Wilding Spain

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Hi guys need places to stop on east coast of Spain down to gib please ., France all sorted just need Spain please
 
Steve7133 said:
Hi guys need places to stop on east coast of Spain down to gib please ., France all sorted just need Spain please
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No you don't.

If you park with the pack you are sure to be moved on by the police eventually. If you do your own thing and park (only tyres in contact with the road) sensibly you will not.

We have just driven around the peninsular (Spain & Portugal) wild parking for 6 months. We made a point of not staying during the day where we intended to park overnight. Yes we were regularly passed by the Local Police and Guardia. One even park beside us one morning but we were never moved on.

We parked in laybys, in car parks and picnic area without problems.

We avoided area with high population but stayed in villages at times.

INSTRUCTION 08/V-74 FROM THE SPANISH DIRECTOR GENERAL OF TRAFFIC RELATIVE TO MOTORHOMES

MINISTRY OF INTERIOR

Subject: Motorhomes

Instruction 08/V-74

3. - STOPPING AND PARKING

Under the heading "Stopping and parking," the General Traffic Regulations regulate in Chapter VIII (Articles 90 to 94), the rules applicable to these manoeuvres, regarding places where these manoeuvres can be made, method and form of execution, position of vehicle, Municipal Ordinance and prohibited places, which must be observed by all vehicles in general.

3.1 urban roadways

Regarding places where stopping and parking in urban streets should be carried out, Article 90.2 of the General Traffic Regulations indicate in the second paragraph what should be observed in effect of the provisions of the ordinances decreed by the Municipal Authorities, in connection with which Article 93 states:

1. The regime of stopping and parking in urban streets will be regulated by municipal ordinance, and the necessary measures may be taken to prevent the obstruction of traffic, including time limits for the duration of parking or stopping, as well as the precise corrective measures, including the clamping or towing of the vehicle when a valid parking ticket is not displayed which authorises parking in zones limited by time or exceed the time limit granted and until the identity of the driver can be ascertained.

2. In no event may the municipal ordinance oppose, alter, distort, or cause confusion with the precepts of this regulation.

One of the most frequent complaints made before the Traffic Department by users of motorhomes is the prohibition to park which is applied to these vehicles, in part or in entirety, on the urban streets and which some municipalities incorporate into their ordinances.

These regulations are made under Article 7 of the articles of the Law on Traffic, Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety, approved by Royal Decree 339/1990 of March 2, which give municipalities a series of competencies, within that law, including:


b) The regulation by Municipal Traffic Ordinance on the use of urban roads, making compatible the fair distribution of parking among all users, with the necessary flow of traffic, as well as the establishment of limited parking, to ensure the rotation of parking, ..”

Therefore, in the opinion of the General Director of Traffic it is indisputable that the exclusion of certain users must be necessarily motivated and based on reasonable objections such as the external dimensions of the vehicle or the maximum permissible weight (MMA) of the vehicle but not by use of subjective reasons such as: possible uncivilised behaviour by some users such as noise at night, dumping of garbage or waste water onto the public road, monopolization of public space by erecting structures and furnishings or other situations of abuse against which local authorities have effective legal tools to be used in a non-discriminatory manner against all violators, whether users of motorhomes or any other type of vehicle.

Motorhome users are permitted to carry out manoeuvres of stopping and parking in the same conditions and with the same limitations as any other vehicle.

With regard to the mode and manner of implementation of stopping and parking, Article 91 of the General Traffic Regulations states that these exercises "should be made so that the vehicle does not hamper the circulation of traffic nor is a risk to other users the road, especially observing the positioning of the vehicle and avoiding that the vehicle is able to move in the absence of the driver.

As to the positioning of the vehicle, the cited Article 92 of the General Traffic Regulations state:

"1.Stopping and parking will be conducted by placing the vehicle in parallel to the kerb of the street or roadway. As an exception, an alternative positioning will be permitted when the characteristics of the street or roadway or other circumstances so warrant.

2. Any driver who stops or parks the vehicle must do so in a way that allows a maximum use of the remaining space available.

3. In the case of a motor vehicle or motorcycle, when the driver has to abandon the vehicle, the following rules should be observed, where applicable:

a) Stop the engine and disconnect the ignition and, if leaving the vehicle, take the necessary precautions to prevent its unauthorized use.

b) Engage the hand-brake.
.
c) In a vehicle equipped with gearbox, leave the first gear engaged if parked on an upward slope, and the reverse gear engaged if parked on downward slope, or, in the parking position if automatic

d) When the vehicle is superior to 3,500 kilograms of maximum permissible weight (MMA), a bus or coach or a combination of vehicles, and when stopping or parking is conducted in a place with a marked slope, the driver must also use proper wheel blocks; stones, bricks or other items not specifically intended for this use cannot be used, nor by resting one of the wheels on the kerb of the pavement, nor by inclining the wheels towards the centre of the road on upward slopes nor outwards on downward slopes. The wheel blocks must be removed from the road after use and prior to driving away.

The General Traffic Regulations do not establish any other conditions for stopping or parking a vehicle, so, therefore, this General Directorate of Traffic believes that while any vehicle is parked properly, without exceeding markings on the delimitation of the parking space, nor exceeds the time permitted, if any, it is irrelevant whether the occupants are inside the vehicle, and the motorhome is no exception, being sufficient that the activity in the interior does not transcend to the exterior by the setting up of elements which surpass the perimeter of the vehicle such as stalls, awnings, levelling devices, stabilizing devices, etc. (for stalls, read tables and chairs)

3.2 intercity routes (Highways)

Article 90.1 of the General Traffic Regulations defines the places where stopping and parking should be carried out on intercity routes noting that this should be done as far away from the roadway, on the right hand side, leaving part of the hard shoulder free for transit.

In general, on motorways and highways it is forbidden to carry out manoeuvres of stopping and parking for all vehicles, except in areas specially assigned for these manoeuvres.

The General Traffic Regulations, Article 91, on stopping and parking on intercity routes concerning the method and manner of implementation already covered in the previous point, as well as the considerations in relation to parking in urban streets and the presence of people inside a vehicle correctly parked, without prejudice to the possibility of parking in areas of service stations or on private land where other conditions can be agreed with the owners.

To be made public for general knowledge.

Madrid, Jan. 28, 2008

THE DIRECTOR GENERAL

Pere Navarro Olivella

TO BE DISTRIBUTED TO ALL UNITS OF THE AGENCY
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Enjoy Spain

Drinking water can be obtained at Fuente (natural springs). These are used by the locals and marked by signs of a tap.

John
 
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John Thompson said:
No you don't.

If you park with the pack you are sure to be moved on by the police eventually. If you do your own thing and park (only tyres in contact with the road) sensibly you will not.

We have just driven around the peninsular (Spain & Portugal) wild parking for 6 months. We made a point of not staying during the day where we intended to park overnight. Yes we were regularly passed by the Local Police and Guardia. One even park beside us one morning but we were never moved on.

We parked in laybys, in car parks and picnic area without problems.

We avoided area with high population but stayed in villages at times.

.



Enjoy Spain

Drinking water can be obtained at Fuente (natural springs). These are used by the locals and marked by signs of a tap.

John
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Hi John hope you get to read this, i wanted to as k you re parking giving your wealth of experiance.

Given i have a landrover and as per its v5 its classed as an estate car and not even a commerical nevermind a motorhome. my question is hope will the police look at it.

i have done around 6 weeks last year in my old ppl carrier wildcamping and never had any problem. is it because its not a m home so no action if parked leagly or is it that its steath so the poilce dont even know im in it or is it that you can stay/ s;eep in a venicle as long as its not a motorhome, or given that you carnt do any of the above i have just been lucky??

Thanks John

p.s i have read a number of your post and enjoy reading them with intrest.

Lee
 
landyrubbertramp said:
Hi John hope you get to read this, i wanted to as k you re parking giving your wealth of experiance.

Given i have a landrover and as per its v5 its classed as an estate car and not even a commerical nevermind a motorhome. my question is hope will the police look at it.

i have done around 6 weeks last year in my old ppl carrier wildcamping and never had any problem. is it because its not a m home so no action if parked leagly or is it that its steath so the poilce dont even know im in it or is it that you can stay/ s;eep in a venicle as long as its not a motorhome, or given that you carnt do any of the above i have just been lucky??

Thanks John

p.s i have read a number of your post and enjoy reading them with intrest.

Lee
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Hi Lee

It is camping that gets up the back of officialdom in Spain. That is putting anything outside the vehicle.

it is indisputable that the exclusion of certain users must be necessarily motivated and based on reasonable objections such as the external dimensions of the vehicle or the maximum permissible weight (MMA) of the vehicle but not by use of subjective reasons such as: possible uncivilised behaviour by some users such as noise at night, dumping of garbage or waste water onto the public road, monopolization of public space by erecting structures and furnishings or other situations of abuse against which local authorities have effective legal tools to be used in a non-discriminatory manner against all violators, whether users of motorhomes or any other type of vehicle.
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It is permissible to sleep in a properly parked Motorhome or other vehicle in Spain.

Motorhome users are permitted to carry out manoeuvres of stopping and parking in the same conditions and with the same limitations as any other vehicle.
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The General Traffic Regulations do not establish any other conditions for stopping or parking a vehicle, so, therefore, this General Directorate of Traffic believes that while any vehicle is parked properly, without exceeding markings on the delimitation of the parking space, nor exceeds the time permitted, if any, it is irrelevant whether the occupants are inside the vehicle, and the motorhome is no exception, being sufficient that the activity in the interior does not transcend to the exterior by the setting up of elements which surpass the perimeter of the vehicle such as stalls, awnings, levelling devices, stabilizing devices, etc. (for stalls, read tables and chairs)
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Putting out steps, corner steadies, water containers, tables and or chairs, awnings, generators, washing lines, even opening the side windows beyond the wing mirrors is frowned upon by the authorities. This they class as camping and this is not allowed. Simply parking is allowed even if you are in the vehicle cooking, eating or sleeping.

Motor Home, Campervan, Estate Car, People carrier, Land Rover and all vehicles and are treated the same in Spain.

John
 
The definitions on what constitutes "camping" are taken in context by many wilders in Spain, and has to be considered at the particular time and place. You have to use your own judgement, and without going into too many examples a typical case would be if deciding to wild near a residential area then you might adhere to all those conditions legally therefore just parking,and merely to give no one an excuse to have you shifted. Whereas if out of site of potential complainers you may be tempted to crank out the awning and sit in the chair outside.

My own experience is that the Spanish authorities be they Guardia Civil, Policia National, Policia Local don't take much cognisance of infringement of petty laws, not until that is, someone makes a complaint official or otherwise.

The one universal no no, applies when wild sites get overly large and the occupants look as though they're taking up permanent residence. Even if they came under the definition of "parking" I dare say there's a law to compel them to move on.
 
The clear message from the Spanish law is that you need to be able to confine ALL of your activities within the motorhome and that means having toilet facilities on-board.
 
Don't be too sure that it is Ok to "park " up and sleep in Spain, Portugal has the same law and I was fined 30 Euros at Quarteira along with about 40 other vans for doing just that, I had nothing out , just parked and had been for 4 nights , I said to the Police Officer,{ she looked about 12 , but had a big gun,]that I was just parked but that made no difference, There was about 50 vans there in all , but a few managed to escape, apparently the Police had been round the evening before taking photos of the vans, had I known that I would have moved on earlier, any way 30 euros was cheap enough as we had been there for about 15 nights on and off, we don't stay anywhere too long, as said by a previous poster, avoid places where too many vans congregate and you should ???be OK. I was told at the time that if I went back there it would cost me 200 Euros.There is a new Aire at Quarteira SDC10072.JPGSDC10074.JPG and it is only 2 Euros a night to stay on it.:scared::scared:
 
portugal has different laws ...trouble is , as in spain , the law seems to be what the local 'law' says it is
 
vindiboy said:
Don't be too sure that it is Ok to "park " up and sleep in Spain, Portugal has the same law and I was fined 30 Euros at Quarteira along with about 40 other vans for doing just that, I had nothing out , just parked and had been for 4 nights , I said to the Police Officer,{ she looked about 12 , but had a big gun,]that I was just parked but that made no difference, There was about 50 vans there in all , but a few managed to escape, apparently the Police had been round the evening before taking photos of the vans, had I known that I would have moved on earlier, any way 30 euros was cheap enough as we had been there for about 15 nights on and off, we don't stay anywhere too long, as said by a previous poster, avoid places where too many vans congregate and you should ???be OK. I was told at the time that if I went back there it would cost me 200 Euros.There is a new Aire at Quarteira View attachment 12993View attachment 12994 and it is only 2 Euros a night to stay on it.:scared::scared:
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That is the sort of place that draws attention. I advocated doing your own thing and parking away from other. I did this this last winter without any problems. The Police were aware of us moving around but didn't bother us as we didn't stay during the day where we overnighted.

We spent 2 weeks at La Salinas moving from car park 1 to car park 2, a layby and outside the marina for free wifi. One morning a police car drew up beside us and I though here we go. They just got out and had a walk on the beach and got back into the car. They had seen us regularly but as we kept moving they didn't bother us.

John
 
vindiboy said:
Don't be too sure that it is Ok to "park " up and sleep in Spain, Portugal has the same law and I was fined 30 Euros at Quarteira along with about 40 other vans for doing just that, I had nothing out , just parked and had been for 4 nights , I said to the Police Officer,{ she looked about 12 , but had a big gun,]that I was just parked but that made no difference, There was about 50 vans there in all , but a few managed to escape, apparently the Police had been round the evening before taking photos of the vans, had I known that I would have moved on earlier, any way 30 euros was cheap enough as we had been there for about 15 nights on and off, we don't stay anywhere too long, as said by a previous poster, avoid places where too many vans congregate and you should ???be OK. I was told at the time that if I went back there it would cost me 200 Euros.There is a new Aire at Quarteira View attachment 12993View attachment 12994 and it is only 2 Euros a night to stay on it.:scared::scared:
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Yes you may well have the law on your side, but when faced with the reality do you really want to walk the talk ie go to the cop shop get yourself a lawyer etc etc. Most just pay up and move on, principles are one thing but common sense is something else in this situation.
You can (usually) sense the sort of place that looks as if the police have given previous warning apart from inquiring of course, eventually they, the police that is, turn up mob handed and irritable. If you've just arrived non the wiser re. previous warning(s) it's just bad luck.
Very subjective I know but the Portuguese police in my experience are more heavy handed than the Spanish, at least the Algarve species seem to be.
 
John Thompson said:
That is the sort of place that draws attention. I advocated doing your own thing and parking away from other. I did this this last winter without any problems. The Police were aware of us moving around but didn't bother us as we didn't stay during the day where we overnighted.

We spent 2 weeks at La Salinas moving from car park 1 to car park 2, a layby and outside the marina for free wifi. One morning a police car drew up beside us and I though here we go. They just got out and had a walk on the beach and got back into the car. They had seen us regularly but as we kept moving they didn't bother us.

John
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Thank you john for getting back to me your pholosphy seems to like mine i tend to stay when thier is no more than 1 or 2 m homes max. and ur right about camping and parking diferance. parking and sleeping and cooking in your vehicle is not quite the same as camping
 
vindiboy said:
Don't be too sure that it is Ok to "park " up and sleep in Spain, Portugal has the same law and I was fined 30 Euros at Quarteira along with about 40 other vans for doing just that, I had nothing out , just parked and had been for 4 nights , I said to the Police Officer,{ she looked about 12 , but had a big gun,]that I was just parked but that made no difference, There was about 50 vans there in all , but a few managed to escape, apparently the Police had been round the evening before taking photos of the vans, had I known that I would have moved on earlier, any way 30 euros was cheap enough as we had been there for about 15 nights on and off, we don't stay anywhere too long, as said by a previous poster, avoid places where too many vans congregate and you should ???be OK. I was told at the time that if I went back there it would cost me 200 Euros.There is a new Aire at Quarteira View attachment 12993View attachment 12994 and it is only 2 Euros a night to stay on it.:scared::scared:
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I got stuck in Quarteira about 5 years ago for 6 weeks, I believe it to be a private estate/area owned by an Irishman who was keen on things being neat and tidy.

It appeared to be a part of Portugal, I think that was the idea so tourists did not think they were entering a private estate.

It may have changed since 5 years ago, so the above may be old news.
 
Hi,
Thanks for all the great tips- do you think I would get away with popping my top on my Westie?
 
janegam said:
Hi,
Thanks for all the great tips- do you think I would get away with popping my top on my Westie?
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Depends on what shape your top's in. Me, when I pop my top I expose a hairy masculine chest, get away with anything!!

Seriously I would say you may "technically" get away with a Westphalia rising roof, and also providing you complied with the Parking and Not Camping definitions ie no chairs outside, no generator etc. But a picky cop would probably define a popped roof as an awning or some other contravention.
Console yourself with the fact, that when the Spanish cops are set on removing M/Hs and the like, they will make no distinction between hardtops, poptops, no tops. Same applies when they turn a blind eye. Quite right too.
 
Byronic said:
Depends on what shape your top's in. Me, when I pop my top I expose a hairy masculine chest, get away with anything!!

Seriously I would say you may "technically" get away with a Westphalia rising roof, and also providing you complied with the Parking and Not Camping definitions ie no chairs outside, no generator etc. But a picky cop would probably define a popped roof as an awning or some other contravention.
Console yourself with the fact, that when the Spanish cops are set on removing M/Hs and the like, they will make no distinction between hardtops, poptops, no tops. Same applies when they turn a blind eye. Quite right too.
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thsi is an inpotrtant issuie i have a landrover and was going to do either a roof tent or a kind of dormobile type top so i could stand up in it, but because of the abouve i havr decided to make it a hard top i kind of hybid truck camper panel van.

land-rover-defender-4x4-1867563150-640x480.jpg

if u paln on doing alot of wildcamping i would go more for hardtop than elevating room , also it gives you more storage full time.
 
The Spanish codification of Motorhome Camping Parking appears to be based on reasonableness, and that the Motorhomer is to be treated as any other motorist, with obvious exceptions. Even to the extent that it's not to be presumed that the presence of M/Hs automatically results in noise, garbage etc.

In the real world however the Spanish police when leant on by the Ayuntamiento or local residents (more usually of the expat community) are more likely to act in the breach rather than the observance of the law, I have witnessed a few M/Homers knowing their rights and waving the appropriate piece of paper combined with tact (they after all have the big guns of course) managing to reverse a police decision. Personally I'd much rather leave a place where I know I'm not welcome.

When the English get round to tidying up the laws around M/H issues I'm afraid it will not in any way be to the M/Homers betterment. Perhaps a case of "beware getting what you wish".
 
what i herd from my son this week as john said any large groups of motorhome,s seen near any beach,s in the Valencia area this summer will be moved if they don,t go they can be fined upto 100 euros so take care.:wave:
 
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