in achieving this goal.

In the 90's Cambridgeshire spent thousands on creating plots with utility blocks for the traveller communities, this was not out of the goodness of their heart but rather to be able to say "look, you can stay here now" thus eradicating the travellers argument that they had no where to go.

Aires can potentially be used to restrict rather than increase the freedom of motorhomers and I do hope Campra are not blind to this.

Sorry, but I have raised this point, and it has been discussed on other posts.
I have already alluded to the possibilities you mention, and even that I and others may well be wrong. No one has all the answers, not you me or anyone else. but some like Cie are simply trying to help. Also many councils including my own provided facilities for travellers because they were forced to do so in the 90s. Cambridge were not alone in doing so.
I have many times on here stated that CAMpRA should concentrate more on removing unfair parking restrictions, and less on creating Aires. I have even questioned the use of their name which seems to indicate (wrongly) that they concentrate solely on Aires. But I doubt if they are blind to these possibilities you mention. If most of the parking restrictions were removed there would be little need for Aires.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

We'll give it a look we like anything Scottish.

Channel Number 162 on Virgin.

 

[Tookey]

Sorry, but I have raised this point, and it has been discussed on other posts.
I have already alluded to the possibilities you mention, and even that I and others may well be wrong. No one has all the answers, not you me or anyone else. but some like Cie are simply trying to help. Also many councils including my own provided facilities for travellers because they were forced to do so in the 90s. Cambridge were not alone in doing so.
I have many times on here stated that CAMpRA should concentrate more on removing unfair parking restrictions, and less on creating Aires. I have even questioned the use of their name which seems to indicate (wrongly) that they concentrate solely on Aires. But I doubt if they are blind to these possibilities you mention. If most of the parking restrictions were removed there would be little need for Aires.

All valid points. I am not so concerned with Scottish aires in general tbh, there seems to be a more liberal view on how land can be used by the owner/occupier/visitor and I dont just mean in legal terms but rather ethos.

Down here an opportunity to 'rid the public spaces of the unwanted and tax them' will not be missed