Petition Against NC 500 Campers

GeoffL said:
Whether tourism is beneficial depends upon your point of view. As a naturalised Cornishman who doesn't profit from tourism, the annual influx of emmets is a PITA. For a quarter or more of each year, the roads are choked and the campsites full to bursting -- so locals can't go anywhere quickly and you can't get a pitch unless you book weeks in advance. I suspect that it's the same for most Scots who don't work in the tourist industry and so I can understand why they kick out. (Just saying...)
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Not sure what you mean by Natruralised but maybe you have chosen to live there for whatever reason..Immaterial.

However I suggest you do benefit..(if not profit directly)
Tourists bring cash for
Hotels Campsites B&B cottage rentals holiday Flats and more
All these pay taxes to the local council(s)
Then there is employment of locals to service the above
Also food and provisions will mainly be bought locally thus employing people etc.
We also have the local tourist infrastructure
Entrance fees, Boat trips, surfing. Restaurants Fish & chips cafes Bars
Car park fees etc etc etc
Thus again providing income for the councils
Thus without tourism the county would be "Dead on it feet" finacially and locals would have no chance of buying homes and continuing to live in Cornwall

YES a PITA as are many industrial sites in other areas
 
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Debroos said:
To a born and bred Cornish man there is no such thing as a 'naturalised' Cornishman! Only incomers. Just sayin'...😉
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True enough. Even though almost all my ancestors on my father's side were Cornish born and bred, my wife is Cornish, and I've lived in Cornwall for most of my life, I was born outside the county, which is why I only claim 'naturalisation'.

Regards infrastructure, AFAICT the rules only permit highways funding adequate to support the permanent population and minor roads are funded by local council tax. This is why there are no motorways in Cornwall and it's taken what seems like forever to get most of the A30 dualled even though the summer 'population' warrants a 'trans-Cornwall' motorway. Outside the tourist season, the roads in Cornwall are more than adequate -- and I suspect the same applies in the Scottish Highlands. I agree that infrastructure should be put in place to accommodate the visitors, but IMO it's unfair to lumber a small, permanent population in the lowest-paid areas of the UK to make the roads etc. fit for visitors from the most wealthy regions and so this should be a central responsibility. That said, just watch eco-mentalists object to any infrastructure improvement. Just saying...

Jagmanx said:
Thus without tourism the county would be "Dead on it feet" finacially and locals would have no chance of buying homes and continuing to live in Cornwall
Click to expand...
Oh boy, you've just hit another thorny issue. Most locals cannot afford to buy homes right now because of the low wages and the second-home market pushing prices up to what only those from London etc. can afford. Near my home, most of the villages become ghost towns in the winter as all the wealthy second-home owners leave.
 
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Fisherman said:
Geoff,

Cornwall And Devon are lovely places. Although it’s a fair old distance for us to get there from Scotland I have done so several times and have enjoyed my time there. But Cornwall without a working community dependent on amongst other things tourism would not be what it is today. You and others who only view Cornwall as a place of retirement would not have many of the facilities that you both need and enjoy. You say you cannot book into campsites without having to book months in advance. Without infiltration from outside Cornwall there would not be many if any campsites. Cornwall is not an island, and neither are any rural locations in our islands. You need visitors in numbers for the very survival of what you take for granted. You also stated that your roads are choked up, having driven your roads I am not surprised, you have some of the worse roads I have ever driven upon. Perhaps instead of blaming the very tourists you need for such issues, you should consider laying the blame on lack of investment on your road network.
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A few years ago those who campaigned at that time opposed the restrictions that Cornwall County Council was implementing thorughout the county. Surprisingly there was a fairly positive response - though the restrictions were still imposed. John Thompson's organisation, the tmcto was asked to provide a spokesman to talk to a council meeting about the possibility of providing some sort of motorhome support. Both John and I were abroad at the time and neither of us could attend; we weren't invited to attend again.

We couldn't find anyone willing to go and the opportuity was lost. The council didn;t ask me - though I'd been in contact with them and we thought John was invited because of his tmcto website, that is, I was an individual; John was a representative.

My initial approach to named councillors is below. We don't know what value it had in prompting John's invitation but it may have had some.

EDIT> The opportunity was lost but it did exist and could exist again; not just for Cornwall but anywhere if we can find the right approach.
 

Attachments

  • Email to Bert Bisco.pdf
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The following was sent to Jamie the NIMBY by email........

Jamie

Having read recent news, I understand you have recently written to Nicola Sturgeon implying Motorhome and campervan owners are the cause of certain problems in your constituency and are ruining the roads. I am now considering writing to all 205 Motorhome and campervan owners living in the constituency for their views.

Kind regards

He has a majority of 204 in his constituency 🤫😂😂😂
 
You're a bad man.

Love it.

It shows, I think, that the MP worries about his small majority and sees an oportunity to milk a little outrage, add ot it if he can, and reap the benefit of a few more votes. I see this guy more as keeping his job than caring for the economy and the environment.
 
As promised here my wee letter to Mr Stone.


Dear Mr Stone,

After reading your letter regarding damage caused by Motorhomes in your constituency and apparent blockages they create to your road network, I was at first thinking that this was some kind of practical joke. But when I realised that this was actually to be taken seriously I was shocked at the lack of basic understanding of what the current situation regarding how roads are funded, and the law pertaining to parking which creates an obstruction to other road users. I was also offended by your reference to mess left and it’s apparent connection with Motorhome users.

First let me guide you towards what’s involved when purchasing a Motorhome and it’s maintenance. I purchased a new Motorhome only last year and paid £12,000 plus in vat.
I then paid road fund duty at the rate of £265 per annum, and approx 80% of what I pay for fuel is tax. I also have to pay tax when insuring my vehicle, and having both its habitation equipment and engine serviced annually. As far as I am concerned HM government are free to use these taxes as they see fit. May I respectfully request that you contact them for any additional funding regarding your road network.

As for us causing excessive damage I would would like to see on what basis you make such a judgment. Over 90% of campers and Motorhomes are classed as private LIGHT goods vehicles. Their unladen weights are generally under 3t with a max loaded weight of 3.5t. Many SUV vehicles are of a similar weight. Would you wish them to pay this levy also. Then we have logging and other HGV vehicles weighting ten times our weight and more. What levy do you propose for them. Also how do you propose to collect this levy, and how do you propose to monitor exit and entry into your area regarding this levy that you are proposing. Also how much more do you propose we pay, and will this be all year round or only the summer months. Also you have thousands of owners of these vehicles in your own area, should they pay also. And finally should this be rolled out into other parts of the country, meaning as we cross from one boundary to another we would pay whatever levy was applied to each area. Writing to Nicola Sturgeon to apply such a levy when the snp removed all bridge tariffs seems rather pointless, and even pedantic.

Next you reckon that we create obstructions causing problems on your roads. Can I remind or inform you that under the road traffic laws this is an offence resulting in heavy fines and or removal of your vehicle. May I respectfully request that if you or any of your unfortunate constituents should contact Police Scotland on such matters. I am sure that they will be more than happy to deal with theirs or your requests.

You completely contradict yourself when you state that you fully support the tourist industry in your area. If you really care about your tourist industry may I suggest the following.
Instead of creating pointless, ill thought out petitions, which will only serve to damage your industry why don’t you actually do something positive and involve some forward thinking. Why don’t you put in place basic facilities for Motorhomes in strategic places and charge them for their use.

Quite frankly your petition has all the hallmarks of an mp worried about his slim majority looking for populists measures to boost his position. But I reckon you scored an own goal here Mr Stone.

Regards

Bill.
 
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Fisherman said:
As promised here my wee letter to Mr Stone.


Dear Mr Stone,

After reading your letter regarding damage caused by Motorhomes in your constituency and apparent blockages they create to your road network, I was at first thinking that this was some kind of practical joke. But when I realised that this was actually to be taken seriously I was shocked at the lack of basic understanding of what the current situation regarding how roads are funded, and the law pertaining to parking which creates an obstruction to other road users. I was also offended by your reference to mess left and it’s apparent connection with Motorhome users.

First let me guide towards what’s involved when purchasing a Motorhome and it’s maintenance. I purchased a new Motorhome only last year and paid £12,000 plus in vat.
I then paid road fund duty at the rate of £265 per annum, and approx 80% of what I pay for fuel is tax. I also have to pay tax when insuring my vehicle, and having both its habitation equipment and engine serviced annually. As far as I am concerned HM government are free to use these taxes as they see fit. May I respectfully request that you contact them for any additional funding regarding your road network.

As for us causing excessive damage I would would like to see on what basis you make such a judgment. Over 90% of campers and Motorhomes are classed as private LIGHT goods vehicles. Their unladen weights are generally under 3t with a max loaded weight of 3.5t. Many SUV vehicles are of a similar weight. Would you wish them to pay this levy also. Then we have logging and other HGV vehicles weighting ten times our weight and more. What levy do you propose for them. Also how do you propose to collect this levy, and how do you propose to monitor exit and entry into your area regarding this levy you are proposing. Also how much more do you propose we pay, and will this be all year round or only the summer months. Also you have thousands of owners of these vehicles in your own area, should they pay also. And finally should this be rolled out into other parts of the country, meaning as we cross from one boundary to another we would pay whatever levy was applied to each area. Writing to Nicola Sturgeon to apply such a levy when the snp removed all bridge tariffs seems rather pointless, and even pedantic.

Next you reckon that we create obstructions causing problems on your roads. Can I remind or inform you that under the road traffic laws this is an offence resulting in heavy fines and or removal of your vehicle. May I respectfully request that you or any of your unfortunate constituents should contact Police Scotland on such matters. I am sure that they will be more than happy to deal with theirs or your requests.

You completely contradict yourself when you state that you fully support the tourist industry in your area. If you really care about your tourist industry may I suggest the following.
Instead of creating pointless, ill thought out petitions, which will only serve to damage your industry why don’t you actually do something positive and involve some forward thinking. Why don’t you put in place basic facilities for Motorhomes in strategic places and charge them for their use.

Quite frankly your petition has all the hallmarks of an mp worried about his slim majority looking for populists measures to boost his position. But I reckon you scored an own goal here Mr Stone.

Regards

Bill.
Click to expand...


Bill well you cant beat a wee letter which is straight to the point.For some reason I feel this MP Jamie is not long out of nappies i/e a very young fellow who needs leading by the nose.If many others on here pen him a similar email maybe the penny will drop.
atb.
 
Yes but such a letter does little overall..Not decrying your efforts Bill on this and other similar matters.

I have also read Maureen&Tom's email pdf comparing Cornwall and Finistere
A thought is should we change tack ?

Most of our letters although excellent are in effect asking
"What can you/your council/your tourist agency do for motorhomers !

Change the emphasis to
"What can motorhomers do for you !" or Look at the benefits of motorhomes visiting/staying
Of course the main thing is by spending money in the area.
But we need to enhance this. Yes more money spent in
Food shops Pubs etc thus also helping with employment.
Visitor attractions and local tours/boat trips
Holiday shops souvenirs local products and more
Daytime Parking fees often up to £3 a time
Overnight parking fees ( it seems £15 may well be the chosen figure although I, stingily, suggest £10 )
Diesel & gas
ALL also give local employment which is of benefit to the comminity as well as the council
We as a group subscribe too environmentally friendly ideas. We are commited to full consideration to others, and the areas we use. we do not leave litter or any other waste and often we tidy up after other tourists, some of whom are less than considerate


All told we spend about £1,000 a month as we tend not to spend too much on "tourist Items" and we do not eat out much (just F&C)
I expect some to spend rather more if they like pub/restaurant meals
I am sure others can add to the list and provide more info on Monthly spend

The latest proposal at Fisherrow harbour is good news
The area has good pubs restaurants , the town centre is pleasant and a nice walk.
There is also a theatre and the prom itself is nice
Yes camp-sites can be cheaper but "Location location location"

PS as Bill @Fisherman rightly points out, Damage to highways is irrelevant
As maureen & tom point out no welcome or facilities = NoGo
 
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jagmanx said:
Yes but such a letter does little overall..Not decrying your efforts Bill on this and other similar matters.

I have also read Maureen&Tom's email pdf comparing Cornwall and Finistere
A thought is should we change tack ?

Most of our letters although excellent are in effect asking
"What can you/your council/your tourist agency do for motorhomers !

Change the emphasis to
"What can motorhomers do for you !" or Look at the benefits of motorhomes visiting/staying
Of course the main thing is by spending money in the area.
But we need to enhance this. Yes more money spent in
Food shops Pubs etc thus also helping with employment.
Visitor attractions and local tours/boat trips
Holiday shops souvenirs local products and more
Daytime Parking fees often up to £3 a time
Overnight parking fees ( it seems £15 may well be the chosen figure although I, stingily, suggest £10 )
Diesel & gas
ALL also give local employment which is of benefit to the comminity as well as the council
We as a group subscribe too environmentally friendly ideas. We are commited to full consideration to others, and the areas we use. we do not leave litter or any other waste and often we tidy up after other tourists, some of whom are less than considerate


All told we spend about £1,000 a month as we tend not to spend too much on "tourist Items" and we do not eat out much (just F&C)
I expect some to spend rather more if they like pub/restaurant meals
I am sure others can add to the list and provide more info on Monthly spend

The latest proposal at Fisherrow harbour is good news
The area has good pubs restaurants , the town centre is pleasant and a nice walk.
There is also a theatre and the prom itself is nice
Yes camp-sites can be cheaper but "Location location location"

PS as Bill @Fisherman rightly points out, Damage to highways is irrelevant
As maureen & tom point out no welcome or facilities = NoGo
Click to expand...
We visit Fisherrow harbour often but have not heard of any plans. Can you clarify?
Thanks. Pauline and Roy. 🌈 🦄
 
Originally @runnach
www.fhsa.org.uk

Campers

Please be considerate and do not plan to stay overnight in a vehicle at Fisherrow at the moment. Without a way to manage numbers, there is no facility to accommodate visitors in campervans or motorhomes in a way that protects enjoyment of the area for everyone. Trustees of FHSA ran a trial in 2020
www.fhsa.org.uk www.fhsa.org.uk
 
jagmanx said:
Yes but such a letter does little overall..Not decrying your efforts Bill on this and other similar matters.

I have also read Maureen&Tom's email pdf comparing Cornwall and Finistere
A thought is should we change tack ?

Most of our letters although excellent are in effect asking
"What can you/your council/your tourist agency do for motorhomers !

Change the emphasis to
"What can motorhomers do for you !" or Look at the benefits of motorhomes visiting/staying
Of course the main thing is by spending money in the area.
But we need to enhance this. Yes more money spent in
Food shops Pubs etc thus also helping with employment.
Visitor attractions and local tours/boat trips
Holiday shops souvenirs local products and more
Daytime Parking fees often up to £3 a time
Overnight parking fees ( it seems £15 may well be the chosen figure although I, stingily, suggest £10 )
Diesel & gas
ALL also give local employment which is of benefit to the comminity as well as the council
We as a group subscribe too environmentally friendly ideas. We are commited to full consideration to others, and the areas we use. we do not leave litter or any other waste and often we tidy up after other tourists, some of whom are less than considerate


All told we spend about £1,000 a month as we tend not to spend too much on "tourist Items" and we do not eat out much (just F&C)
I expect some to spend rather more if they like pub/restaurant meals
I am sure others can add to the list and provide more info on Monthly spend

The latest proposal at Fisherrow harbour is good news
The area has good pubs restaurants , the town centre is pleasant and a nice walk.
There is also a theatre and the prom itself is nice
Yes camp-sites can be cheaper but "Location location location"

PS as Bill @Fisherman rightly points out, Damage to highways is irrelevant
As maureen & tom point out no welcome or facilities = NoGo
Click to expand...

I felt that I wanted to cover his points.
If I started going into other issues the letter would have been even longer.
Brevity was at risk, and I decided not to mention these issues.
But hopefully someone else will highlight this to Mr Stone.
 
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Firstly, I'm not against tourism per se (otherwise, I wouldn't be a motorhomer) -- and I'm playing Devil's advocate here to help understanding of why tourists might not be welcomed by the general population in 'tourist destinations'.

While it's been suggested that the hoi polloi of Cornwall (and Scotland?) benefit from tourism, the alleged benefit is much less than you might think and, in Cornwall at least, some forms of tourism have been detrimental both to the economy and community. Many tourism business are owned by outsiders, so much of the profit doesn't stay in the county, and a lot of seasonal jobs go to outsiders, who either take the money with them at the end of the season or spend it at non-local businesses (think Tesco et al.)

However, the most destructive element of tourism is the second-home problem, which has over half the housing in some areas unavailable to locals (even if they could afford it). This has created a massive shortage of affordable housing, obliging locals to move away, which has reduced the workforce available to 'regular' businesses, which have consequently located away from the county, resulting in fewer jobs, further depressing the already low wages and hence the GDP of the area. Outliers snapping up Cornish properties in popular areas for use as holiday lets only exacerbates the issue further. There are loopholes that allow holiday lets to escape business rates and misuse of AirBnB etc. means that some (many?) who should pay rates don't. Overall, annual council revenue is reduced.

In the meantime, the two traditional industries of Cornwall (minining and fishing) have been destroyed -- one by UK Government; the other by EU policy -- and no significant industry has moved in to take their place. Tourism probably welcomes this as the lack of industry helps make the region pretty, quaint and picturesque -- more 'touristy'.

Cornish folk song lyrics said:
Cornishmen are fishermen
And Cornishmen are miners too
But when the fish and tin are gone
What are the Cornishmen to do
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Many have/had no choice but sell out to wealthy outsiders and move out of the county, leaving many villages desolate out of season; while, in season, the roads are jam-packed with cars bearing 'foreign' registration plates.

So don't think that the average man in the street owes anything to tourists.
 
I see your point GeoffL, but this is the story of every pretty place in Europe. Native home owners don't have to sell at sky high prices to outsiders. They could sell to a local at a sensible price, but money has a certain allure when you can move out of an old cramped house into a pretty new bungalow in a less expensive area.
I don't really understand the idea that someone would sell their business to an outsider if it was profitable, unless the money was the allure, with dreams of early retirement, and why would anyone buy it if they couldn't see a living to be made?
 
GeoffL said:
Firstly, I'm not against tourism per se (otherwise, I wouldn't be a motorhomer) -- and I'm playing Devil's advocate here to help understanding of why tourists might not be welcomed by the general population in 'tourist destinations'.

While it's been suggested that the hoi polloi of Cornwall (and Scotland?) benefit from tourism, the alleged benefit is much less than you might think and, in Cornwall at least, some forms of tourism have been detrimental both to the economy and community. Many tourism business are owned by outsiders, so much of the profit doesn't stay in the county, and a lot of seasonal jobs go to outsiders, who either take the money with them at the end of the season or spend it at non-local businesses (think Tesco et al.)

However, the most destructive element of tourism is the second-home problem, which has over half the housing in some areas unavailable to locals (even if they could afford it). This has created a massive shortage of affordable housing, obliging locals to move away, which has reduced the workforce available to 'regular' businesses, which have consequently located away from the county, resulting in fewer jobs, further depressing the already low wages and hence the GDP of the area. Outliers snapping up Cornish properties in popular areas for use as holiday lets only exacerbates the issue further. There are loopholes that allow holiday lets to escape business rates and misuse of AirBnB etc. means that some (many?) who should pay rates don't. Overall, annual council revenue is reduced.

In the meantime, the two traditional industries of Cornwall (minining and fishing) have been destroyed -- one by UK Government; the other by EU policy -- and no significant industry has moved in to take their place. Tourism probably welcomes this as the lack of industry helps make the region pretty, quaint and picturesque -- more 'touristy'.


Many have/had no choice but sell out to wealthy outsiders and move out of the county, leaving many villages desolate out of season; while, in season, the roads are jam-packed with cars bearing 'foreign' registration plates.

So don't think that the average man in the street owes anything to tourists.
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Geoff I don’t disagree with what you are saying, but this thread was about an idiot who dreamt up some scheme on a whim to charge us a levy because of the damage we were doing to his roads. What you are stating regarding second homes and the problems that creates is a totally separate issue.
He also accused us of blocking his roads when we make up less than 1% of the traffic on them.
The fact is places like Cornwall will always attract tourists and those wishing to buy second homes, and what’s required are measures from government to help with these issues, not hair brained schemes like the one proposed my mr Stone.
 
Fisherman said:
Geoff I don’t disagree with what you are saying, but this thread was about an idiot who dreamt up some scheme on a whim to charge us a levy because of the damage we were doing to his roads. What you are stating regarding second homes and the problems that creates is a totally separate issue.
He also accused us of blocking his roads when we make up less than 1% of the traffic on them.
The fact is places like Cornwall will always attract tourists and those wishing to buy second homes, and what’s required are measures from government to help with these issues, not hair brained schemes like the one proposed my mr Stone.
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Bill dead right.People buying second homes or moving to a tourist area i/e Cornwall for instance to retire etc has been going on for years.I live near Skegness but lived in London for 40 years before coming here and many move to here from Nottingham Mansfield Sheffield etc so Cant change that.Not many local born near me all "foreigners now" i/e moved from the cities to the tourist places.
And the same as Scotland Cornwall has narrow fragile roads but these again similar to Scotland are being eroded by HGVS etc.Yes HGVS are getting heavier and larger so will obviously in time wear down the road surface.Not the average 3.5 motorhome.Due to #Covid19 people are becoming protective of where they live and so like this young MP are dreaming up ridiculous schemes to extract even more out of the Motorhome/Campervan owner. Like you stated earlier it cost you £12000 in VAT (how much!) for your recent new Motorhome purchase so what else to these MPs want from us.Maybe they could look through their blinkers and actually do a logical survey of who and what type of vehicles actually use these so called fragile roads BEFORE any hair brained taxation scheme is introduced.
 
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