Which Gas for Europe?

[Archie007]

Can anybody help me with this please.

We are new to motor homing and are off to Europe for about 3 months, mostly wild camping. I would like to know which gas is freely available in France/Italy/Greece so I can get the appropriate regulator before we leave the UK.

Many thanks

 

[Deleted member 3011]

First you need to check your appliances to see whether they are suitable for either propane or butane and if so what pressure is recommended. Most modern RV appliances will accept either and the regulator is set to an "average" pressure to cope with either.

Either type of gas is available (propane preferable because it will still work in well below freezing temperatures) but you may need to purchase a bottle that is more universally acceptable

 

[defitzi]

gAS


i LWAYS USE cONTINENTAL IN EUROPE the good thing is they are now standardising so that different bottles and sizes all use a snap on connection so no need to chamnge the regulator. The cubn is I tjhinkl thje most suitable (it's 7.5 kg but not sure of coimes both propane or butane or just one of the two..... then there;s a 11-f polastic bottl;e which has a sight guage built in I've found on e of these plaus a cube ideal saves space and always have a reserve ands the near universality of refills in France &Southern Belgium ensures I never run out!
For my small Kangoo "Roo" camper I've stuck with camping gas but it is outrageously expensive for the biggest bottle-just 2.5 kg: however you can get it in almost every hyper market and elsewhere including the B&Q type stores and camp site so it has some advantages but for my (new-old) Vito I'll use the cubes abroad. Do'nt know if they are available in UK as yet if not then THEY reaLLY SHOULD BE BUT... WELL THIS IS THE uk.... LATE NEWS cALORGAS IN bELFAST ABANDONED cAMPING gASS AND SO SUPLIES IN nORTHERN iRELAnd are heard to come by- there is one guy in East belfast takes them to the ROI for refill and so has to charge accordinghly which end the price rocketing up from the already overpriced charge for a refill!

 

[lebesset]

aechie

what sort of gas bottle are you using now [ what size /brand , how big a bottle will go in and how many ?]
when do you plan to go ?

 

[Skar]

I was recently advised to get one of these, it works for me and may be suitable for you.

 

[Archie007]

aechie

what sort of gas bottle are you using now [ what size /brand , how big a bottle will go in and how many ?]
when do you plan to go ?

Thanks to every one for your replies and help. To answer the above question we have room for 2 cylinders. The existing one is a 6KG propane and the cylinder is orange. We plan to go in May 2011 so plenty of time at the moment.

***** -thanks for the suggestion. I am happy to keep things as they are for the moment but may consider this option in the future.

Tony - Yes I think I will keep the existing 6kg propane and add another for European use.

At the moment it seems I need to buy a bottle and connector in France. So my next question is which one (Which make) and where. Also can I buy a connector in the UK, which one and where?

Thanks again

Arch

 

[lebesset]

quite simple really
in france you can't get your bottles filled
in italy and greece I have never had a problem , always someone who will fill a foreign bottle

therefore you want a french bottle , and energas is the one that is widely available and will fit a locker that takes a 6 Kg calor bottle if that is what you have , or you can have a look to see if yours is the same size

énergaz les nouvelles bouteilles butane & propane

as you can see the website lists every point of sale in france under.. ou trouver energas..... divided by departements , and showing whether or not they stock both butane and propane

presuming you have the regulator screwed onto the bottle the regulator that fits the calor 4.5 Kg butane dumpy , 27 or 30mbar will do nicely ...all new fitments in europe for both butane and propane are now 30mbar but all the old 27/30/37/50 work fine ; of course you can get a regulator anywhere in france , most of the supermarkets sell them as they do gas

at that time of year I would get a butane because it is cheaper , butane and propane bottles are identical so you can swop between them if required

you are unlucky , the price of the bottle has gone up...from €1 !

as you can see there is a stockist in calais , just inland from the port , so you can stock up immediately you arrive [ if that is your route ] and save your UK bottle as a reserve for when the energas runs out , so come with a full one !

incidentally , energas is the cheapest gas available in france , only fractionally more expensive than buying from the lpg pump

 

[Archie007]

quite simple really
in france you can't get your bottles filled
in italy and greece I have never had a problem , always someone who will fill a foreign bottle

therefore you want a french bottle , and energas is the one that is widely available and will fit a locker that takes a 6 Kg calor bottle if that is what you have , or you can have a look to see if yours is the same size

énergaz les nouvelles bouteilles butane & propane

as you can see the website lists every point of sale in france under.. ou trouver energas..... divided by departements , and showing whether or not they stock both butane and propane

presuming you have the regulator screwed onto the bottle the regulator that fits the calor 4.5 Kg butane dumpy , 27 or 30mbar will do nicely ...all new fitments in europe for both butane and propane are now 30mbar but all the old 27/30/37/50 work fine ; of course you can get a regulator anywhere in france , most of the supermarkets sell them as they do gas

at that time of year I would get a butane because it is cheaper , butane and propane bottles are identical so you can swop between them if required

you are unlucky , the price of the bottle has gone up...from €1 !

as you can see there is a stockist in calais , just inland from the port , so you can stock up immediately you arrive [ if that is your route ] and save your UK bottle as a reserve for when the energas runs out , so come with a full one !

incidentally , energas is the cheapest gas available in france , only fractionally more expensive than buying from the lpg pump

Hi Lebesset

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. This all looks like my ideal solution except that the regulator (30 mbar) is attached to the housing of the gas locker. The cylinder is then attached via a hose. I guess I attach a second hose with a 'y shaped connector and a stop valve?

Many thanks

 

[lebesset]

even easier ! you see why I asked the questions before , and still had to guess what you had eg you didn't say what brand of gas you had , and orange doesn't tell me the fitment !

all sorts of devices available , T pieces/auto change overs etc , to enable you to fit a second hose [ they are high pressure and known as pigtails to distinguish them from the low pressure hoses ]

personally I would get a T piece with a stop tap to each arm , even though I have an auto myself ...problem with that is you have to remember to keep checking when the first bottle is empty and you have switched to the second bottle , otherwise you can end up with 2 empty bottles !! which is why I now keep the second bottle shut off , and don't really have an auto system , if you see what I mean

the new pigtail is easily available in the uk because it is needed for the the dumpy calor 4.5 butane already mentioned

incidentally , when I said I had no problems getting foreign bottles filled in greece/italy I didn't mean uk ones with their odd threads ...didn't see any adaptors for them ; but a lot of people had an adaptor for the french /german/dutch/belgium thread like energas

you may find it cheaper to look on the internet for the bits

bonne route

 

[lebesset]

what's the point ? as long as you can swop your bottles where you can't get them filled , and can get them filled wherever you can't swop , why waste your money ?

after all , normal gas bottles are manufactured to be refilled ...what else do people like calor do ?

I used to have a fixed tank outfit ...gave that up years ago , too much hastle and worry !

eg , I am just off to spain for the winter , I can swop my repsol bottle anywhere in s.france /spain/portugal ; why would I pay a higher price to fill a bottle from the pump ...when I can get to one !

 

[John H]

what's the point ? as long as you can swop your bottles where you can't get them filled , and can get them filled wherever you can't swop , why waste your money ?

Well, for a start, if you are travelling widely in Europe, as we do, then you cannot readily swap bottles because one brand will not accept the bottles of another - and most peole have room for no more than two bottles in their vans. If you restrict your travels to where you can easily access one or two different producers then fair enough, but we like to have the freedom to roam - and LPG is available everywhere.

 

[lebesset]

why would you need to swop bottles , except in some w.european countries they just refill what you have , where is the problem ?

if I am going south I take a french and a spanish , east a french and a german
never been out of gas in 30 years ....and that is anywhere between 6 and 12 months a year

n.america just take an american bottle ...again between 6 and 12 months a year

in other words , I take refillable bottles , because they all are !

 

[syldale]

gas bottles

hi archie 007 i agree with ***** buy refillable bottles gas low or similar we are on our third m/h with this system a l.p.g book with all the sat nav locations and addresses they free up space not breaking your back keep fitting them in place looking for some where to exchange them just look up the garage on-route and fill up magic swinging dodgy.

 

[Kontiki]

I also think the simplest solution is a single re-fillable Alugas 11 kg bottle, I also carry a calorlite 6 kg bottle for the BBq (this could be used if we ever did run out) With the re-fillable you can just top it up anytime without having to worry about overfilling that might happen with a normal bottle. We know that under normal use the 11 kg bottle will last 22 days so it is just a case of topping it up after a couple of weeks to be on the safe side. Only place where there might be problems are Spain where there aren't as many filling stations for LPG.

As for wasting money I don't see where that comes in If you fit a re-fillable cylinder you can take it out of the van if you change vans to use on the next one. In 2 years we have used 224 litres (about 110 kgs) average cost works out around 50p a litre.

 

[Nosha]

I may be wrong, but I thought Camping Gaz cylinders are available in most EU countries; they're small but very light. I'm thinking of the ones with the screw on top regulator 807? (About 4kg).

 

[Kontiki]

Camping Gaz is probably the most expensive option of LPG. It is also butane which can be a problem if you are winter camping

 

[John H]

why would you need to swop bottles , except in some w.european countries they just refill what you have , where is the problem ?

if I am going south I take a french and a spanish , east a french and a german
never been out of gas in 30 years ....and that is anywhere between 6 and 12 months a year

n.america just take an american bottle ...again between 6 and 12 months a year

in other words , I take refillable bottles , because they all are !

They are, of course, all refillable because at some stage they are re-filled BUT Calor etc tell you that they should not be refilled on the forecourt but exchanged. This may simply be a way of getting more money out of you BUT what if you have an accident after refilling? Your insurance company will at least pay you less than if you had obeyed the rules or at worse nothing at all. I would far rather have a valid insurance policy than slightly cheaper gas. Also, I have seen people re-filling exchange bottles and it can be frightening. One guy filled it until no more would go in and then, because you are not supposed to have completely full bottles, stuck a stick in the valve until he had judged that enough had been released.

Just because something is possible doesn't make it wise.

 

[lebesset]

what has your insurance got to do with taking your bottle to someone and having it refilled ?
frankly it is safer to take an empty bottle and put in a measured quantity than to rely on a cut out valve ! I have had the valve fail 3 times and got filled too much

the refillable bottles referred to are just normal bottles with a valve

petrol is far more volatile than LPG ...have you ever put petrol in a vehicle , far more dangerous

if you fill a lpg bottle to the top the pressure will be approx 10 bar , and the design pressure is 30 bar with an operating pressure of 15 bar ; the danger comes if liquid goes up the pipe to your appliances , which is why you shouldn't overfill

if you don't know your 2 times table , and can't read , filling gas bottles is dangerous
otherwise it is one of the safer things to do , millions are filled every day ...you think that people who operate lpg pumps don't know what they are doing ? that they can't fill your bottles safely ?

 

[John H]

what has your insurance got to do with taking your bottle to someone and having it refilled ?

Let me explain it slowly. If you do not follow the manufacturer's instructions and then have an accident, your insurance company will have a let out - BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT FOLLOWED THE INSTRUCTIONS. It doesn't matter whether you are the world's leading expert on gas, if you give them a let out they will take it. Clear now?

 

[lebesset]

let me be absolutely clear ; if I take a bottle somewhere to have it filled they take responsibility
and stating otherwise is erroneous