New signs put up in Wales regarding motorhomes seen in Barmouth car park and spotted in a layby

Mickrick

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I have just checked through my sales invoice for my Motorhome, (which includes £12,000 in vat), my Motorhome owners manual, my insurance documents, and my V7, and my road tax confirmation. But to date I am unable to find any clause which states I have to support anyone.
Also does this support for local businesses also apply to day trippers who arrive in much greater numbers, or only those of us who have already paid all of the above, some of which should be supporting local communities. Also are we guaranteed places at short notice within these campsites 24/7 12 months of the year.
Finally if I only went to campsites, why did I buy a Motorhome in the first place.
 
I would also like to add that a few of the car parks I've visited have had brand new signs put up saying overnight camping bans I'm wondering whether this is all about getting set up ready to enforce new laws regarding parking without the landowners permission?
 
I have just checked through my sales invoice for my Motorhome, (which includes £12,000 in vat), my Motorhome owners manual, my insurance documents, and my V7, and my road tax confirmation. But to date I am unable to find any clause which states I have to support anyone.
Also does this support for local businesses also apply to day trippers who arrive in much greater numbers, or only those of us who have already paid all of the above, some of which should be supporting local communities. Also are we guaranteed places at short notice within these campsites 24/7 12 months of the year.
Finally if I only went to campsites, why did I buy a Motorhome in the first place.
You may well ask . Of course virtually all of us support local businesses when we are travelling and , as pointed out already , spend more when not on campsites .
Can't work out how it is more environmentally friendly to stay on a campsite rather than a layby
 
On a normal year I reckon I spend £4-6k on motorhome trips. Thats just spending money. I would say 90% of that has gone into Mainland Europe economies. Thats just me. I see stuff like this and I just think like Rob, fcuk it! I wont bother.
 
You may well ask . Of course virtually all of us support local businesses when we are travelling and , as pointed out already , spend more when not on campsites .
Can't work out how it is more environmentally friendly to stay on a campsite rather than a layby

We always TRY to support local communities. But look at our last trip to a C&CC site in Tarland north east of scotland. The staff were English, all our fees headed south of the border, and most of the shops were closed Monday to Wednesday when we were there. So if we had wild camped and the locals had set up chemical waste and fresh water we would have gladly paid them instead. But hey ho that takes joined up thinking, pre planning, and local officials who know what they are doing, not idiotic signs telling us to support local businesses.
 
One of the best examples of a really productive Aire I can think of is on Lac St Croix in Provence. Its a stunning village above a stunning lake and the aire is right on the edge of the village centre with all the shops and restaurants, just next to the boules court. Two minute stroll and you are in the square. It gets crammed. I think its about eight Euros a night or something like that. If you are lucky enough to get a side on lake view spot then its heaven. Not so great in the mashup near the bottom but probably it can take maybe 30 vans at a push. The campsites are either right down the hill by the lake or two miles away further up the hill away from the village and the lake. I suspect the aire turns over decent enough money to more than pay for itself and the shops, eateries and bars seem to do very well out of it. Its not rocket science really is it?

We generally stay a week there and liberally spend money in the bars, eateries and shops. Fantastic place.
 
The sign is highly misleading.

Camping without the landowner's permission is indeed illegal in England and Wales.

Roadsides or laybys are in the vast majority of cases part of the highway and provided you are complying with the Highway Code and not ignoring any Traffic Regulation Order you are entitled to park.

You most certainly are not camping.

Those responsible for erecting these signs should be subjected to legal challenge!
 
Camping without the landowner's permission is indeed illegal in England and Wales.
The sign does not say "Illegal", it says "unlawful".

In England and Wales there is a significant difference between the two terms.

"Unlawful" is "committing an act prescribed by" or "failure to act in compliance with a mandated requirement" that is specified in statute and is geographically and temporally applicable to the act or omission.



"Ilegal" is a big bird that is not very well.
 
The sign does not say "Illegal", it says "unlawful".

In England and Wales there is a significant difference between the two terms.

"Unlawful" is "committing an act prescribed by" or "failure to act in compliance with a mandated requirement" that is specified in statute and is geographically and temporally applicable to the act or omission.



"Ilegal" is a big bird that is not very well.
Struggling to understand what you are saying regarding the legality of stopping in a lay by .
Suspect the signs lack legality or lawfulness
 
This type of signage relies on two things.
The first is ignorance of the law and your rights as a citizen of this country, and the second is fear initiated by that very ignorance. Most of us are not lawyers or have sufficient grasp of our rights, and those who erect such signage play on this ignorance.
But they also achieve something else based on not our ignorance but the ignorance of the public who also read these signs. That something else is anger and even hostility against us. Let’s face when a member of the public reads these signs some if not most will perceive us as scroungers who don’t want to pay for anything, who don’t support local communities unless we go to campsites. So not only do they generate fear from some of us, they also create anger against us from the public, job done.
 
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What confuses me in all of this is who actually owns the roads and laybys? The sign says "Camping without the permission of the landowner is unlawful in Wales"

Most of Snowdonia is owned by farmers or the National Trust/National Parks Authority, but are the roads and laybys? I can fully understand not being allowed to park on farm/NT/NPA land but if the roads are public then they are public.

If the roads and laybys are also owned by these people, I fear we haven't a leg to stand on. Similarly with private car parks.
 
What confuses me in all of this is who actually owns the roads and laybys? The sign says "Camping without the permission of the landowner is unlawful in Wales"

Most of Snowdonia is owned by farmers or the National Trust/National Parks Authority, but are the roads and laybys? I can fully understand not being allowed to park on farm/NT/NPA land but if the roads are public then they are public.

If the roads and laybys are also owned by these people, I fear we haven't a leg to stand on. Similarly with private car parks.

It all goes back to the old conundrum Rob.
How are we to know who the landlord is in many occasions, and how are we expected to contact them for permission.
Much of what we do is spontaneous, that’s the nature of our pursuit.
Thats what WC can be all about for some.
Before heading of on a journey I look through the POIs and chose were we will stay, but we have turned up at places were we feel there are to many, and then have too look elsewhere.
 

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