Wild Camping...Talk to me!

[Hobbsy]

Well, you may of seen my other post asking for advice on a few wild camping spot locations! I hope I dont start a row by asking this question and im sure it has been sked a 1000 times and for that i am sorry, but, my question is: what are our legal rights about parking up at the roadside or on one of these wild camping spots identified on the data base? be it a council car park or main road, i would like to know what you guys tell the plod if they ask you to move on as i am led to beleive they cant do anything other than ask you to move on? I am particularly worried about having a drink when parked up somewhere on the side of the road also due to the facts that i might be considere4d drunk incharge of a vehicle??? whats your thoughts on this too! thanks in advance!

 

[GeoNomad]

My experience is outside the UK, so I will leave that part to the others on this list.

In 400 nights of wild camping over the past 4 years, I have never once been asked to move on. Perhaps I have become complacent.

I was once approached by gendarmes in France, where I had been parked directly under a "No overnight parking" sign for several days, and was fearing that the moment had finally come, but it turned out they were looking for someone and asked me if I had seen anything suspicious. My parking was never discussed.

In Bulgaria, parked for several days in the parking lot of a ski area, the police checked me out with some hand waving and a few words of English and then, once they decided I looked harmless, told me to enjoy my stay. They didn't ask for ID or car papers.

I do try to keep a low profile and only stop in somewhat hidden places, as much because I would rather not see and hear the road as vice versa, so I would think that most nights nobody knew I was there.

I think it all comes down to common sense. Don't park where you are a nuisance. Don't do anything to make anyone unhappy about your presence. Should anyone ever ask you to move on, be gracious about it and move on.

Even if it is legal to park somewhere, and someone didn't like it, I would not want to have to argue about it, even if it turned out I was right.

I will be curious to see how it goes in the UK, as I will be there next week for a short stay, mostly in the southwest. I've only spent a few nights in the wilds of Britain on previous trips.

Peter
Peter's Paragliding Nomadness

 

[Kontiki]

The only time in all our years of wildcamping we have been asked to move was in Spain, this happened twice at locations nowhere near each other within a week or two. I would say we are probably more careful where we park in the UK so the occasion has never arisen. I never bother having any alcohol where ever we are wildcamping unless I am 100% sure there is no likelihood we might get asked to ove.

 

[Deleted member 775]

an answer to your first two questions ,one you wont cause a row and two dont be sorry we are here to help . in all the time and places we have wild camped and we do nothing else ,we havent been asked to move on by anyone , even the time we lived in our van .there is some debate on the legality of parking up but as i say we havent had any trouble with the law , as for a drink or two my advice is dont go overboard its not whilst you are parked for the night ,its next morning where the trouble will rear its ugly head i know we and others have even had conversations with the police whilst parked in our vans on a car park whilest drinking a can or two ,they seem to understand that we have no intentions of driving so leave us alone . there is one car park not far from us ogmore by sea there are notices that state no overnight parking no camping and if you do you will be fined 50 quid but there is always one or two vans stay at weekends ,the police come and say your not realy supposed to stay here but if you have been drinking you will have to stay the night so they are not bothered . also i have not heared of anyone being fined there .so i would say drink but dont go overboard by the way no police officer will or can ask you to commit an offence as he will be breaking the law so if you have had a drink he cannot move you on .

 

[Hobbsy]

Thanks guys! I like to park out of the way a bit to, mainly as i like the peace and quiet and i have two young kids, which is my main reason for not wanting to get moved on.

Hey Mandrake, I go to ogmore alot, only live down the road in newport myself! do they park at the beach where the toilets are or somewhere else? I thought they locked the gates and kicked you out up there?

 

[Deleted member 207]

We were asked to move on by a parking warden in Cornwall a few years ago, after I had just lashed out and bought a ticket to park - it had the time it would expire printed as sometime the next morning. There was some huffing and puffing from both of us, but I told him I'd need an instant refund of whatever I'd paid and he backed down and stomped off to do whatever else he did - probably reprogramme the parking ticket machines.

Someone gave some advice on here a few years ago - something like "I'm too tired to drive any further and ask to be given written instructions to drive whilst fatigued" - not too many jobs worths will give you anything in writing, especially if they open themselves to some sort of legal liability.

When I was driving HGVs in the UK (1970s) it was common to require coppers to sign logbooks and print instructions if any were given - eg: "goto weighbridge at XXX". I'd assume that something similar is still possible without being declared an international terrorist.

 

[Deleted member 775]

Thanks guys! I like to park out of the way a bit to, mainly as i like the peace and quiet and i have two young kids, which is my main reason for not wanting to get moved on.

Hey Mandrake, I go to ogmore alot, only live down the road in newport myself! do they park at the beach where the toilets are or somewhere else? I thought they locked the gates and kicked you out up there?

yes thats where we used to stay during the day a lot its realy nice also down by the castle thats nice , but with the restrictions we never overnighted there although a few do there are so many places to park for the night within a 5 mile radius of ogmore we used a different spot most nights that its not worth the potential hassel but at the moment we aint going anyware untill i get the van on the road again cannot wait

 

[donkey too]

I usually overnight at the rougvh car park on the right of the road leading to Ogmore. after the bridge which goes over the river. There is a house there, but never had any problems. A local once told me that a camper overnighting there deters the late night grope and chuck your mc d's/fish shop wrappers out the window lot, from stopping there. So it does some good.

 

[Deleted member 775]

I usually overnight at the rougvh car park on the right of the road leading to Ogmore. after the bridge which goes over the river. There is a house there, but never had any problems. A local once told me that a camper overnighting there deters the late night grope and chuck your mc d's/fish shop wrappers out the window lot, from stopping there. So it does some good.

ha ha we used that one too ,in fact that spot was the only time we had the police ask if we were thinking of stopping the night and advised us not to according to the locals that house belongs to one of the local magistrates ,they dident say we wernt allowed to though . a couple of other places we have used to park overnight are opposit the car park we are talking about now ,is a road opposit that leads up to notton we used to stay about 50yds up there on a flatish spot, there are also some vans tend to park on the area at the bottom of the road , also under the rail bridge at ewenny the layby there , and also i dont know if you know the science park that is on the way from bridgend and befor yo get to ewenny there is a layby there we used that one too on quite a few occasions when we were in the bridgend area we also used the leasure center car park in bridgend with by the way the ok from the manager of the parking dept of bridgend council but i can get a bit noisy when the fire engines leave the station opposit. also if you go to merther maw you will have to excuse the place names as i cannot seem to understand the way they are pronounced down here in wales , there is a rough car park at the side of the river that is nice to park up in you can swim in the river there an there is a nice walk on the river banks but i have never overnighted there

 

[barryd]

Never been asked to move on and never worry about having a drink. Have chatted to coppers in Scotland after 5 or 6 stellas. They were just interested in the bike and van.

I dont stay in laybyes though or on busy roads, usually out of the way rural spots.

If Im drinking (and I might have 8 cans) I wont move the van the next day until at least lunchtime.

The only time somebody pointed out to me that there was no overnight parking was a local at Slapton Sands in Devon one January. It did say no overnighting but we pulled in as night fell in a massive snow storm. This guy wandered over the next day and very pleasantly pointed out that there was no overnight parking. I couldnt believe it. It was a massive car park right on the beach and we were the only vehicle on it! I had even bought a ticket.

 

[Deleted member 967]

The OP asked about the legality of Wild Camping.

The Public Health Act 1937 contains the definition that a Motorhome/Campervan is a Caravan. This Act still controls camping in tents or other structures. This definition of a caravan was carried over to the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960.

The 1960 Act requires the owner of land to hold a Caravan Sites licence and have Planning permission to station a caravan used for human habitation on land owned by him. He is liable in law if he permits someone to occupy a Caravan for Human Habitation and he doesn't hold a site licence. This is policed by the Local Planning Authority.

There are some limited exemptions one of which allows the landowner to have one caravan on his land for no more than 28 days in a year. The caravan is only allowed to stay for a maximum of 2 nights. If the holding is more than 5 acres then 3 caravans can occupy the land but the same 28 day rule applies.

Another is
Caravans used Used within cartilage of a dwelling house
1. A site licence shall not be required for the use of land as a caravan site if the use is incidental to the enjoyment as such of a dwelling house within the cartilage of which the land is situated.

Certain Clubs (about 10 now I believe) have powers to grant exemptions to landowner. These sites do not need planning permission or a site licence. These sites are limited to 5 caravan.

The Police are not involved in this matter unless by parking you are causing an obstruction.

If you park on land without the owners permission this is trespass. This is a civil matter and does not involve the Police.
If the landowner has asked you to move on and you have refused, he has to go to court to get an injunction to move you on. The police would become involved If your refusal or his request was violent, or if there were 6 or more individuals or vehicles involved.

Local Authority land can have by-laws on it prohibiting the use by caravans or overnight stops. These places will have a sign displayed and this should indicate under which by-law the prohibition apples.

Some land owners erect "No overnight Parking" or "NO Camping" signs as a means of defence if the local authority threatens action. These signs have no legal standing.

I hope this answers your question.

 

[John H]

Someone gave some advice on here a few years ago - something like "I'm too tired to drive any further and ask to be given written instructions to drive whilst fatigued" - not too many jobs worths will give you anything in writing, especially if they open themselves to some sort of legal liability.

Excellent advice - and John Thompson has also given a good summary of the legal situation. As others have said, if you are sensible and considerate about where you park and are polite if the police call, then you are unlikely to run into many problems - either here or abroad. It is the confrontational types who get moved on. Remember, it is nearly always easy to find somewhere without a banning notice and away from those you might annoy. In ten years of virtually full-timing in Europe, we have been moved on only twice (once because we unwisely parked up alongside one of those "mobile cities" you see on the Mediterranean coast and which annoy the locals; and once in the car park of a cemetary and two local women objected to our presence - the local Mayor was very apologetic, told us to finish our dinner before we moved and gave us directions to where else we might park up!).

 

[Hobbsy]

Thats awsome, thanks guys!

 

[magbrin]

Our son has an old self build Transit (dark red) and in his time with it (since last September) he has been approached twice by the Plods - both times parked in the wilds of Scotland, once a few miles from Braemar and the other in Galloway. Each time I think they thought the van was dodgy, but with "Dr" as his title on his driving licence, and climbing equipment in the garage they seemed to be easily pacified. In the first case at least they (son & pals) had had a can or two, but it seems that as long as the keys are not in your pocket you are not "in charge" of your vehicle So if you have a drink, hang your keys up, and don't have them on your person

 

[matthew123]

Still have not got to the letter of the law about having a beer in my van whilst overnighting. I appreciate all the comments and good luck to one and all but what if a jobsworth decided to go by the book. Would i be drink driving?l

 

[vwalan]

hi. you cant be done for drink driving if parked in a proper way and remove the ign keys from the switch and dont sit in the drivers seat.drunk in charge is a different matter. but i think if the keys werent in your possession, say in a draw. it could be hard to prove for them. put a curtain between the cab and the living area it could help to divide driving and living areas. sat outside a cemetry now in northern spain ,had a big funeral earlier on . carpark became full. drinking a nice red wine now .no probs, soon be time for shut eye.

 

[defitzi]

moving on

Excellent advice - and John Thompson has also given a good summary of the legal situation. As others have said, if you are sensible and considerate about where you park and are polite if the police call, then you are unlikely to run into many problems - either here or abroad. It is the confrontational types who get moved on. Remember, it is nearly always easy to find somewhere without a banning notice and away from those you might annoy. In ten years of virtually full-timing in Europe, we have been moved on only twice (once because we unwisely parked up alongside one of those "mobile cities" you see on the Mediterranean coast and which annoy the locals; and once in the car park of a cemetary and two local women objected to our presence - the local Mayor was very apologetic, told us to finish our dinner before we moved and gave us directions to where else we might park up!).

with more than fifty years wilding I reckon that just about sums it up
The only place I've ever been bothered was recently in a 24 hr park in Dorset ( I think). Pointed out I had paid and wanted my full whackl of hours was told I was breaking the no overnight sleeping!!!!! ah so but I said I'm an insommniac and go for walks, read book, watch tele all night sleep all day and wow he went ape..... really whoopee. I sat and laughed at him; said nothing more which sent him even further over he op threatening all kinds of retribution! He threatened to call the police -I nodded agreememt and said perhaps he should do just that ,which sent him into more furious paroxyms, until I very politely asked did he actually work for the council and did he have identity papers, since he wore no uniform!
Turned out he did work for the council but was the driver of a dump truck clearing sand on the nearby beach-prom whatever....
Naturally enough , this discovery reduced me to helpless laughter which really infuriated him and when i suggested he should return to his dumper and get on with his task instead of taking time out to bother money spendintg foreign tourists, he went ballistic!
my 24 hours was near up by then so I got out slowly, went for a short stroll, returned and drove off as he went through the motions of taking my Republic of Ireland reg number at which I prodiced a French tricolour,and waved it,before driving very slowly slowly away.
Jobsworth was still fuming last time i saw him in my rear mirror.
Only one or two cars used that car park in the time i was there-it was the depths of winter!

 

[defitzi]

in charge?

hi. you cant be done for drink driving if parked in a proper way and remove the ign keys from the switch and dont sit in the drivers seat.drunk in charge is a different matter. but i think if the keys werent in your possession, say in a draw. it could be hard to prove for them. put a curtain between the cab and the living area it could help to divide driving and living areas. sat outside a cemetry now in northern spain ,had a big funeral earlier on . carpark became full. drinking a nice red wine now .no probs, soon be time for shut eye.

I should think few courts are unaware that campers-motorhomes are also living spaces. In my experfience it is rather unlikely such a prosecution involvingv a registered motorhome, would be approved by the CPS, or upheld by a court if it were senctioned and I doubt if an appeal would be rejected- unless there was evident someone was attempting to drive the vehicle......

 

[matthew123]

jobsworth

Thanks for that. Seems to be a common answer amongst this community. there is a busy carpark by me in the mumbles in swansea where regular overnighters do just as you have said. They have yet to be moved on after been spoken too numerous times by understanding policemen. Go fishing, have a beer , and bed down. No drama. The key word on previos disscusions about this is jobsworth. Thanks for your time and safe trip home.

 

[Deleted member 775]

would you sit in your front room at home and have a drink ,the answer i think is yes with a car or van on the drive .if you have your keys on your person you can be charged with being drunk in charge easy same thing with a m/h have a drink parked up dont have the keys on you, you will be ok the same law extends to a camp site, i have sat with some friends on a public car park drinking cans of beer and been talking to two traffic cops when they have pulled up to pass the time of day and they seem more intrested with the vans than anything we were drinking in fact one of the cops said he was realy intrested when he found out about the ease of parking up free in a van he towed a wobble box and was moaning at campsite fees