Which battery

[Nabsim]

It'll be Bosch/Varta powerframe for me next time. The pair of Banners I have are still serving me well but it's a real nuisance to keep having to check the levels (they're not sealed batteries).
As I'm now qualified for a bus pass, it doesn't take a brain the size of a planet to realise that the ridiculously expensive lithium ion batteries are not going to make economic sense for me.

That would depend on your power requirements, if you use a lot of power they become much more viable. Lots of folks can manage without though

 

[trevskoda]

The engine will charge a small m/cycle battery no bother,it should have a charging coil and rectifer,there may be a outlet olug or two terminals on rectifer.

 

[Sharpie]

Be careful plugging stuff into the "lighting coil" of an outboard, even with a rectifier. They are usually unregulated so can boil a small battery and even blow up electronics attached to it.

My small15 Hp yamaha for example has a large 70Ah wet battery which requires regular topping up with distilled water during the season, and I've seen voltages over 16V across it with the engine running.

 

[Greytop]

It certainly confuses me when a manufacturer specifies the number of charge cycles ie. 200. To a Motorhome owner this is irrelevant to know this figure. What we need to know is how it behaves in real life in a Motorhome. Off grid for a period of time maybe only one night, then move on whilst re-charging the leisure battery at the same time. Sometimes a few days and again driving off at the same time re-charging the battery. Maybe even a couple of nights on electric hook up then move on. If those events are classified as cycles then my leisure battery would only last a year. Where in reality my Elecsol battery has lasted nearly 8 years using it as described above. Also what about the many people with solar chargers.

 

[harrow]

It certainly confuses me when a manufacturer specifies the number of charge cycles ie. 200. To a Motorhome owner this is irrelevant to know this figure. What we need to know is how it behaves in real life in a Motorhome. Off grid for a period of time maybe only one night, then move on whilst re-charging the leisure battery at the same time. Sometimes a few days and again driving off at the same time re-charging the battery. Maybe even a couple of nights on electric hook up then move on. If those events are classified as cycles then my leisure battery would only last a year. Where in reality my Elecsol battery has lasted nearly 8 years using it as described above. Also what about the many people with solar chargers.

And do the manufacturers tell the truth

 

[trevskoda]

Be careful plugging stuff into the "lighting coil" of an outboard, even with a rectifier. They are usually unregulated so can boil a small battery and even blow up electronics attached to it.

My small15 Hp yamaha for example has a large 70Ah wet battery which requires regular topping up with distilled water during the season, and I've seen voltages over 16V across it with the engine running.

The more expensive regulators have a zener heat blead which will stop damamge,small outboards put out very little power so a smallish battery will be ok.

 

[Sharpie]

My little 15 horse yamaha has a very impressive charging coil, with the yamaha rectifier it can deliver a lot of unregulated power and boil a battery dry quite quickly. If that actually happened it could be disastrous for anything else connected.

Revs go up so does voltage and current, the battery is the regulator, and just takes the excess by electrolysing it, hence regular checks, sensible routing of the vent tube, and top ups of the big wet cell battery. It's really not a great way to do things.

Think about using a little motorbike AGM battery that on paper meets all your needs? Well forget it, it will be destroyed PDQ. Personal experience.

I am searching for a way to tame it down, but haven't found a solution yet, just keep topping up the big battery with distilled water. That's good enough for the time being.

If anyone makes a proper charger that connects to an outboard motor I'd like to hear about it,

 

[trevskoda]

The one on it is good ,you just require a regulated rectifier unit,on ebay there are ones for m/bikes and they can be used,also you could burn of excess lecy running something else.

 

[QFour]

This is for an open dingy that has to be dragged up and down a beach. The last thing you want to be doing is adding yet more electronics. Salt water really plays havoc with electronics so use the KISS principle and you will not go far wrong. LifeO4 battery would work just build it in a sealed camera box which is what I did for my bike. It maybe cheaper just to buy a battery for a motorbility scooter and use a sealed box for it.

 

[trevskoda]

This is for an open dingy that has to be dragged up and down a beach. The last thing you want to be doing is adding yet more electronics. Salt water really plays havoc with electronics so use the KISS principle and you will not go far wrong. LifeO4 battery would work just build it in a sealed camera box which is what I did for my bike. It maybe cheaper just to buy a battery for a motorbility scooter and use a sealed box for it.

Two wires not much weight,yes a we gel battery would be ok.

 

[Sharpie]

Two wires not much weight,yes a we gel battery would be ok.

Or maybe not. I tried that with my 15 hp Yamaha and it didn't go well. I only need the battery for starting duty, operating the power trim, and a minimal amount of electronics, so lugging around the 70Ah wet battery originally installed seemed silly. I thought I knew better and put in an AGM motorbike battery instead. Well I was wrong. It only lasted a couple of long runs before it had electrolysed all the acid, thankfully it vented rather than exploded with the pressure.

The charging output of small outboards is typically just a coil excited by the magnets on the flywheel that also excite the ignition. Either output as rather rough AC to power e.g a masthead light, or put through a bridge rectifier to deliver some very choppy looking "DC" to charge a battery. All varying with engine revs. They are what they are. Anything better would just add complexity and cost.

That motorbike "regulator" might work, AFAIK they just clamp the voltage to a sensible level and burn the excess power off as heat, which offends my engineers instincts. But then they need airflow, see the cooling fins ? You can't put them in a sealed box. That's not going to work on a boat in a marine environment, dinghy or something bigger like mine. If it lasted a season before corroding to bits I'd be surprised. Maybe you could find space to put it inside the engine cowling, protect it but no airflow there either except for the engine air intake, actually more likely to cook it. Anyway I couldn't it's absolutely packed with beautifully engineered components.

The 5 hp yamaha for the rubber boat also has the same "lighting coil" output and the same connector, but I've never used it. I expect it would be less pokey than that of the 15 hp on the mother ship, maybe a small motorbike battery could cope with that, I don't know and don't have a need.

I could make a very good efficient regulator myself, I have the knowledge and skills and know exactly how to do it, but I'd rather just buy one if they exist. Otherwise there might be a small business opportunity to exploit, if there was any demand. But they would not be inexpensive, for a properly marinised product, with distribution, advertising, backup and warranty, even if people recognised that they were a good thing and bought them.

Meanwhile the big heavy wet battery is back in, bottle of distilled water to regularly top it up, it'll do.

Sorry if none of that was any help. I'd just say, take a charged up battery, suitably sized for whatever gadgets you want to connect, when you go out in your dinghy, and charge it up again when you get back home. Connecting it to the motor is a nice idea but it is a very crude arrangement on small outboards.

 

[trevskoda]

Those re regulators will be ok under the hood,there for genys of 100w output,from memeory you will get about max 30 ish watts from yam,they are the same components as the parsun engines i am agent for,i also work on other engines except susy and honda as there total crap.

 

[Sharpie]

Those re regulators will be ok under the hood,there for genys of 100w output,from memeory you will get about max 30 ish watts from yam,they are the same components as the parsun engines i am agent for,i also work on other engines except susy and honda as there total crap.

So you say. I have a different opinion, The Parsuns are a Chinese copy of the most excellent Yamahas, or maybe Mariners, and no doubt work, but I wouldn't touch one with a sh***y stick, when I am on the water I want and need something dependable, built to the highest standards, with local dealer backup which for me means a Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, Mariner or Tohatsu etc. All decent. Not crap. I happen to like Yamaha, but I don't dislike the others.

Your Parsuns may be quite decent, but they are just a Chinese knockoff of a Yamaha, no original thinking. I prefer the real deal made in Japan, and am prepared to pay for it, as a long term investment. Plenty of them still going sweetly after 20 years use with only routine maintenance in quite hard use, all service parts readily available. I have my two and I don't foresee a need to replace either of them for a long time, if ever. I've also had a 70 hp Suzuki which also was excellent, quite the best thing available at the time. If I took say a Parsun into my proper boaty place and asked them to look at it I'd soon be given short thrift.

I actually use these things on a regular basis, as do friends, and we do know a bit about which are good, and which are not so good.

 

[trevskoda]

Just for you,all engines are made in china except honda,are engines are a USA backed firm,who are also second biggest maker of gen sets and water pumps,engines are copy of yam and toyhatsu.
Toyhatsu mariner and merc are the same engine mainly up to 30hp,a friend of mine is the merc dealer for N Ireland, in 12 years of sales i have only had a few warrenty jobs, 9 times out of ten its folks who wreck engines of all makes,starting out of water,wrong fuel or mix,fuel full of water etc.
What i will say is the paint work is poor if used in salt water ,problem is its a ppg system from USA which is not for salty water,fresh water they fine.

 

[Sharpie]

I'm surprised to hear that you have been distributing Parsuns for 12 years, I didn't think they'd been on the market that long but I expect I am wrong about that.

As I said, I daresay they are decent, the small ones being originally a copy of a proven design. Perhaps they have moved on from just copying others and are now a force to be reckoned with. FWIW I am absolutely certain that my Yamahas were made in Japan, I bought them quite a few years ago. Maybe that has since changed. They have done a lot of work, and they are still in excellent condition, used regularly and looked after properly, by me.

Anyone can destroy an outboard of whatever make very quickly by incompetent use, or plain neglect.

If someone doesn't know how to do it themselves they should at least get the local establishment to service them every year. Where I use mine there are two good ones, one doing Suzuki, one for Yamaha, with good spares holdings. So that's pretty much all that you will see in that part of North Norfolk. At this time of year their workshops are full of their customers' motors stacked up to be worked through ready for the coming season. They know them intimately and have seen pretty much every problem. They would be reluctant to mess with other brands, and specifically do not compete with each other. Not a Parsun to be seen.

Look after one and you should expect many years of good service, by when differences in the purchase price will have long been forgotten. I have even been lent a selection of propellers of different pitches and a rev. counter to fine tune my setups, all part of the service, which made a huge difference, and they appreciated my feedback. The standard one on our Terhi side console boat for example wasn't ideal and a bit of experimentation gave better results, I think that's what they now fit them with, they only cost about £30, but you can also destroy one pretty quickly around there if you are casual and the rubber bushings can only also only take so much abuse before they start slipping, even if you haven't already trashed the blades.

These aren't like car engines that very rarely run flat out for long periods, when appropriately sized they work hard for long periods and are designed to do so. As well as tick over for long periods when e.g. fishing. They have a hard life in harsh conditions, in a region where a failure could rapidly turn into a disaster. Getting over the bars, then back up the creeks against an outgoing tide makes you appreciate dependability and a well maintained motor. I've lost count of how many people I've had to rescue with a tow. Some are appreciative and even buy me a pint afterwards, but you'd be surprised how many are not, ungrateful so and soes, either just failed or simply run out of petrol doh. Mine have to work hard, for long periods, most outings.

Others may not have the same use case and other things will do, but I am quite conservative when it comes to boaty things and stick with what I know I can trust.

Sure fresh water use is much more benign, but that's not where I use them, it's in the sea.

Actually I have three, a 5hp 2 stroke, a 15 hp 2 stroke (superb) and my GF's much heavier 15 hp 4 stroke, all Yamaha, the 2 strokes having been banned from sale some years ago, otherwise it would have been another 2 stroke. The largest 4 stroke that is still manageable for one strong person to take on and off is probably a 9.9. The small air cooled Hondas are indeed dire, but the bigger ones good.

I do know about the Tohatsu/Mariner/Mercury arrangement for the small motors, AFAIK they all come out of the same factory, wherever that might be nowadays. I think they are good too. And you can really tune up a bigger Tohatsu 2 stroke to remarkable levels, if you can still find a good second hand one. Actually buying a second hand outboard is a big risk, good ones are rarely offered unless there is a good reason to sell them, otherwise they might have problems and the owner just wants rid. I certainly wouldn't let a good one go unless I really didn't have a use for it anymore.

When you step up to big engines the likes of Johnson and Evinrude make some very advanced ones, as do others, and I think that they are still American designed and made. If I needed another big one it might be one of these, a 2 stroke supercharged job, but they are very complex, not something I could look after myself, I'd need a to pay a really competent dealer to do that for me. Even the big Suzuki 70 hp needed plugging into a laptop for a thorough checkout, and that was quite a few years ago. A couple of problems detected early that way, nothing serious, it was a good motor IMO.

I was very fond of a small 2 cylinder 2 stroke 4hp Johnson, a very sweet little thing that weighed nothing, lovely engineering, that I would probably still be running now if it hadn't been stolen after I'd had it for ten years.

I wish you well with your distribution, I'm sure you know far more about this stuff than me and am sure that you have confidence in your products which do seem to be more varied than when I last looked at them, it is always good to have a choice at every price point. I'll look again if/when I need another new outboard but I hope that won't be for a few years yet.

Cheers.

 

[trevskoda]

The big j/evinrudes went bust many years back because of poor workmanship,the fuel injection ones failed big time putting there lights out,noone her would buy them esp there to old also.
I have had many of the 2 cyl evenrude 4hp engines,they to were crap and coils burst open after a few years,they are also old,later they bought what looked like toyhatsu 2.3 singles but in fact were parson power heads fitted to there later legs.
Mercury are by fare the top engine here and many boats use them,also only a few top men here working on engines and very few sales between us as folk here never bring them back for servicing,same as cars here,most are dumped or as you say sold on when faulty to unsuspecting newbies who get bitten.
The yam agency closed years back after being sold on to nevil johnson lawnmower co which soon found out sales were slow so gave up.
Also apart from merc and parsun very few spairs are held in stock,hence many are dumped when they stop,no one fixes or knows anything here,cars are the same after about 3/4 years.