What's up with the UK?

Biggarmac

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Perhaps you should take a look at the campra posts on here.
Possibly even join in.
Last I heard they had over 5000 members, and seem to be influential in whats happening in the highlands.
CAMpRA now have over 13k members. Highland council are encouraging anyone with a bit of spare land to provide facilities for Motorcaravans.
For those of you who don't use facebook CAMpRA now have a working website. www.campra.org.uk.
 

Fisherman

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CAMpRA now have over 13k members. Highland council are encouraging anyone with a bit of spare land to provide facilities for Motorcaravans.
For those of you who don't use facebook CAMpRA now have a working website. www.campra.org.uk.
I have been on the website.
The standard letters are a useful tool.
Heres hoping they can create a positive momentum towards common sense.
Something sadly lacking towards us in this country right now
 
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trevskoda

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Try opening up land here and the council will be round with their henchmen within days, never mind folks getting a petition going to stop you.
I have had them here because i have a caravan for storage and had two cars and van on drive, there rules state one car boat or caravan, i told them where to go before i got nasty, and never heard from them again.
 

yorkieowl

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The French pitch lifestyle way above business, government and money. They are so proud of their towns and villages they provide places for travellers to visit and stay with welcoming facilities. Most English people would be horrified to have 6 motorhomes pitched up close to their castle.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with your first sentence. Money being the main one. Why provide a cheap parking space when you can force motorhomers to use an overpriced campsite? Even with all the anti motor home hype with Covid, sales have gone through the roof so it’s still not stopping people wanting to follow the ‘dream’. Unfortunately I think more full timers than ever will be doing it through necessity, and councils etc don’t want ‘that sort’ cluttering up car parks. Just my opinion mind.
 

Fisherman

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I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with your first sentence. Money being the main one. Why provide a cheap parking space when you can force motorhomers to use an overpriced campsite? Even with all the anti motor home hype with Covid, sales have gone through the roof so it’s still not stopping people wanting to follow the ‘dream’. Unfortunately I think more full timers than ever will be doing it through necessity, and councils etc don’t want ‘that sort’ cluttering up car parks. Just my opinion mind.
The problems with this are manifold.
First there are not enough campsites to take us all.
Most Campsites are only open 6 months of the year.
Councils don’t need to provide anything that is not already there.
The vast majority of carparks are empty at night.
The problem is not lack of carparks, but a lack of available carparks due to barriers and signage, most of which is completely unnecessary and unacceptable.
If things don't change eventually folk may start to withdraw from buying Motorhomes, creating a loss of several billion to HM treasury, and additional unemployment.
Cost is almost a non issue, it’s attitudes towards us that have to change, and changing attitudes costs nothing.
 

yorkieowl

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The problems with this are manifold.
First there are not enough campsites to take us all.
Most Campsites are only open 6 months of the year.
Councils don’t need to provide anything that is not already there.
The vast majority of carparks are empty at night.
The problem is not lack of carparks, but a lack of available carparks due to barriers and signage, most of which is completely unnecessary and unacceptable.
If things don't change eventually folk may start to withdraw from buying Motorhomes, creating a loss of several billion to HM treasury, and additional unemployment.
Cost is almost a non issue, it’s attitudes towards us that have to change, and changing attitudes costs nothing.
Not enough campsites - at present - but plenty of farmers/landowners needing (or wanting), to diversify, and this gives them the perfect opportunity.
 

Fisherman

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Not enough campsites - at present - but plenty of farmers/landowners needing (or wanting), to diversify, and this gives them the perfect opportunity.
Most farms are in rural locations.
Most of the problems posters are having are with regards to urban locations.
And urban locations are less well served by campsites.
If some farmers wish to provide campsites or CLs, that would be helpful.
But ultimately what’s required are more locations in urban areas.
Up here there is no shortage of locations in rural Scotland.
 

Val54

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Richard it’s not just the French it’s basically the rest of the free world. The whole of Europe, America, Australia, New Zealand and others don’t have our attitudes.
I suspect if someone in these countries wanted to stop us from parking it would be made more difficult, and their actions would have to be accountable. we keep hearing it’s because of travellers, well all these countries have the same issues.
Basically we have to stop being treated as a problem, and sadly some of us have to learn how to behave. But in saying that our behaviour is no worse and possibly better than others who use these facilities.
It is true that most european countries have issues with travellers, but to simply classify these as being the same misses a fundamental point. Using France as the current "ideal" provider of Aires, the attitude to travellers in the general population is basically the same as in the UK. However the French deal with traveller incursions in a very different manner. At one extreme, deportation of "Roma" is not uncommon whilst municipalities of more than 5000 population have a legal requirement to provide what we would call a transit site. Travellers are not allowed to exceed 3% of the municipalities's population and must stop at designated "transit sites". Unlike in the UK, travellers stopping anywhere other than a designated site can be moved on with no further recourse. I'm not advocating the French approach, but it does explain why they feel able to provide "aires" in the knowledge that French law will deal robustly and quickly with traveller incursions. In the UK our response is usually height barriers; Scotland, particularly the Highlands can hopefully be more open to providing facilities as traveller issues are not as prevalent.
 

Fisherman

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It is true that most european countries have issues with travellers, but to simply classify these as being the same misses a fundamental point. Using France as the current "ideal" provider of Aires, the attitude to travellers in the general population is basically the same as in the UK. However the French deal with traveller incursions in a very different manner. At one extreme, deportation of "Roma" is not uncommon whilst municipalities of more than 5000 population have a legal requirement to provide what we would call a transit site. Travellers are not allowed to exceed 3% of the municipalities's population and must stop at designated "transit sites". Unlike in the UK, travellers stopping anywhere other than a designated site can be moved on with no further recourse. I'm not advocating the French approach, but it does explain why they feel able to provide "aires" in the knowledge that French law will deal robustly and quickly with traveller incursions. In the UK our response is usually height barriers; Scotland, particularly the Highlands can hopefully be more open to providing facilities as traveller issues are not as prevalent.
Travellers are an issue but I reckon they are in most cases used as an excuse to implement actions that severely hamper us. What prevents us from parking in many places has in reality got nothing to do with travellers, and everything to do with a poor attitude towards us. An attitude at times based on ignorance.
You only have to look at the press coverage in this country. Clearly most of the issues covered since lockdown down have nothing to do with us, but we are blamed. We even have an mp who reckons we should pay to drive on public roads, never mind denying us parking spaces.

But I try to be a glass half full man, and I reckon that things will improve.
let’s wait and see.
 

Val54

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Travellers are an issue but I reckon they are in most cases used as an excuse to implement actions that severely hamper us. What prevents us from parking in many places has in reality got nothing to do with travellers, and everything to do with a poor attitude towards us. An attitude at times based on ignorance.
You only have to look at the press coverage in this country. Clearly most of the issues covered since lockdown down have nothing to do with us, but we are blamed. We even have an mp who reckons we should pay to drive on public roads, never mind denying us parking spaces.

But I try to be a glass half full man, and I reckon that things will improve.
let’s wait and see.
Like you I hope we have reached the bottom as far as bad press is concerned but that will depend on what happens next year in terms of Covid, let's hope we can all travel freely and those who have caused most havoc can return to their normal stomping grounds in Magaluf and Ibiza.
 

vwalan

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biggest problem is so many motorhomers dont know how to behave when free camping .
tables and chairs outside .bbq,s . gas bottles outside etc etc front windows blocked over with screens or curtains .
best keep cab /front windows just like a parked vehicle. unfortunately the bad behavior spoils it for the good free campers .
drove up through cornwall and devon today saw loads of free campers actually doing it properly and they werent being moved on .
 

Tonybvi

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Strangely enough I’m beginning to see a change in attitudes up here in Scotland. I reckon that the pandemic has highlighted the problems to the extent that quite a few organisations are looking to solve them by providing facilities for motorhomers rather than simply telling them to go away. See my post “what a welcome sight” elsewhere on this forum, and I see this attitude being repeated elsewhere. Our local paper (P & J) has carried several articles recently which have been far more encouraging than the negative press of a month or so back, including those from landowners offering to install facilities for motorhomers. Let’s keep our fingers crossed that the wind is changing direction for us.
 

davebav50

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Dear Wilcampers,

I'm sure that you, like me, have become increasingly frustrated with the increasing number of signs prohibiting overnight camping/parking. I've long wondered why the British psyche is so different from the French in this respect. It's almost as if it's now on the school curriculum - a module in how to keep camper vans at bay. Whilst the French have a contrary module - how to welcome campervanners with open arms.

I've now decided to start writing to car park owners to ask why the prohibition. Started with a local wildlife trust who have just erected a height barrier over their car park - for no reason I can think of. If that place was in France, it would be the perfect stopover.

Maybe mass letter (email) writing will help effect some sort of dent in this cancer?

Angry from Winscombe (aka Richard)
Have you considered joining the CamPra group on Facebook. They are campaigning for UK Aires. Have have a look on line.
 

maureenandtom

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I remember when I was young, playing in the street, there was always some miserable sods who insisted on telling you to “play up your own end” or similar.
A few weeks ago, we were in Thetford by the river and some children were playing in the river, meanwhile, on the opposite bank was a man, watching and looking disapprovingply with his hands on his hips. ( He or someone wrote to the paper next day complaining about this)
These are just two examples, but, with this seemingly common British attitude, the UK will never have the same relaxed outlook as the rest of Europe to people enjoying themselves.
I've got to tell you this. One of Maureen's neighbours is a very personable young man about 10 yrs old. Pleasant friendly little chap. Annoyingly, during the warm weather his street football quite often spread from the street to Maureen's lawn. Slightly exasperated, in a friendly enough way I hope, I said something like - why don't you go and play at your own front door.?

"Me mam won't let me."


I'm not really a miserable sod and I had to laugh at that.
 

Tookey

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I've got to tell you this. One of Maureen's neighbours is a very personable young man about 10 yrs old. Pleasant friendly little chap. Annoyingly, during the warm weather his street football quite often spread from the street to Maureen's lawn. Slightly exasperated, in a friendly enough way I hope, I said something like - why don't you go and play at your own front door.?

"Me mam won't let me."


I'm not really a miserable sod and I had to laugh at that.
Give him a quid each week to mow it and he might look after it better..........or might treat it as his, unsure which 😆
 

n brown

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the difference between us and the French . [generally speaking]
we are an island race living on an overpopulated island, and have an insular mentality . we have a fear of strangers and the unknown ,quietly encouraged by our lords and masters over the centuries to keep us yoked to the plough .
the French have a massive ,underpopulated country, and can travel all over the place ,by foot if that's all they have ,and not get their feet wet . strangers aren't something to fear, they're interesting . last time they had a ruck with their lords and masters ,they chopped their heads off .
brits see strangers as potential aggravation ,and just want them to conform or go away , French see a chance to make a few quid , have a chat and maybe laugh up their sleeves a bit at the foreigners
 

vwalan

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Dear Wilcampers,

I'm sure that you, like me, have become increasingly frustrated with the increasing number of signs prohibiting overnight camping/parking. I've long wondered why the British psyche is so different from the French in this respect. It's almost as if it's now on the school curriculum - a module in how to keep camper vans at bay. Whilst the French have a contrary module - how to welcome campervanners with open arms.

I've now decided to start writing to car park owners to ask why the prohibition. Started with a local wildlife trust who have just erected a height barrier over their car park - for no reason I can think of. If that place was in France, it would be the perfect stopover.

Maybe mass letter (email) writing will help effect some sort of dent in this cancer?

Angry from Winscombe (aka Richard)
mind maybe you dont remember that years ago m,homes in france werent allowed on campsites .
then the motorhome clubs and manufacturers got together and thats when m,homers in france parked and camped all over the place. railway stations etc blocking carparks etc . that how france got aires.
i remember as a child going with my parents in camper vans or pulling a caravan and not being allowed on campsites etc .
continental frame tents ruled over there then. some camped up all summer and the father went home in the week for work but mums stayed on site with the kids.
they were amazed at uk caravans etc .
spain was almost as bad in the 60,s.
 

Snapster

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Not sure how far back you are going there, but we used to travel round France in VW campers, a caravan and an old Ford CI motorhome in the early 80’s to late 90’s. We used campsites and on a couple of occasions wildcamped. We weren’t aware of Aires available at that time, so campsites ( always Municipal-sites) were what we used and always got a space, even in August.
 

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